View Single Post
Old February 28, 2009, 08:09 AM   #58
Webleymkv
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 9,867
Quote:
And if an armed citizenry would prevent such tyrannical acts why didn't those armed citizen's resist? Of course, we both know the answers The suspension of Habeus Corpus was supported by the public because the country was involved in a civil war. Something that is not going to happen again. The Japanese Internment was actually upheld by the Supreme Court as constitutional in Korematsu but later rejected and overturned. Also, the Japanese Americans were released after WWII and later paid reparations.
TG, the armed citizens did not rise up and prevent such tyrannical acts because our other democratic institutions were still in place to do it. However, RKBA along with the other rights enumerated in the BOR ensured that the other democratic institutions stayed in place. You are missing my point: I never contended that an armed citizenry is the only safeguard against tryranny but that it's role in doing so is to ensure that the other democratic institutions do not break down and thusly be unable to prevent or combat it. Also, I've already stated that neither our democratic institutions nor the BOR will prevent tyranny if the people are unwilling to oppose it as was the case with both the suspension of Habeus Corpus and Japanese internment. My only point was that the military will not necessarily refuse to follow unconstitutional and/or tyrannical orders as they didn't refuse during both the Civil War and WWII. I ask if you can point out a single instance in our history in which the military refused to follow their order because that order was tyrannical and/or unconstitutional and not because the order were belayed by another branch of the government.

Quote:
However, in neither case was the military used to overthrow branches of government as your scenario implied and all three branches of our government were complicit in the outrages you mention.
The people, by and large, were also complicit in these outrages. Neither the right to arms nor checks and balances will prevent tyranny if the people are unwilling to oppose it.

Quote:
Our government made a terrible mistake by interning those Japanese Americans but no armed citizenry either prevented it or righted it. I have not said our government is perfect (as none is) but my point is that the righting of the constitutional ship was done by our democratic institutions not an armed citizenry which had no role whatsoever in the affair.
As I said before, our democratic institutions remained in place thusly negating the need for the armed citizenry to take action. The armed citizenry ensured that our democratic institutions remained in place to begin with.

Quote:
However, my question still stands if you can find a part of our history since our government was formed where an armed citizenry either prevented or overturned governmental tyranny I would be interested to hear about it.

PS Once again please not the rural myth of The Battle of Athens TN
I've already answered this question twice, you just continue to qualify it because you don't like my answers. No one branch of our government has ever attempted to seize power from the other two because they know it would be impossible to do because of the insurmountable resistance (including armed resistance) from the people. Thusly in order to do such a thing, that branch of the government would first have to remove the people's ability to resist by stripping away their rights. This cannot be done against the will of the people because our other democratic institutions prevent it. Thusly, the rights of the people, including the right to arms, ensures the survival of our democratic institutions so long as it is the will of the people while the democratic institutions ensure the rights of the people so long as the people have a will to maintain those rights. Therefore, the only way that our government can devolve into tyranny from within is if the people allow it to happen.
__________________
Smith, and Wesson, and Me. -H. Callahan
Well waddaya know, one buwwet weft! -E. Fudd
All bad precedents begin as justifiable measures. -J. Caesar
Webleymkv is online now  
 
Page generated in 0.04655 seconds with 7 queries