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Old April 12, 2011, 01:34 PM   #32
Bartholomew Roberts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 12, 2000
Location: Texas and Oklahoma area
Posts: 5,644
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnero
Surviving bird shot in the face at 6' is anomolous; it happened but probably once! You should not consider an anomoly when considering a hd strategy.
Survivor of accidental shotgun blast to face receives face transplant
Woman shot in face by husband from 8' away survives
Mother survives being shot in the face as she slept
Anthony Swinson shot in the back of the head with .410 at contact distance. Survives by wrestling gun away from his would-be executioner
More "I survived birdshot" stories here

But really, is that all that shocking? The whole reason you recommended light birdshot is because it doesn't penetrate drywall. Is it any surprise it doesn't penetrate the skull or other bones either? If it doesn't penetrate the skull, then all it does is make a horrible, bloody, mess which may or may not be deter your attacker, depending on his psychological state.

And even if you still regard surviving birdshot to the head as anomaly, I'd note that it is an anomaly that is reported less and less often as shot size increases.

Quote:
Better you die, then you live, but kill a perp and your neighbor and unlike the fellow that took bird shot in the face from 6' and was not incapacitated, people actually do kill their neighbors with stray lead!
OK, let's look at this from a different perspective. Two people are shooting in your home. One of them is the person who invaded your apartment. The other one is you. Which one of those two people is more likely to be a threat to your family or neighbors? Which one is more likely to stop shooting and presenting a threat to others once the other guy is stopped?

For that matter, do you think your attacker is as concerned with overpentration as you are? How does that safety outcome look when everything in your apartment provides him with hard cover but he can shoot right through the entire place with his ammo?

Quote:
Gun ownership and employment comes with great responsibility, you can't just shoot up the building and say "well I had no choice"
This is a straw man argument that nobody here is making. Nobody is saying "shoot up the building" and nobody is saying that you don't have a very grave responsibility here.

Instead, I am pointing out that any firearm that has a good chance of immediately stopping a deadly threat by physically forcing the body to shut down is also going to pose a risk to anybody standing behind 1" of powdered gypsum and paper. Your body is much tougher than drywall and it is unrealistic to expect something that won't penetrate drywall to be effective in physically forcing someone to stop an attack.

I think most people would be better off putting their energy into training and preparation. Learn to use and manipulate the weapon well so that fewer rounds are necessary to begin with. Secure your apartment so that you have ample warning of threats and time to react. Look at your layout now and learn what directions are "safe" backstops and which aren't so that you don't have to make that call under pressure.

If you decide you are willing to risk greater injury or death in order to limit the penetration of misses, then realize that even limited penetration loads can still seriously injure and maim people and don't have unrealistic expectations that because you loaded your pistol with Glasers, you can now safely fire at will without regard for backstop. And realize that if you reduce your ammo to the point it won't penetrate two 1/2" pieces of sheetrock, well, chances are very good that your effective range is around 6-8' and even then you may need to shoot repeatedly to stop the attack.
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