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Old July 8, 2008, 10:19 PM   #110
Socrates
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Join Date: January 5, 2005
Location: East Bay NorCal, People's Republik of Kalifornia
Posts: 5,866
Advantages of the big bore snub is that when the trigger is pulled, grenade effect: the flash leave the guy blinded, and deaf, and, it appears a much bigger caliber then it is.

Quote:
Nyeti
"on 357 close range
Wanna know why 125 gr. JHP .357 mag works so well on people? Noise and Flash. Several years ago I was talking about this load with some of the foremost experts in ballistic testing (and they don't write articles in gun rags). These are folks who use real labs, and have excellent access to L/E shootings. Their initial findings were that 125 JHP .357 mag is an "above average" performing round in gelatim testing, but nothing like its reputation. They began looking at L/E street shootings with the round and found an interesting set of similar circumstances existed during shootings with dramatic success. The shootings took place at night, at less than 6 FEET, with barrels 4" or less...................anybody want to raise their hand who wants to be in front of that. 125 gr. .357 mag's will throw a 15 yard ball of flame down range. Can you imagine what its like at 6 feet or less. The conclusion was that the blast and noise was a significant factor in making this round very succesful in shooting people at very close range.

I carried a Ruger SP101 for many years as a counter carjacking gun and a back up. My load of choice was the 180 gr. Winchester Black Talons which I understand is normally a Javelina hunting load. Many of the 145-158 gr. JHP's are excellent as well. All of them tend to be blasty out of the snubs.

During many disussions with true experts, the agreement was that typical human beings do not react well to having a grenade going off in their face. At these close ranges, that big blast going off will generally cause most folks to hit the ground out of normal reaction (similar to what we see when deploying flash bang grenades during SWAT operations), then realizing they have been shot as well helps in performance. Keep in mind that phyisically a human can remain in a fight for a minimum of 4-5 seconds (a lifetime in a gunfight) with any of the major arteries totally destroyed (aorta, brachial, femoral, etc..). This is why psychological reaction is important. Animals haven't watched enough TV to know that they are supposed to fall over and die when they get shot. The only way to be assured of a BG going down like a sack of potatoes is with a Central Nervous System shot. CNS shots need good penetration to make that happen, which is why I dislike the "gimmick" ammo so much.

I agree that the "sound and fury" of the full-load .357 may very well enhance its stopping effect on bad guys; the defender, who is already acquainted with the effect, is left unfazed. (The gun itself partially shades the shooter from the worst of it.) As for penetration, I have seen a shooting incident in which the Federal 125-grain JHP from a 4" GP100 went through the sternum, heart, one lung, exited the armpit, producing a plume of blood, avulsed tissue, and fragments of bullet jacket material which landed on the pavement, while the main part of the bullet entered the arm and lodged there. Was it a one-shot stop? Well, there was no rag-doll-drop-on-the-spot-like-a-sack-of-potatoes, but ALL the fight was gone from the perp, who dramatically changed direction from the line of attack, and staggered away for a bit. Good enough for me to still carry that same load in my 4" sixguns and much of the time in my snubbies. With the slightly lower velocity from the snubby, expansion will be less, which usually means deeper penetration."
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