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Peter Teh
November 7, 2001, 04:49 AM
Does anyone know the injuries sustained by a shotgun with bird shot shell ?

What is the effective distance (able to cause harm/grevious hurt) of a birdshot and buckshot?

Whish 12 gauge shell is recommended for riot/internal security purpose. (We are very concern about the injuries etc)

Who can I approached for more information and statistics.

Please assist. Regards.




:eek:

PreserveFreedom
November 7, 2001, 06:28 AM
I am not sure about your maximum range, but here goes the rest...

At close range, birdshot can be every bit as lethal as buckshot. Many here (myself included) like the idea of it for home defense where the home is an apartment. The birdshot will do the job yet still has less chance of going through a wall and killing your neighbor.

As far as security or riot use goes...well if security is justified in firing a shotgun at someone, they might as well make it a lethal shot. That goes for the US anyway. As far as riots, the givernment here has been known to use rubber projectiles. There are many types out there. Bean bag shells are another option. Those are known as Less Lethal Munitions (LLM). You pay planty per round, but you will with just about any other special purpose round anyway.

Dave McC
November 7, 2001, 06:47 AM
Peter, we used to use 8 shot for riot control and stopped because of legal issues. Also, shot can clump badly and cause major damage when such is not desired.We were taught to fire low at the legs, still not a bad idea with the non lethal stuff.

Non lethal shotgun ammo includes baton loads, basically wooden blocks fired to strike the perps and injure them enough to dissuade them from illegal actions.Works very well, saw them used in a prison riot and combined with gas, resolved a very bad situation PDQ.

You may want to try communicating with the Israelis, their peculiar situation has them getting in lots of non lethal ammo use.

Good luck....

Al Thompson
November 7, 2001, 07:41 AM
Try these guys for some good information.


http://www.firearmstactical.com/index.html

SDC
November 7, 2001, 02:15 PM
Fiochhi also currently makes a line of "Less lethal" or "riot control" shotshells that are packed with plastic BBs; these are intended to be skipped off the floor at someone's legs, rather than fired straight at them, because they can do every bit as much damage as an ordinary shell if fired at someone at normal "gun fight" ranges.

Dave R
November 7, 2001, 08:21 PM
I know how you can determine the effective range of birdshot...

Shoot paper up close. Move back in increments. When the pattern gets over...what?...8" in size? 6" in size?...you are beyond effective range.

My Mossy shoots 10" groups with buck at 25 yards. I think that's about max range for that.

Foxy
November 7, 2001, 11:54 PM
Dave R,

But birdshot seems to lose velocity really quickly. We were out plinking, and my friend had a load of birdshot that failed to do much more than dent a garbage can at about 10-15 yards. I personally wouldn't want to be shot with birdshot at 10 or even 25 yards, but I don't think I'd have faith in it being as bad as buckshot at that range either.