Originally Posted by grey sky
Read the NRA armed citizen accounts. Over and over again "untrained" citizens protect hearth and home. Some times coming to the aid of others. Training in my opinion is highly overrated....
Sure, often ordinary people with minimal training manage to defend themselves, but --
 Those stories tend to be very sketchy. Yes ordinary people used successfully used guns in self defense, but we usually know little or nothing about their backgrounds. Ordinary people do, sometimes, have some training. And while it may be clear that some of them did not have any training, there's still many about whom we don't know that for sure.
 And if you ever find yourself in trouble, you have no way of knowing ahead of time what you're going to need to do to solve your problem. (Consider driving. How many deaths or injuries could have been avoided if one of the persons involved was a more skillful drive and better able to, for example, maintain control of his car in an extreme situation or manage a skid or accomplish an avoidance maneuver?)
 No one seems to be systematically collecting information about situations in which an attempt to use a gun defensively went bad. For example:
- A couple of years ago, there was a mall shooting in Washington State. There was a person with a CCW present. He managed the situation poorly by hesitating when he should not have. He was seriously injured as a result. I don't know if he had any training, but if he had, it didn't take.
- We've also seen cases, reported on this board and others, in which individuals made some poor decision, like going out to confront people outside their homes or in the street, and have gotten into significant legal trouble.
 Also, IME it's mostly folks who haven't had any training who think that training is overrated. Most folks who have had some training seem to have found some value in it.
 It's often said that in an emergency one doesn't rise to the occasion. He defaults to his level of training.