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HerrJaegermeister
November 17, 2001, 10:23 PM
There is nothing more annoying than watching someone from my tree stand drive an ATV a quarter mile to their deer stand. They are noisy and disturb the woods, even more so than a pickup.

People, use your feet and simply hike into the woods. That bulging thing hanging over your belts is blubber caused by laziness and overconsumption of food. Sneaking out to the stand produces deer and other game that you didn't know that were there. These slobs miss out on all kinds of sign such scrapes that would be a blur at 30 mph.

In northern Minnesota, hunters will mount hard plastic gun scabbards to their ATVs and ride along logging trails until they spot a grouse. Off they hop and pull out the shotgun, blast the grouse, mount up and tear off into the wilderness. Fortunately, there are new rules that change this on public land.

Here in Iowa, road hunters who hunt pheasants with pickups would actually have better luck getting out into their fields. That big patch of CRP seems pretty imposing to someone not willing to get out of a vehicle to go hunting.


I work for the regional daily newspaper here and was writing a story about the Iowa deer hunting opener in Plymouth County in northwest Iowa. The local conservation officer was tracking down deer hunters using their CBs and pickup trucks to spot animals and cut them off at the next section road. That method of hunting is accepted as common practice here. (Luckly, some hunters did their homework, set up blinds or tree stands and waited for some beautiful deer to come into range.)

The conservation officer stopped one group of bumpkins in trucks, and I asked one fat slob if they had walked any of the terraced fields with heavy cover where the big deer take refuge. The guy was offended by the word "walk," as he lit up a cigarette and waited for the impending heart attack. They only had one unimpressive deer in their party. Sounds like fun to me. They surely fired from the roadway, which is illegal in this state.

Forgive me for ranting. If you are disabled or have a very distant hunting stand I understand. I think ATVs are a crutch for the lazy who would get more out of the experience and would have more success by hoofing it into the woods and fields.

Learn to sneak and stalk, you'd be surprised what you'll see when moving silently.

bernie
November 17, 2001, 10:41 PM
We may both get flamed, but I agree with you wholeheartedly! I hunt on some private ground that belongs to my family (dad & I), and we have 4 wheelers riding all over the place all the time, even though the ground is plainly posted. I have had them ride under my tree stand while I was hunting, and not understand why I was miffed. And they ALWAYS get an attitude when we try to run them off (I spent X thousand dollars on this, and I need a place to ride it). I even had one lady park hers behind my target stand where I shoot. After politely asking her to move it, she did not. When I started pasting up targets she was offended that I might dare make her mover her ATV.

I am sure most of you guys obey the rules, but where I am, most people do not.

Sorry for the rant.

Borf
November 17, 2001, 10:48 PM
or, have we ever seen a "kodiak is sick of" atvs?

I have to agree with you. I realize that there are some people with very valid reasons for running around on those things, *however*, most of them seem to get run in circles so the owner can experience the joys of whining engines in nature.

Just this morning I drove out to the WMA. I drove in a half hour on gravel. I then parked and spent about an hour stalking in on an old jeep trail (no leaves!! no crunch! joyous lack of noise!) *maybe* 2 miles. I heard dozens of squirrels, I even snuck up on a gobbler! Well, his head anyway. As soon as his head saw me he was gone. I was impressed with myself though - and so the stalk continued. I got to the end of the road, continued along the ridge, hung myself out over a ravine and did my best to blend in.

Not 20 minutes later ... bbzzzbzbzbz BZBZBBZBZBZBZBZ and a little 4 wheeled spawn of satan comes blowing into my neck of the woods. Dude stops 20 yards from me and gets off. He lights a cigarette, walks around the area for maybe a half an hour then BBBZZZZZZ right off again.

Did he do anything wrong? Nope. Not at all. I just don't like them. I saw a number of these things around the WMA today - with predominantly stereotyped hunters on them. Overweight guy in bib overalls, etc. I'm of the frame of mind that these guys *get* being outdoors about as well as Bill Bryson does.

Correct me all you like, I still don't like them!

Related gripe - it's about like SCUBA diving when people are running jet skis all around above you.

Subby
November 18, 2001, 12:32 AM
Amen brother.

Sub

Art Eatman
November 18, 2001, 12:56 AM
I'm in total agreement with what's bugging y'all, but after all it's the idiot people, not the ATV itself...slobs is slobs is slobs.

I came just really close to putting an '06 bullet through the motor of a pickup truck, one time. Three guys pull off the road into a dry creek bed on my property, right under where I was sitting and waiting for Bambi to wander by. They unloaded an ATV, and one guy took off down-creek. The other two turned the truck around and headed up-creek--right below where a buddy was sitting.

These two nimrods got out of the truck, slamming doors, looking around, and said, "Aw, there ain't any deer around here." My buddy heard this, and refrained from ruining their motor because he was watching a doe and yearling behind a bush maybe 20 yards from the truck.

My father, my buddy and I met these cretins when they all gathered up and reloaded the ATV. We sort of read from the scriptures to them...Now, under the 1999 changes in Texas law, the TP&WD could take the guns, the truck and the ATV.

Nothing wrong with ATVs, except I'd like to find the button on them that disconnects the driver's brain...

Art

444
November 18, 2001, 12:57 AM
I too agree. Many people view hunting as they do everything else in life; fast, easy, and as little effort as possible. Out here in the West, people just simply hunt off the ATV. The drive to a ridge, glass the area, and if they see anything they use the bike as a benchrest to shoot, drive up to the animal and load it up. Similar to going to the drive through at McDonalds. This is hunting ? I call it shooting. I used to love these fat slob road hunters. All I had to do was take the effort to walk 100 yards into the woods and I had the forest to myself. That is now gone with these ATVs. Now even the laziest pig that wants to call himself a hunter can invade the pristine wilderness. Like everything in our society, hunting has been cheapened. This is the same type of guy that would brag about shooting a deer in his yard from out the back door after he baited it.
I also agree that this is similar to the jerks on jet skis and see doos. You pull your boat into a beautiful cove, start working a rubber worm and some a**hole spends the next half hour driving his loud obnoxious jet ski right beside you. The lake is huge, but they wouldn't feel right about it unless they ruin your day.
The one thing I do approve of with ATVs is using one to pack out an elk. When you have 700 pounds of meat to get out in rugged, steep terain, I can see where one would be a godsend. Note I didn't say anything about driving it around while "hunting" and then using it as a shooting bench.

C.R.Sam
November 18, 2001, 06:50 AM
ATV on my posted land likely becomes my ATV.

Sam.

Borf
November 18, 2001, 01:14 PM
Shouldn't they be STV (*Some* Terrain Vehicle) anyhow? I can think of a whole mess of places my size 15s can get me that one of those things can't.

Art Eatman
November 18, 2001, 01:19 PM
Size 15? Sheesh, Borf! You'd be just really tall, if they hadn't turned so much of you under! :)

Just smart-mouthin',

Art

Borf
November 18, 2001, 11:14 PM
Art - you should see the locals get in a tizzy when I start taping extra toes to my boots and scrawl "sasquatch was here" on unattended porta-potties!

Art Eatman
November 18, 2001, 11:41 PM
:D

Bowser
November 19, 2001, 02:59 AM
Well, HJM, you would seem to believe that "hunting" from a stand is real hunting....

Hiding up in a tree on a known deer route is not hunting. Those with even less scruples have their huts 75 yards from a feeder.

Why not have someone chain a deer to a tree so you can put an arrow in it?

Bowser.

inGobwetrust
November 19, 2001, 09:42 AM
Bowser,

Have you ever actually tried this? I wish it was nearly as easy as you make it sound. I suppose you fish without bait, too? I hunt with different methods at different times and to me, sitting in a stand takes a lot more discipline, concentration, and heightened awareness than stalking or still hunting as some call it. I guess it depends where you hunt but around here it's definitely no piece of cake.

By the way, your statement sounds an awful lot like what the anti-hunting crowd likes to say. Just wondering......

Art Eatman
November 19, 2001, 10:08 AM
Bowser, you're forgetting a few things. Not all hunters are highly skilled, for one--and nobody was born an expert; not you, not me.

Some terrain and cover pretty much preclude walking and hunting. The south Texas brush country comes to mind, with its impenetrable thickets of thorny bushes and trees--most of which is well above head height. Parts of the heavy timber and river bottom country in Florida and Georgia also fit into this category.

While I prefer walking in open country, I ain't real shabby at playing sneaky-snake in the swamps. But I don't have the unmitigated gall and arrogance to tell some city guy who has a total of two weeks a year to get to the Big Outdoors that he's unfit to hunt because he's in a stand.

Regards,

Art

J. Parker
November 19, 2001, 11:02 AM
Well, I'm an ATV enthusiest but not much of a hunter. My shootin' buddy and I take our ATV's along everytime we go campin'.
I agree with Art. It's the idiots ridin' 'em not the machine itself. Like it or not, public land (National Forest, BLM, etc) is for all of us to enjoy. Some folks just enjoy their outdoor experience differently than yourself.
FWIW, I'm 5'10" and about 170lbs so I wouldn't consider myself a lard-ass. My buddy works out so he's in real good shape.
We're always searching for "legal" places to ride. Here out west there're getting harder to find. The squeeze is on. The cranola crunchin', latte' drinkin', tree huggers will probably win in the end.
If you want quiet you'll probably get it sooner or later but until then I'm perfectly legal in my enjoyment of the outdoors.
If you can't stand the noise get out of the woods!

444
November 19, 2001, 11:53 AM
J. Parker ; What you are talking about, is to me, a different subject altogether. Sure, ATVs are fun to ride. It is great fun exploring trails, dirt roads etc. I have a Jeep and a 4x4 truck that I do that in all the time. "Hunting" from an ATV is another matter. To me, it is no different than driving back roads in the car and shooting deer out the window. That is what I am talking about. I don't even have a problem with someone driving an ATV while I am hunting (may keep the animals moving), but again, driving right around a guy while he is hunting is another story, which as you say, has nothing to do with the ATV it is just common manners. Ditto the jet ski driving right around someone that is trying to fish. There is plenty of lake for everyone to enjoy, they just seem to always want to enjoy the exact same place you do; again, just common manners.
To me, hunting is about pitting your prey instincts and skills against that of your prey. Still hunting through the woods with all your senses on full alert. Looking for sign, listening for the slightest noise, trying to pick out the broken outline of an animal, searching for the slightest movement, even smell comes into play with some animals. Once again, for me, none of that comes into play when shooting an animal from an ATV.
Since you are not a hunter you may not realize what is at stake here. In the West, you don't just buy a tag, you have to get one from a lottery. Some tags take years of application to get. For example, here in Nevada, an elk tag is considered a once in a lifetime tag. The reason being that it usually takes about 10 years of application before you are drawn in the lottery. Then after being drawn, you must wait 10 years to apply again which then begins the cycle of applying for possibly another 10 years before you are drawn. If you were 20 when you started applying, it very well may take you until you were 30 to get a tag. Then you arn't eligible to apply again until you were 40 and it might take you until you were 50 to get drawn again. Again, here in the West, for most of us hunting isn't a matter of just walking out the back door. Most of us plan a hunt all year, drive to the area and scout several times, then you take vacation time to hunt............. Imagine going through all this only to have a possible once in a lifetime hunt destroyed by someone riding their ATV where you are trying to hunt. Sure, it may be legal, but the price paid by the hunter is usually way out of proportion to that payed by the guy on the ATV. If the hunter happens to be from out of state, he may have gone through this whole process and when he is finally drawn, it costs him over $1000 just for the tag. It would be extremly selfish and self serving to insist on exercising your right to ride at this guy's expense.

J. Parker
November 19, 2001, 12:46 PM
If both endeavors are legal then I guess we just have to be tolerent of one another. You put up with my noise and I'll put up with the "glares" I've received from so-called hunters. Walkin' around the woods with a pint of whiskey and a 30-06 is my idea of a real class act.
I don't even care to head for the woods in mid-October anymore....it's just to damn dangerous.

J. Parker
November 19, 2001, 01:29 PM
444; I do sympathize with your harsh elk tag situation. I don't think it's nearly so bad in Washington State. It's not an ATV problem, it's a state Fish and Game problem. Don't blame some poor sap on an ATV for a states wildlife management restrictions.
I'm not a big fan of personal watercraft (jet skis) but I tolerate them when I'm out there tryin' to fish. If I don't catch my limit I don't blame it on the jet skiers. Just tryin' to get along in the woods, J. Parker

vitiaz
November 19, 2001, 04:56 PM
My Grandpa uses his...I hope ya'll cut him some slack. He's 'only' 92 and has taken a deer every year since 1919...It's really the only way he can get back to his favorite hunting spot. :p

johnbt
November 19, 2001, 08:08 PM
"Hiding up in a tree on a known deer route is not hunting"

What do you suggest for an alternative? Sneaking up on them while they're sleeping?

Does hiding in a duck blind or behind a rock qualify as real hunting?

John

slick slidestop
November 19, 2001, 09:25 PM
Sounds like an ATV is to some Hunters like Jet Ski's are to some Fishermen A real PITA:D

Art Eatman
November 19, 2001, 09:39 PM
J.Parker, we're in agreement about idiots: "Walkin' around the woods with a pint of whiskey and a 30-06 is my idea of a real class act." I understand your sarcasm...

As far as legal and tolerant, consider this: In west Texas, mule deer season is sixteen days. Is it unreasonable for a hunter to want ATVs to stay home for sixteen days, and go ahead and explore/play/whatever for the other 349 days of the year?

Seems to me it's a fair play thing...

Art

J. Parker
November 19, 2001, 10:44 PM
Art, you make a good point but nothings going to change unless somebody makes it so.
You have a narrow window of hunting in Texas....444 has an almost impossible Elk hunt in nevada....sorry, I can't help you....you hunters are going to have to help yourselves unless the rules change.
It's public land and we're ALL entitled to recreate on it to whatver degree within legal limits.
If 444 had his trophy elk in his sights I'd give him a very wide berth so he could claim his prize but please don't blame a failed hunt on an ATV. Ridiculous.

C.R.Sam
November 19, 2001, 11:50 PM
I enjoy ATVs, two, three n four wheeled. I also stay off of hunting land with them during hunting season.

And I darn shure stay off of posted property at all times.

No problem.

Sam

444
November 20, 2001, 12:02 AM
.....nothings going to change unless somebody makes it so.
True, and you could be the one that does something to change. We are all responsible to make our own decisions, relying on the government to regulate our actions is (as PJ O'Rourke says) like giving a teenager a bottle of whiskey and the keys to the car. This is one of those areas where legality becomes confused with moral (ethical, fair, just.....) behavior Just because something is legal, doesn't make it the right thing to do. I remember a song from when I was a kid that said; No body told me not to paint the kitty, so I did. I am pretty sure that there is no law against talking in a movie theater and if you want to ruin a good time for everyone else I guess you can.
The reason there are hunting seasons, limits on tags, and bag limits is because a wildlife biologist determined that these parameters were the best thing for the animal species involved. The limitations on hunting arn't the "fault" of anyone. They are designed with a long term goal of protecting the species. Responsible hunters have no desire to change any of this, it would be cutting our own throats in the future.

J. Parker
November 20, 2001, 12:57 AM
Stay off huntin' land during hunting season? Really now. Out west that can encomposs literally thousands of square miles. 444; You're suggesting I take up a hunters cause? Sorry, but if you all want ATV's banned from your hunting range you'll have to do it yourself.
Why would I limit myself even more than I already am? ATV'ers and off-roaders are constantly fighting for every little bit of public land that the powers-to-be grant our poor souls. I'm not about to loose any more.
Actually, I don't think this is as big a problem as we're making it out to be. But I'll tell you one thing for sure....I can't prove it but I know I've been "scoped" by hunters.....If I EVER catch a hunter scoping me they'll be hell to pay....

444
November 20, 2001, 01:24 AM
No, I don't suggest you take up any cause, that is something you dont' seem to get. I do expect you to take other people into consideration. That doesn't involve the government, it doesn't involve anyone but you.

Actually, I don't think this is as big a problem as we're making it out to be. But I'll tell you one thing for sure....I can't prove it but I know I've been "scoped" by hunters.....If I EVER catch a hunter scoping me they'll be hell to pay....

I can tell by your anwsers that you don't think it is a problem, and you are right; it isn't a problem for you. You are causing the problem for someone else. If you think you were "scoped" by a hunter then obviously you were riding close enough to him that you knew he was there and didn't care what he thought about it as long as you were doing what you wanted.
By the way, "scoping" someone is totally irresponsible and is the height of being unsafe; however, if you are being scoped, it is way to late to make somebody pay.

J. Parker
November 20, 2001, 01:43 AM
444; What do you want me to do? Quit heading for the woods when deer season starts? Fine, I'll stay home. It's probably safer anyway.

MatthewM
November 20, 2001, 02:07 AM
JParker,
Thanks for stepping up to the plate for the abuse.

Being out in the woods and not having the perfect experience is a minor problem and not worth hating people who choose to use the public woods differently. Leaving trash WOULD be a problem.

I go water skiing and cringe every time I pass by a guy fishing. But what can I do? He should move up to a river area and avoid me. I don't care for the habits of the jet skiers and keep an extra eye out for them, but am careful not to feel any animosity as they have as much right to the lake as I do.

This anti mentality is the same as the one that got all the deserts in Calif closed to off road vehicles. What could be more worthless than a desert! Now many lakes here are being closed to jet skis. I don't have one but am upset over those putting such laws in place.

Many roads in Calif & Nevada are being completely closed to ALL vehicles. How would you guys like to hike 80 miles for your deer? Try packing that one out!

How about someone posting the list here:
I didn't hunt so I didn't stand up for the hunter.
I don't ride a motorcycle so I didn't stand up against the helmet laws.
I don't......
Why won't anyone stand up for me?

Art Eatman
November 20, 2001, 12:54 PM
Lotsa times I've run across situations where I had a "right" to do something--but I chose another course of action out of consideration for others.

If I'm walking quietly along a trail, and see a couple engaged in some heavy making-out, I have a right to continue on, disturbing their "moment". I believe it's far more courteous to go around them, unknown to them as to my passage--or to go back and wait a while...How have I been hurt by having consideration for others?

I have a "right" to drive fast along a dirt road. If I see a jogger or bicyclist on that road, I slow down to minimize the dust of my passing. How have I been hurt?

I've not owned an ATV, but I've ridden back country on a motorcycle. If I'm out purely for recreation, it strikes me that it's more courteous to avoid hunting country, during the hunting season. How does that decision hurt me?

If I use an ATV to reach my own area to hunt, isn't it just courtesy to ride at less than full-throttle, lest I disturb some other hunter? How has my effort at courtesy hurt me?

Art

johnbt
November 20, 2001, 04:25 PM
Wait a minute. I thought ATVs and PWCs had two throttle positions - idle and wide open :)

Is it true that mufflers are an expensive option and that's why so few have them?

Most of my experience is with Personal Water Craft: We troll for fish and the motorized water bugs drive through the lines and yell things like "Go faster so we can jump the wake!" Must be the same fools that surf right next to the fishing piers.

I'll spare you the stories of fishermen anchoring their boats in our decoys, but our measured response is "Y'all duck now when the birds set their wings to land."

John

Erik
November 20, 2001, 09:15 PM
Two yahoos on ATVs ruined this year's elk hunt for me.

I had tracked a big bull ofor a couple of hours. I know it was big because of the tracks, which others in my hunting party confirmed as being as big as they'd ever seen. They were the types who would know.

Anyway, I'm stalking along, when suddenly the sound of ATVs fills the valley. Pretty bad, but not as bad as what follows...

The yahoos stop about a hundred yards or so away and start shouting back and forth. Shouting! I hear the crash of something large about fifty yards further along in the direction I've been heading. I move forward and the only tracks evident are the ones I was following all morning. My bull is gone.

Grrrr.

KYE-OAT
November 20, 2001, 09:56 PM
......Altho' I now reside in the Ozarks of Arkansas, I used to live in Fernley, Nevada. I spent many days walking in the desert .....and many nights callin' coyotes and foxes. I am sure 444 can say the same, the desert is far from useless. You can scarcely notice such a thing without using your feet and noticing all the small things that would be a mere blur while astride a steel steed. I miss the desert and the wide open spaces......the hardwoods have me almost claustraphobic........
I might mention I have used a mountain bike to good measure when the distances to callin' stands lenghtened.....

Bowser
November 20, 2001, 11:48 PM
The latest "hunting" aids include:

Scent blockers,

Deer attractants,

Complete shed type blinds with scent proof seals and vented 20 ft chimneys.

Why not have helicopters spray OC from the air to completely disable all the deers senses?

I've seen so-called hunting shows where two fat blokes get into recliner stands with pots of coffee, wait for a deer and pop it. Well done.


The point of my original post was to highlight that if someone thinks that walking to a hidden stand as opposed to riding to it makes it more like real hunting, they are mistaken.

Guess you like to shoot from you cars too?

Think of what your ancestors did.


And I'm not an anti-hunter. Just because I have a differing point of view does not make me the anti-Christ. Only IDIOTS assume that.

Bowser.

Art Eatman
November 21, 2001, 01:48 AM
Valium time, guys. Ease off.

I also suggest some of y'all go back and re-read posts and think a bit about what was said. There are some "responses" here which indicate a bit of misunderstanding of what was previously said.

Don't go makin' ol' Papa Bear grumpy!

:), Art

DAVID NANCARROW
November 21, 2001, 03:03 AM
Wow-last time I saw a person this riled up is when I asked my wife if she'd gained weight! It is easy to criticize what others do if its different than what you do, or what you think. I think there is an element of danger if you go into the woods during hunting season whether its as a hunter or riding an ATV. I got out of hunting on public lands years ago because of people taking "sound shots" a euphenism for shooting at noise. Bullets can do funny things, and if you don't buy that, talk to John Kennedy among others. Not to say that you shouldn't be allowed to go on public lands, but I would ask all of us to be courteous to others as part of the experience regardless of your "mission", if I read Art's interpretation and too few others on this thread.

J. Parker
November 21, 2001, 10:51 AM
I love the desert. Spent four years at Edwards AFB and rode for many a mile through the Joshua trees on my Yamaha 360 MX. Saw wild Mules and had to dodge more than one desert tortoise. The ravens out there are the size of eagles.
Anyway, I like to wish you all a safe and Happy Thanksgiving. Sincerely, John Parker

Art Eatman
November 21, 2001, 12:07 PM
Yowzuh! Tasty turkey for all!

:), Art

444
November 21, 2001, 12:54 PM
The funny thing about this thread is that we are all saying the same thing. Both sides of this issue are trying to enjoy the same resource. We both want to be respected in our chosen pursuit. We have guys that want to ride ATVs recreationally and don't want limitations put on them and we have guys that want to hunt undisturbed. I don't see that we can't coexist in peace as long as we take a minute to consider each other in the equation and not try to do it our way without being willing to make slight consessions so that someone else can also enjoy the back country of this nation. We still both get to do what we want to do, we both get to have fun. The difference is that we make an effort to think of our fellow man.
Bowser, riding to a stand to hunt instead of walking is a far cry from actually doing your "hunting" off the back of an ATV. This is one of those cases were I think they are missing the fun part of hunting. Just shooting the animal to me is not the fun part of the hunt. It is just my contention that they are missing the whole point of hunting. They want to take the easist possible way. I will admit that part of this has to do with my own ego. It really burns me to work like a dog to take a big game animal only to find that someone else accomplished the same thing without any effort or use of skill. But, I don't nessessarily think they shouldn't have the right to do that.
We all have a lot to be thankful for tomorrow. We live in a country where we can ride ATVs and hunt. We live in a country where we have the leisure time to enjoy these diversions. We live in a country where we make enough money to satisfy our basic needs with enough left over to pursue our hobbies. Let's not forget that tomorrow or any other day of the year. I hope you all have a great Thanksgiving holiday. I hope you all have a family to enjoy it with. I hope you all stay safe. I will be spending the day with my second family at work. Hopefully everyone will avoid any unfortunate incident that requires my help; for both of us. :)

Art Eatman
November 21, 2001, 04:31 PM
My son lives in southern Germany; I've visited a couple of times.

ATV? Thou shalt keep thy butt on the pavement. Only. Or be out of the ATV bidness. Same for motorcycles.

Get off the pavement? Go across country? Thou shalt walk.

Wanna hunt? I don't even begin to want to describe what's involved, nor how much money it's gonna cost you. I CAN tell you that some sort of THEY will tell you exactly when, where and how you're gonna do it. Their way, not your way.

Guns, in general? Hey, check out Mexico's laws. Essentially, none--unless you're one of the rich guys with political clout.

So, on this Thanksgiving Eve, consider just how danged good ya got it, and think again about what I've said about courtesy.

Give Thanks.

Art

HankL
November 21, 2001, 08:01 PM
Love um or Hate um, If you ever get the chance to hunt The Carolina Plantation and drop that 240 lb. buck over in the cutover, I will be more than happy to let you borrow my 4 wheeler.:D It's parked at the skinning rack. In the right hands they are tools of the trade.

Don Gwinn
November 27, 2001, 07:20 AM
People have been hunting from stands (or just climbing trees) for thousands of years. For a more recent example, read Little House in the Big Woods from the Little House on the Prairie series. Pa took both bear and deer from trees in Wisconsin and it seemed to be the norm. When they moved out on the prairies, they hunted on foot and on horseback.

I do not live in Texas or Montana. I live in Illinois. The farmer whose land I hunt is very generous and I love the guy, but if I were to walk and stalk all day I'd criscross between the borders of his patch about 500 times in a day. I walk about a mile and half to get in and I do it silently before first light. I sit in a homebuilt stand on a trail and spend all day looking at two "No Trespassing" signs on a fence twenty yards in front of my stand, placed there because the stand is there. I hunt in a hedge between two fields; timber that's maybe 30 yards across at its thickest point. My uncle is in a thicker stand of timber about 150 yards away across an open field. The rest of the family is scattered throughout a small timber 2-300 yards in the other direction. We're all within shouting distance. None of us is farther than about 60 yards from the boundary of the land.

Art Eatman
November 27, 2001, 12:15 PM
One thing for folks to think about: What's "good" or "right" in one area isn't necessarily so for another area. The converse is also true.

Some parts of the country, an ATV is nothing but a disturbance, whether it's of hunters or local residents. No difference between the racket of an ATV and a doofus with a boombox at full volume.

Other places, they are perfectly rational and useful.

As usual, it comes down to the behavior of the user and the particular situation. There just ain't no "One size fits all."

Art

J. Parker
November 28, 2001, 01:22 AM
Well, gee, I thought I was done with this thread but I guess not. East of the Mississippi, hunting areas can be compacted so the chances of "running" into an evil ATV'er are increased.
West of the Mississippi, I gotta tell ya, with the vast expanse of the western states if a hunter complains about a ATV he's nothin' but a whiner.

ATTICUS
November 28, 2001, 07:39 AM
"Love um or Hate um, If you ever get the chance to hunt The Carolina Plantation and drop that 240 lb. buck over in the cutover, I will be more than happy to let you borrow my 4 wheeler. It's parked at the skinning rack. In the right hands they are tools of the trade."

Ditto: We used one on Monday to pull four deer through about a quarter mile of the most god awefull hilly thickets You've never seen. I'm against casual riding during hunting seasons(on public grounds), and even riding them to a stand (unless there is a physical need), but they sure make life easier and safer getting the animal out.

Paul B.
November 29, 2001, 02:50 PM
J. Parker. I will complain about ATV's and I'm damn well not a whiner. I live out west as well. My elk hunt this year was totally destroyed but users of ATV's.
Example #1. I spotted a herd of elk about 500 yaerds out. They were completely oblivious of my presence, and I commenced my stalk. Three rectal orifaces on ATV's spotted me and cut me off at high speed and shot up the herd. They got thier elk all right, but screwed me in the process. Complete and total disregard for me and my enjoyment. When I complained to them about it, their attitude was "Horrray for us, screw you."
Example #2. The day before the last day. (This season was four days long.) I spotted anither small herd, made my stalk and shot my cow elk. (I had a cow tag.) I went back to my truck to get my wife to help me gut out my kill. When we got back, there were two guys on ATV's, each roaring off into the distance, with half of my elk on each vehicle. All I had left was a bloody torn up tag and a gut pile. it is a damn good thing they were out of rifle range.
Now, I have no problem with responsible use of ATV's, jet skis, snowmobiles, and 4X4's. But elk tags are hard to get here in Arizona, and seasons are short. I could not get the state to issue me another tag to at least hunt the last day.
FWIW. I was talking to a rancher in the area who was looking for a lost cow. I happened to have seen it, which gave him an idea as to where it was. We were talking and use of ATV's in the future may be totally outlawed for any use in National forests, or if allowed, severely restricted. Why? Because of the IRRESPOSIBLE use of them by slobs. By the lack of consideration shown to others by users of these vehicles. Sure. The public land is there for all to use. But if some people don't stop the "Hooray for me, screw you" attitude, none of us will be able to use it. Need an example? Look at the closing off of the deserts in california. Nuff said?
Paul B.

ATTICUS
November 29, 2001, 07:24 PM
So are irresponsible gun owners bad...or are guns bad?
Why are ATV's any different? It's how you use them.

yankytrash
November 29, 2001, 08:14 PM
Uh, hey guys, you might want to appreciate what you got. You should see the crap I have to put up with.

Dog hunting:barf: :

Trucks lined up along the shoulder of every local road, usually with two or three orange hats crammed in the front seat of a Nissan 4x4 with the CB talkin and the heater blastin.

Packs of dogs running through seemingly every acre of woods around here, crashing through the brush and howling.

Beer cans and human urine surround every block of woods that's huntied by these, dare I say, rednecks.

Although the letter of law tells them to do otherwise, loaded shotguns are just leaning against the tailgates, unmanned and unready.

Cars and trucks of more, ahem, rednecks, pull up next to the orange-hatted rednecks and talk awhile while the dogs hunt for them.

Dogs are starved a week in advance of deer hunting season.

So many deer are spooked up that most hunters bags 10-15 a year, causing them to only use the ribs and tenderloins, leaving the rest for whoever wants it. No appreciation for the animal that just gave their life for the food on the hunter's table.

Sound anti? Maybe a little, but it's a damn joke they way they think they're 'hunting'. How do you hunt with out getting your boots dirty? Come to the Northern Neck of Virginia. They'll be happy to have somebody to sit with in the front seat of their truck and sip beers while they're 'hunting'.

Causes me to have to go from my free state of Virginia to the slave state of New York to go hunt.

ATV's? Pullllllleeze.... Count your blessings.

If I offended any deer dog hunters out there, good. I don't get to speak up about it often, because I'm going to let them keep their rights. No matter how much I hate it, we're all on the same side.

My $.045

J. Parker
November 30, 2001, 01:16 AM
Paul; I agree with you whole-heartedly. They were slobs. I don't intentionally violate anyone's privacy. The problem is I don't know you're there most of the time.
Take a jet skier for example. He know's you're there. He SEE'S you and he still does his jerk-off antics.
But please...California! I lived there for twenty years puttin' up with their bull-pucky. They're a bunch of wine drinkin', tree huggin', SUV drivers who dictate the laws from San Francisco (yes folks SF is the capital NOT Sacramento).
Well, I'm truly sorry the hunt didn't work out. If I knew you were there I'd give you a wide berth. Best Regards, J. parker

J. Parker
November 30, 2001, 01:26 AM
yankytrash; I feel for ya. Like anything in life there's slob hunters and good hunters. The majority are good folks like fellow TFL'ers.
I have my opinions on hunting but maybe I should keep them to myself. Like using dogs to hunt down any kind of game.
Okay, I'll shut up now......Best Regards, J. Parker

WESHOOT2
December 1, 2001, 04:37 AM
Wish I could feel like I was always right.

Art Eatman
December 1, 2001, 10:43 AM
Now, WESHOOT2, your stuck-at-home cold is making you grumpy...Dig out your snap-caps and dream.

:), Art

WESHOOT2
December 1, 2001, 10:31 PM
Some noisy ATV's just drove by my house LOL!





-----------------------------------------

"all my eardrums are sensitive eardrums"

Will Beararms
December 1, 2001, 11:29 PM
I love ATV's. Everyone on the leases that surround ours use em' and the deer are driven into our hunting area. The roar of the tires is louder than the engine itself.

I am my own ATV----------------me and my LaCrosse boots.

J. Parker
December 2, 2001, 12:04 AM
Hunters are a grumpy lot.;) My brother-in-law and clan came down for Thanksgiving. He's a big time hunter. Got himself a pretty small buck this year. He was grumpy for awhile. My dear sister-in-law says he's like this right after deer season.
So, to alleviate this condition I broke out the arsenal and we proceded to shoot at a target of bin ladin at about thirty yards. His condition changed rapidly and the rest of the weekend was great. Have you hugged a hunter lately? :)

Art Eatman
December 2, 2001, 12:29 AM
J.Parker, you're kidding, right? Hug some smelly creature that hasn't been near a shower for a week? No shave? Probably ran out of john-paper?

Yuck!

:D, Art

J. Parker
December 3, 2001, 01:29 AM
I "heard" duck hunters at 7:00 am this morning. So what the hell, might as well get up and make some coffee. Looked out from my deck and there they were, marching along all decked out in bright orange.
At least 3 or 4 times a year they hike through the farmers field and ask me to use the phone or help pull them out 'cause they got stuck. They're good folks.
Next thing ya know I'll be huntin' bambi with my SKS. Good Huntin', J. Parker

CD1
December 3, 2001, 08:31 AM
What were duck hunters doing wearing orange?!?

J. Parker
December 3, 2001, 11:54 AM
Well, I'm not up on the seasons but some wear camo and some bright orange. Is dove season over with? I dunno.