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Old September 29, 2012, 03:44 PM   #30
Slamfire
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Join Date: May 27, 2007
Posts: 4,095
Quote:
The major flaw in your conclusion is assuming that oil and the grease being used at the national matches would act the exact same way.
Grease is oil in a thickner, oil is oil, what would make them act differently?

Quote:
I also see no indication that bolt thrust was also measured to see if it had increased.
What loads are bolts designed to carry? How does oil or grease change the load on the bolt? Does that load exceed design limits?

Quote:
Another aspect that you are apparently ignoring is that there were no known rifle failures at the matches where only the ammo was used with no added greasing of the cartridges.
Your only reference is Hatcher, and you are assuming that it is complete, objective, and honest. Something I do not believe. So, what were the rifle failures in the 1921 matches and where is that recorded? I have searched the only database we have, and there are no records of any overpressure rifle events during the 1921 matches. That is an interesting contradiction.

Quote:
If the amp were the ONLY cause of the problem, then there would have to have been other failures in addition to the ones where grease were used - there were, as far as I can tell, none reported.
I assume you meant tin when you typed “amp”. There are recorded overpressure events with the 1921 tin can ammunition, after grease had been banned, you just have to look.

Quote:
Again I believe you are jumping too conclusions without sufficient backing to do so.
1. I have shown that for decades other militaries used greased bullets without any ill effect.

2. I have shown that for decades after 1921, target shooters were using aftermarket devices to grease their bullets.

3. US competitors were greasing bullets for decades prior to 1921.

4. The vast majority of rifles on the firing line in 1921 were so defective that as a class, the US Army decided to scrap them.

5. Millions of moly lubed bullets have been fired down range without pressure problems.

6. I have shown that for decades there were fielded small arms systems that used oilers.

7. I have provided web sites were finite element analysis shows that lubricated rounds do not dangerously increase bolt thrust.

8. I have shown that it was standard practice in the US military to oil cannon rounds.

9. I have shown that lubricated small arms cases were evaluated in the 1950’s.

10. The Polsten cannon used greased rounds, so we know of at least one fielded system that used greased rounds.

11. I have shown that an Ordnance Corp Officer correctly identified, in print, the cause of high pressure in the tin can ammunition, prior to the publication of Hatcher’s Notebook. I have shown that Hatcher was the illustrator for the book.

12. I have shown data that wet rounds or oiled rounds do not increase combustion pressures.

I feel I am pretty firm grounds on this as I am not relying on the authority of one man, but rather my conclusions about lubricated cases and greased bullets came about as observations in the physical universe.
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