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Old December 1, 2009, 06:24 PM   #108
Frank Ettin
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Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
Posts: 6,530
Quote:
Originally Posted by cptsplashdown
Of course it is illegal to possess ALL firearms unless you follow certain administrative procedures (background check, ID check, etc......)....
Quote:
Originally Posted by cptsplashdown
I guess my confusion comes in at why there is probable cause for an arrest in the case of an NFA weapon, and there isn't in the case of any other weapon, which you must also meet certain criteria to possess.....
The primary reason for your confusion is that those administrative procedures you cite aren't criteria to possess. They are requirements for transfer.

Federal law and some state laws require that licensed firearms dealers comply with certain administrative requirements, like perform a background check, in order to lawfully transfer a gun to the buyer. If the rules aren't properly followed, the liability falls on the dealer. Federal law and the laws of many states permit the transfer of a firearm without formalities in a private transaction between residents of the state.

The only federal restriction on possession (other than under the NFA) is that certain classes of persons (felons, certain drug users, etc.) are prohibited from possessing a firearm. Such disabilities aren't open and obvious, unless you're the guy smoking the joint on the street corner while openly packing heat.

Some jurisdictions may possibly have certain requirements regarding possession (like perhaps the FOID card in Illinois, or New York City requirements -- I'm not going to research the details). It's entirely possible that law enforcement agencies in those jurisdictions may have established procedures for verifying compliance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cptsplashdown
...Not being versed in the specifics of the law, I asked several attorneys, including a PD, for their take on...
Of course we don't know exactly what or how you asked them, and they're not here, so this isn't worth discussing.

And "presumptively illegal" isn't a legal term of art. It's ordinary English.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cptsplashdown
...Sorry, but to me that is an abuse of your power. You are not serving the public interest, and you are not following the letter of the law.....
And maybe someday you'll be lucky enough to be a test case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cptsplashdown
...it is just that I disagree with the assertion that there is a crime being committed, or that the mere possession of an NFA weapon constitutes probable cause. There is no legal foundation for this,...
You're of course entitled to your opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRice.72
...If so, then wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that someone who possess a weapon on the list does so legally?...
Why would it be reasonable for an LEO to assume such a thing? Should an LEO assume that guy he sees smoking a joint on the street corner has a medical marijuana card? Is a cop supposed to assume that the man who just shot someone did so in self defense? Do you expect a police office to assume that the person tearing down the street at 90mph is rushing his pregnant wife in labor to the hospital? I don't think it would be at all appropriate for an LEO to make any such assumptions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRice.72
...The car analogy keeps being brought up, paper work and all. LEO's don't stop everybody,...
The car analogy has been addressed several times, and it's been explained several times why it's nonsense. There's no need to repeat those explanations again.
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