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Atlan T. Rex
January 29, 2002, 11:26 AM
I’m not a gun expert, so sorry if I did not use the “right” terms. :(

I’m looking for informations about a gun called “mademoiselle” (probable name). It’s a hand gun, but the place where you hold it (the "handle"?) looks like a miniature of a rifle, but surely it is not intended to put against the shoulder, but hold it in the hand.

It looks like a flint pistol, like the ones used by the British sea service on starting of 1800, but the handle (?) and the barrel reminds me a riffle used in old western movies, but much smaller.

I don’t have any pictures of it… Does anyone knows something that could be associated to this gun? Or maybe a place where can I find a strange guns picture gallery?

:confused:

Thanks a lot,

Atlan

Johnny Guest
January 30, 2002, 11:13 AM
- - to try to help.

Have you actually seen/held this firearm yourself? Do you have access to it? Any way you culd photograph it, prefereably with a digital camera, for ease in posting the photo(s?)

Is this a cartridge arm? If not, is it percussion or flintlock?

There's a wealth of talent on this board, and I'll bet someone will be able to help you.

Best,
Johnny

Atlan T. Rex
January 30, 2002, 03:40 PM
Hi Johnny.
Sorry if I don't know the right terms, my native language is portuguese; but as long as I could understand the terms, it's a percurssion gun.

I hold it just for some moments, after a cheerfull lady had pointed it to my face. After I calmed her down, I returned the gun. The gun still fires, although it appears to be an old-fashioned piece.
I think it was not a large-scale produce gun; the handle had some engravings (branches and leaves), everything very well done (didn't appear to be home-made).
This lady called the gun "mademoiselle", that's why I told it was a probable name.
I don't have access neither to the lady nor to the gun, so I can get an image. I'm looking for information just for the sake of curiosity.
Thanks for the attention of all you, and any clues would be welcome!

Johnny Guest
January 30, 2002, 09:04 PM
{b]Senhor Rex,[/b] I can see how you would like to know more about the particular gun.

I'm sorry, but I have been unable to locate any references to such a title or brand name for a firearm. Maybe it is a personal name, a term of affection, for the item.

I'll keep looking for information.

Best regards,
Johnny

Atlan T. Rex
January 31, 2002, 07:21 AM
Thanks Johnny!

Then again, maybe someone knows where to find a picture gallery for strange guns on the net, or maybe a printed catalog?

[]s
Atlan

johnwill
January 31, 2002, 10:17 AM
A really large printed catalog is the Standard Catalog of Firearms put out by Krause publishing. It has thousands of pictures of guns, but plan on spending a day looking for a specific picture! I also don't see any gun with a trade name or model name of Mademoiselle in any of my books.

Johnny Guest
January 31, 2002, 11:03 AM
Member johnwill is a very active participant on this forum, with a very interesting collection of unusual handguns, mostly of the smaller type. If you do a SEARCH by his name in this forum, you'll find an extensive list of beautiful firearm photographs he has posted. It was almost a daily practice for a time. I wish he would post some more. Hint, HINT.

Best regards,
Johnny

PS--Now that I've suggested the Search, I discover that the Search function is down for repairs. I trust it will be reinstated soon.
JPG

Harley Nolden
January 31, 2002, 11:40 AM
Alan Rex:
There are two photos, one attached here and another in another post directly next to this one. Do they look similar to what you are seeking?

Sorry don't have much information on them.

HJN

Harley Nolden
January 31, 2002, 11:42 AM
2nd photo madam gun

HJN

Atlan T. Rex
January 31, 2002, 12:14 PM
Thanks a lot! :D
The first picture do reminds me of the gun, but the barrel is not like that. I tried to create a "frankestein" using pictures from 3 guns to give you at least one clue about it.
The victorian leaves below the image is to give an idea about how the engravings on the handle look like, although they are more sophisticated, with more leaves.

johnwill
January 31, 2002, 01:22 PM
This picture is for Johnny Guest, maybe he'll find what he's looking for in here. :) This is a group picture that has about 90% of my collection in it. It's posted as a link, since some folks won't want to download a picture of this size.

Collection Group Photo (http://www.armscenter.com/johnwill/LargeGunPictures/Group%20Pic%20(fixed).jpg)

James K
February 1, 2002, 12:34 PM
If the name was not actually on the gun, I suspect the woman was just using a pet name for her "pistola", somewhat as people used to call a gun "Old Betsy". Maybe she considered the gun as something of a chaperon.

Jim

Atlan T. Rex
February 1, 2002, 02:49 PM
Yes, I'm almost sure of this now, since no one had never heard about a gun with this name.
And, let's be clear, it's kind of strange a name for a gun... I just consider the hipothesys because the gun was strange itself...

SDC
February 1, 2002, 03:20 PM
Your description of something that looks like a stock, but is too small to be used like a stock has me thinking that maybe this is some sort of "palm" or "squeezer" pistol. Something like this
( http://www.antiquefirearms.com/215.htm ), maybe?

C.R.Sam
February 1, 2002, 08:42 PM
It looks like a flint pistol, like the ones used by the British sea service on starting of 1800, but the handle (?) and the barrel reminds me a riffle used in old western movies, but much smaller.

Can't put a picture up but maby someone else has this book....Antique Guns, Hank Bowman, 1953....pg 57.

Captioned picture but no descriptive text in the book other than caption. Gun is flint, rifle like stock except short, barrel bout 7-8" with belled muzzle.

Caption....
Plainly marked "HARPERS FERRY 1814" This weapon presents a mystery to students of antique guns. Discovered in a Venezuelan collection. It is 20 3/4 inches long and was probably carried with the butt in the crook of a man's arm. No records exist on this gun.

Sam

Atlan T. Rex
February 2, 2002, 06:11 PM
:eek:
Oh my...

Does anyone has this book? It'll be very difficult to me to find it here in Brasil (we write it with "S" here), but I think that's the gun. Most problably, a newer reproduction of it, since it didn't appear to be very old.

Thanks a lot for everyone!

johnwill
February 2, 2002, 08:43 PM
C.R.Sam,

You need a scanner. :)

Johnny Guest
February 3, 2002, 02:07 PM
Don't we ALL need a scanner, especially in this forum, where so many unusual guns are discussed?;)
Johnny

johnwill
February 3, 2002, 02:19 PM
I actually don't use my scanner much since I've gone to digital cameras, though it's still useful for those facts from books...

C.R.Sam
February 5, 2002, 02:36 AM
John, I got it scanned but can't get the load down low enough to post. Will send to you, maby you can trim off the excess fat.

Sam

Atlan T. Rex
February 5, 2002, 05:23 AM
Hi Sam!

Please send it to me, too, at aslobao@yahoo.com.br.

Thanks!

C.R.Sam
February 5, 2002, 10:09 AM
Atlan......definately, when I get it workin.

Sam

johnwill
February 5, 2002, 10:18 AM
I got it scanned but can't get the load down low enough to post. Will send to you, maby you can trim off the excess fat.


You need a program like Paint Shop Pro that will change resolutions of scans. You can also change the scan resolution when doing the scan, which is the preferred method. Another trick is to reduce the color depth, or even scan it gray-scale. When I scan text, I normally do it at 300DPI, plenty to read it. If you can email the picture, I can hack it down to size and post it here.

Atlan T. Rex
February 10, 2002, 07:25 PM
A new question for everyone:

Since the gun seems to be an old model, but created not so long ago... Where can I find names and contacts for people who builds working guns? Not big factorys, but individuals or little groups that may create personalized guns?
I can expect to find dozens, hundreds or thousands of such guys, in America?

Any clue would be very appreciated!!!


Thanks a lot!

Atlan

James K
February 10, 2002, 11:24 PM
There are many gunsmiths in the US, but most customize guns rather than actually building them. If the gun to be built is a modern cartridge gun, and the receiver is to be made, the smith will need a manufacturer's license, which few do, and of course the gun has to comply with US laws.

If the gun to be built is percussion or flintlock, the license will not be needed; there are a number of smiths who do that work.

Try a web search on "Gunsmiths" and you will turn up quite a few names (some 15000, I think) and you can try their sites.

If you could provide more detail as to what you want to have made, we can narrow it down a bit.

Jim

Atlan T. Rex
February 25, 2002, 12:52 PM
Hi everyone!

I couldn't imagine that there are so many gunsmiths on USA!
Anyway...
I just received some images from old guns and some of them are really near from the one that I saw. I'll scan them and post here as soon as possible, along with some comments, so you guys can maybe tell me if there's any chance to narrow a search on the gunsmiths, since the weapon is really a artwork.

Since some of you asked me for the whole story, I'll tell it, at least part of it.

I'll not name institutions here, but, to make a paralel, if I was on USA I would be about to enter a police department, and I saw some things I was not allowed to see, in a government gun research department. This woman was the one responsible for the department; and when she saw me she pointed that strange gun to my face.
She told me that she must have fired before asking me anything, but do asked me who I am and what I was doing there, with a big grim :mad:.
I didn't have time to think about anything, but I managed to take the gun from her hands with a fast movement; and since I was somewhat commited with my future boss, I had the cold blood to told her that she was the one who was supposed to be shot, since there were no security when I entered the room.
Once she understood I was "on her side", she got a little less angrier (still VERY angry, but not wanting to shoot me anymore); I gave her weapon back. I could say that she got very nice when angry, but she would probably shot me if I had said so...;)
We take our own roads, and never I saw her again.
My chief supported me with the little inter-departamental mess that occurred then; but after things calm down I leave the department; since I am more on the thinking side than on the shooting one.

Some weeks ago I dreamed about these events and got curious about the gun, so I'm trying to find some information about it or about a gunsmith who would be capable to do such gun.

whizz
February 27, 2002, 07:32 AM
It must have been the "batgun" and the lady you met was Alfred ... ;)

Atlan T. Rex
February 27, 2002, 12:23 PM
Yup!

A blondie-haired and long-legged Alfred...:D

C.R.Sam
February 27, 2002, 12:41 PM
Sandwich spewed on keyboard...:D

Atlan T. Rex
February 27, 2002, 02:15 PM
Hey, remeber that not all the blondies are young and beautiful!

In fact, I never saw one with these "attributes" on this kind of job... ;)

Atlan T. Rex
March 25, 2002, 10:30 PM
Hello again all!

I'm glad we're back.

Let's please forget all this story, ok? Re-reading what I wrote, I must confess that the story sounded a little silly, and I don't want to enter in the details. Of course it's not just like "ops, I opened the wrong door, please don't shoot me!"...

Anyway...

Sam has sent me some images, and I'm attaching one of them to ask everyone one thing: Every gunsmith could make a gun just like that, but with some changes on the firin' mechanism (? - I don't know the right word in english); to include a drum instead?
My point is: is that possible to narrow the gunsmiths names to a little dozen ones, just the best ones, which could make such gun?

Thanks a lot,
Atlan