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Old February 5, 2005, 09:24 PM   #4
ToxicSports
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Join Date: October 4, 2004
Posts: 19
Rich,

You are right about the funds needed to truly do the testing. But I'm pretty sure that many, if not all manufacturers would participate if you brought up the idea to do an all out test. Manufacturers participate all the time in:

Shoot out

As for the holy grail I know that there are many factors involved once someone pulls the trigger but I was just wanting the manufacturers to back up what they state about their ammo.

Yeah, it looks good being shot into a block of clay, bare gel...etc at 10 yards, but what will it do when shot through the windshield and, if it gets to the gel block, how far will it penetrate...etc at 25, 50, 75 yards and farther?

Take a look at the Federal LE ammo line up:

http://le.atk.com/223data/223rifle.asp

The .223 ammo line is shot through different medium and into Gel but ONLY at 10 yards. I understand that 30 feet is the average distance a LEO and SWAT member, other than marksmen, are likely to be involved in a shooting but not everyone gets within 30 feet before they need to shoot at a perp.

Federal at least gave some information on what the ammo can do even if it is only at 10 yards and with the .223. What about their HG ammo? The US, thankfully, isn't a Police State yet so officers don't carry M-16/4's etc. What about the weapon that's used in 99% of all shootouts by Officers?

This is what I am looking for but at longer distances and with other ammunition and different weapons. Such as 20-24" AR-15's & 700Rem's, Patrol handguns, 9mm-40sw Patrol carbines, H&K MP5's, FN p90's...etc...etc...etc. that are used on patrol officer as well as by Designated Marksmen and SWAT Teams.

I'm pretty sure you know that many smaller departments can't afford to have full time SWAT officers or be issued equipment by their departments so they need to buy what they, and the department, are told by the manufacturers and read in magazines, are the best of the best.

I agree with gordo, that would be the best PUT UP OR SHUT UP testing. In order to get the best results don't limit the testing to a few shooting tests with the same bullet. To the tests over and over again, at least several times with fresh materials, and take the averages of how it performed in each test.

I've heard the saying "No two shootings are identical." Not all officers are going to shoot through windshields, drywall, plywood, glass...etc. but sometimes they need to. I would like to see what ammo, does what through what material at variable distances. That's it, nothing more nothing less.

What will that bullet that shoots 16" in gel through different material is shot through the same material at 25, 50, 75 100yrds?


I didn't want to step on any toes but I was just wanting something that is more than a "typical" gun, ammo and penetration test/review that the majority of gun mags do.

I'm not a Police Officer but many friends and family members are. They depend on their equipment to get them home alive and in one piece. They should be able to have the info on ammunition that is more than likely going to kill the bad guy, and get them home to see their kids, rather than what a fancy picture in a magazine/pamphlet or salesman says.

I guess if wanting a bullet that can kill the bad guy in almost every situation (not controlled laboratory test) a police officer may find him or herself in then yes, I am looking for it.

If asking for more in-depth honest testing that is not tainted with free perks by the manufacturers for a positive review, is too much to ask, then I guess I'll keep on thumbing through the magazines, without buying them, while I wait on a prescription to be filled.

TS
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