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Old February 23, 2009, 01:19 PM   #59
Mark Milton
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Join Date: January 30, 2006
Posts: 504
Notice there is nothing in this story about the man driving himself to the hospital...so it would seem the .45 is a LOT MORE EFFECTIVE than the .40 caliber....

>>>>Texas Man Shoots Himself in Both Legs While in Cubicle

FORT WORTH, TX (AP) -- A 47-year-old insurance company worker accidentally fired his gun in his office cubicle, shooting himself in both legs, police said.....
Detectives will wait until the man, who was taken to a hospital, had recovered from his apparently non-life threatening injuries before deciding whether to pursue charges, McGuire said.>>>>

Also notice that nobody has coughed up any incident where anybody took 11 rounds of .45 acp or .357 or .44 spl and had to be beaten into submission with a mag-light.

I can think of at least one incident where a biker soaked up about 17 rounds of 9mm and kept on. I have read of another incident where a guy on drugs was shot dozens of times with medium bores before finally bleeding out.
But I don't know of many more spectacular stopping failures than the ones local police have experienced in my neck of the woods.
For what it was worth, I saw one of those real life police video shows here awhile back where a guy soaked up nearly an entire mag of .40s from a Glock pistol and was wrestling around on the ground with the officer.

As for the Navy Seal deal, back when Seal Team Six was founded Demo Dick Marcinko and the boys carried S&W .357 revolvers. When Demo Dick wanted an automatic pistol, they were offered 1911s and chose Beretta 9mms instead.
They had a problem with the frames cracking on the front edge of the mag well which Marcinko complained about and Beretta beefed the gun up in that area, and he had no further complaints.
Its in his biography.
If you notice the Taurus gun is not beefed up there....

Later on the Seals asked for and got Sigs...

Most of the problems with Beretta slides were traced to people in the military using silencers which put extra pressure on the locking block.
Moral of the story, if you want a silenced roscoe, stick with the Model 59/Hush Puppy.
Last I heard, Seals were given the options of their Sig 9s or the HK Mark 23 .45 pistols.
Demo Dick is big on Glocks and HKs these days.
I have also heard of individual SEALS carrying privately owned and customized .357s....

The biggest problem with Sanow and Marshalls stats is that in the real world, guns don't show the differences in stopping power that paper stats would appear to give you.
And there are multiple reasons for that.
For example, intellectually, we may feel that the 240 grain .44 magnum hollowpoint HAS to have more stopping power than a 125 grain jacketed hollow point .357.
But on the street the 125 JHP has more one shot stops.
In addition to having a larger data base to work with, the 125 grain JHP is probably more controllable to the typical shooter than a full house Keith .44 load and a good center mass hit with it is better than a near miss with a .44.

In theory that could explain a LOT of the .40s stopping failures. It has a nasty muzzle blast and recoil compared to say a 9 or a .45.

Also, as Cooper pointed out of the full house .44 load, from the way it happily whistles through a man, it may not have the same terminal effect as a round that stops in the body and the body has to soak up all the momentum.
That may also explain why the .40 looks good on the ballistics charts and papers, but performs like the .25 acp on the street.
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