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Old August 28, 2012, 02:05 PM   #43
zukiphile
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Join Date: December 13, 2005
Posts: 1,638
EDIT TO ADD - The point of posting on this issue isn't to add heat on an issue of political tactics, but to explore the reasoning behind the positions. It seems likely that people who disagree on this work from different experiences. That doesn't seem like a compelling reason to take any part of the discussion personally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Ettin
that decision also unequivocally affirmed the legality of open carry.
That is exactly correct - it affirmed an existing right under Ohio code, a statutory and constitutional right widely ignored by Ohio PDs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Ettin
As far as the invocation of Rosa Parks goes: different times, different causes, different social, political and legal climates.
Frank, no one disputes that there are differences between Parks and OC activists. Since they are cited for their similarities, those are pertinent to an analogy. There was public resistence to each, and each was raised in public awareness beyond the unreasonable objections of opponents by people who asserted their rights.

Each movement had undesirable elements. Each had people sympathetic to the cause who didn't need the expansion of the right. (I don't carry, and so far as I know Alan Gura doesn't. It is inconvenient.)

If you think it distinguishes the analogy beyond any use that this issue isn't a prominant feature of the agenda at church, we disagree on that point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Ettin
The details, timing, legal background, charismatic leadership and public attitude all matter a great deal. I've alluded to that in post 36 with reference to Ohio. There the demonstrations could work because the legislature's hand was effectively forced by an Ohio Supreme Court ruling.
Frank, with due respect, I don't believe you have correctly measured the politics of the period in Ohio. Affirmation of the existing Ohio OC right was a fortuitous consequence of a push for concealed carry reform, but recognition of OC itself would tend to relieve the political pressure for concealed carry.

Instead, Klein, the concealed carry law and the activism that seeks recognition by PDs who are not always quick to observe robustly the full range of a person's rights are all consequences of the same push to liberalisation.

I have no reason to doubt that OC has had set-backs in some places, but directly attributing those set-backs to exercise of the right, rather than to people opposed to the right itself, is problemmatic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Ettin
How has the public thus far responded to the thus far minimal "civil disobedience" of RKBA advocates?
In Ohio, we passed a concealed carry law.

Last edited by zukiphile; August 28, 2012 at 02:23 PM.
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