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Old February 10, 2000, 12:24 PM   #20
fubsy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 20, 1999
Posts: 1,361
skorzeny,

"Boxing is all fine and dandy, but would you make that same recommendation for a 110lbs. woman?"
....No i would not, and likewise I have seen very few women blk belts of 3rd and 4th degree vintage who could stop a determined attacker consistently either especially if the weight and size advantage is extremely disproporional---you cant remove that from the equation any more than you could the occasional success that one built that way might have...they dont have the strength necessarily any more than a 110lb male would although he would be stronger than them and
perhaps better able. for most people what I said I think still applies. I firmly believe that most people if that would just practice straight forward simple techniques such as boxing provides they would be better off.
""boxing requires strength, speed, endurance and technique. I doubt very much that a small, "weak" woman who trains in boxing a couple of times a week will be able to defend herself against anyone but the weak."
......I should disagree with this? I know no one who trains in many disciplines that having the same criteria would be successful either and that is my point. I believe in weapons of all types and that includes what ever you can come up with on the spur of the moment---im not talking point competitions or the ufc competitions....im talking about your average person trying to maintain a reasonable level of skill necessary to fight with some confidence if necessary. If their physcial handicaps are such that they are most likely to be incapable of handling a physcial attack, they should carry weapons. I worked out with a fellow who is just the weight and small in stature of what we're talking about......this guy has just received his blk belt in the last year...the whole time I would be out their sparring with this guy i never once got tagged hard--he's hell on wheels in point fighting. and he'd go if it was serious but the guy is handicapped by his build, very light in weight small in stature---not much muscle, I would have liked to have seen him train up to some strength instead of all the point fighting....

"I personally train in Muay Thai, BJJ and Shooto with professionals (both Muay Thai and NHB), but then again I also lift weights during day time, do Ashtanga Yoga and am a glut for sado-masochistic punishment at the gym. I am also 6'1" and weigh 175lbs of very little fat. I doubt very much that the bulk of the population would be interested in the kind of training you and I are willing to undergo.""
....No dont include me in that hard work...I had to give it up do to injuries and age..lol...in all seriousness strength can not and should not be overlooked.

""So, for those who are not "110%" dedciated, what is really needed is a "last ditch" self-defense system that relies on something other than strength, speed and stamina. What is needed is a system based on leverage and technique."
...I have a mild disagreement here, I dont believe that is correct. if a person dosent have strength the last thing they want to do is go to the ground with someone. Ive been there too many times and its too easy to smother their moves. Should they no some of it--sure, i would rather they keep them at a distance with footwork and split as soon as possible not clenching unless they have no choice.....using your example a 110 women against a 220 male or slightly smaller? avoid and get out of the area, or carrry a weapon and get out of the area.

""I think that Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu or Shooto fits that perfectly. Vale Tudo classes are conducted in street clothes (well, shorts and T-shirt) and are meant for self-defense and NHB."
...I know its become wildly popular since the ufc's contest's were going on and thats fine, Ive nothing against them, I just question the validity of a 110lb person grappling against a much larger person--they have to know it cause it might get forced on them, but not the first thing they do.

""Boxing is a great system that complements many other arts/systems, but it is one-dimensional. I have seen enough well-trained boxers who got taken down and beaten senselessly by those even minimally trained in grappling to know that it is pretty ineffective BY ITSELF in a real fight.""
....Ive no doubt its happened, I also no its happened the other way too...so what does that leave us...opinions....Ive no problem with the "complete warrior" concept of using ground work, feet hands, jointlocks armbarms takedowns, etc etc,fighting at various distances...including weaponless and weapons use.
The reality for me is this, most folks are not going to encounter joe bjj, or ken shoote fighter, they most likely will be well served with a style of fighting that they can learn reasonablly quick and retain some proficency in without the 3 or 4 hour six days a week training session. Besides when your in the ring and thats dude is pounding on you, its a lot like in the street, its not like some dojo's, your gonna get reasonably good training. but thats my opinion.

""Next time you see boxing, count the number of times boxers clinch. Every one of those times, a grappler can take the boxer down and beat him senseless or break bones and joints.""
......Now this is what i kinda am getting around too, ive never seen a boxer in the street..not the ring...need to resort to clenching. Not once. He is not fighting necessarily a highly skilled person.

Skorzeny, dont misunderstand me here I do appreciate your perspective, take muythai knees, elbows, feet, fist, forearms, whatever else you can hit with...good stuff..how many folks are really gonna train all that in to their workouts at such a rate as to become proficient enuf to use it? I think boxing simplifies it and initially builds enuf confidence to help out,
punching is about as basic as it gets.
.........fubsy.

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