View Full Version : Best HD/CQB shotgun???
October 16, 2001, 11:27 AM
What do you think is the absolute best fighting shotgun? Wilson, Benelli M1,M4, Rem 870?? Thanks, hangfar.
October 16, 2001, 11:32 AM
October 16, 2001, 12:08 PM
It's like asking what makes the best wife, Hangfarr.Personal choices rule.
First off, the good folks are good with darn near anything. Most of them have an 870, even if they have other "Serious" shotguns.
A trained, cool hand with an 870 is an incredibly effective CQB participant. Going to any other shotgun changes that little if any.
For us mere mortals, the 870 has a fairly simple Manual Of Arms, is quite rugged under all conditions, and will keep on working when dirty, wet, sandy, and so on.
One contributor here tells the story of cleaning his Dad's old 870 for the first time in a couple of decades. No glitches.
All that aside, I believe that using any of the better shotguns until it feels like a body part makes much more impact than the name on the receiver, the addons, or "Customizing".
If this is your first "Serious" shotgun, I suggest....
Buy a police turnin 870, even if it's a beater.Except for getting the stock to fit, leave it alone. No bells, whistles, fender skirts or fuzzy dice.
Buy lots of ammo.
Get some training,and burn up that ammo. Buy more, repeat.
Do any of the clay games, handthrow traps, do some of the drills mentioned in the Archives, whatever. Just shoot the thing.
After a few sessions, when your form is improving and all of a sudden the targets get shredded on a regular basis,you'll stop, grin like a possum, and know that you made the right decision.
After a year or so, you'll have a better idea of what will help you and what will just suck cash from your wallet like Dracula does blood from a jugular....
October 16, 2001, 01:43 PM
I have o&u's, sbs's, autos, and the 870. Love the 870 manual of arms, but I suffer from "SSS"(short stroke syndrome). I play all the clay games at the club, but would like to try the three gun events. I will go auto probably. I would like to have a competitive game gun that is suitable for more serious social work. I am hesitant to go back to the 870 as I fire thousands of rounds from guns that don't require the trombone activity. What do you think is the most reliable combat auto? Thanks, hangfarr.
October 16, 2001, 04:04 PM
I'm no auto expert, sorry. I do hear good things about the Benellis and see some used well, but it's hearsay.
If I HAD to go to an auto, I'd probably trick an 1100 or 11-87 up and do some judicious load selection.Those are good shotguns and while not perfect, they do last a long time and lots of shooting.
Addons and mods would include a mag extension, probably just a 2 shot one for the weight saved. Good fit, good trigger,top quality pad, maybe a long forcing cone, and high viz sights of some kind, probably a peep, would fill out the wish list.
I hear good things about the Beretta 390s and 391, but not in a "Serious" role. Again, it's second hand hearsay.
Hope this helps, maybe the semi-auto mavens will chip in on this.
October 16, 2001, 04:06 PM
If I were interested in a shotgun for home defense, what's about an 870 vs a Mossberg 500?
And which specific type of 870 would be best? At remington.com, they just list what all look like hunting shotguns :(
October 16, 2001, 07:05 PM
My own opinion (YMMV) favors the 870, and I traded a 500 when I bought the first one I own. The only thing that I think the 500 has over the 870 on paper is the safety, and even that doesn't wash because (1) the plastic safety buttons break with some regularity and must be replaced with metal and (2) if you replace the small 870 safety with a big-head safety (same cost as replacing the plastic 500 button) you can easily disengage the safety without disturbing the location of your RH index finger.
Complaints about the 870 are mostly the "PC" issues: dimpled tubes on most models and the locking safety. Buy a good used one. It will be smooooth and dependable. Get an 18-20" barrel for it. Practice. Consider extra ammo options and whatever sight configuration works best for you. Practice more.
The Remington LE riot guns are at www.remingtonle.com
They don't seem to have the home defense models on either website. Must be uncomfortable admitting they make such things in public, poor darlings!
October 17, 2001, 05:48 AM
Foxy, I'm an unabashed 870 fan, but....
I think the 870 will hold up longer than the Mossy.I think the Mossy will last longer than the original owner, and maybe a second generation also, depending on use and care.
So, I suggest you try out both of these and maybe the Winchesters,, and see what you like. The primary factor in effectiveness is the shooter, not the brand.
October 17, 2001, 08:36 AM
This website provides an opinion on the 870 vs. Moss debate.
October 17, 2001, 10:33 AM
I just read that opinion. It certainly is one.
October 17, 2001, 01:14 PM
Justin is, if not an "Expert", a well informed and intelligent shotgunner. He has his reasons for his choice, and makes some good points about supporting any American company that overly worries about PC with firearms.
And in truth, it's a Win-Win situation. Both are good shotguns.
October 17, 2001, 02:58 PM
Well, he certainly spent a great deal of time writing the article but I hope folks to not presume it to be an objective comparison of the two SG's. I found it to be quite subjective. Each "fault" in the 870 was either easily modified (dimples, safety) or simply his expression of his preference (safety again, slide release, light weight, shell lifter).
I could as easily write practically the same article and end up with exactly the opposite conclusion, which I would. As you can see I am a fan of the 870 and so my version would most certainly see the Remington coming out on top. I have a friend with a 500 and I find it rattles like a toy and is too light, therefore the recoil seems worse. Does this make it worse than an 870? It does for me but then again, that would be my opinion. He likes it so it is perfect for him.
I am not arguing that Justin's writing is poor or even incorrect. I am arguing that it is simply his opinion and carries no more weight than mine just because he spent some time to gussy it up a bit and present it as if it were actually an objective view.
As far as supporting (or not) an American company who does not take the high road. I have repeatedly challenged folks here to call or write Remington and tell them how annoyed they are.
Too many folks don't take the time to encourage Remington to get back on the straight and narrow and yet waste the time to bad mouth them on internet forums.
Sorry if this is a little heavy but a nerve has been tweaked.
October 19, 2001, 12:08 PM
How hard is it to strip and clean a 870? My roommate has a 500 and it's apparently a pain in the rear to disassemble (small ball bearings, hard to re-attach parts, etc).
The things I am primarily interested in are reliability, accuracy (whatever that means with a shotgun), mag capacity (I'd rather have more in the mag than to have a sidesaddle with a lot hanging off - I don't want to drop shells if I can avoid it!), and ability to upgrade (say, pistol grip w/full stock, surefire, sling), and price (I'm a poor college student). It wouldn't be a hunting shotgun, but rather a defense shotgun. Which (870 vs 500) comes out on top?
October 19, 2001, 12:44 PM
Foxy - it's not hard to strip the 870 for cleaning. It can be done and cleaned in about 10 minutes, if you keep your cleaning kit together.
As for the criteria you named.... there isn't a clear winner. If you just wnat something to load and stand in the corner, Winchester and Mossberg both make defender/persuader models with factory extended magazines. Rem has recently released a factory extended 870 as well. All sell for about $270-300 new, less used. Slings and stock are available for both the 870 and 500 series.
October 19, 2001, 01:41 PM
I am still learning about my own 870 but it seems quite simple to keep clean. I just put a factory extension on and it now holds 8 (7+1) rounds which I think should be sufficient for any social work.
October 19, 2001, 01:53 PM
Foxy, it really (IMHO) boils down to the following - price, freatures, and the location of the safety.
The discussion of the safety location is important :
1. Pistol grip / low ready vs high ready - b/c the safety is on top of the receiver on a Mossy they do not lend themselves well to pistol grips. Why? You need to move your thumb - thus giving up instantanious fire control when dis-engaging the safety. Thus, Mossy (any SG w/o a pistol grip) is also better suited to a "high ready" position - which is arguablely a faster and more nature motion for shouldering the weapon than the low ready. YMMV
2. Safety use - if you don't compete and are not required to utilize a safety by an agency, then this does not really apply; because the choice to use or not use the safety is totally up to you. If you are required to use a safety then the location of it is important. For example - I compete in 3 gun and non clay SG events. On a steel course it is all about speed. Fumble f*cking with the safety because you have a pistol grip on a Mossy and had to move your hand will cost you a 1/10 of a second or more and may cost you the match. Big button safety heads are available for both Mossy and Rem. They help.
Both are bomb proof, both have die hard fans, both are great. The operator needs think out how they set them up such that they are most effective.
October 19, 2001, 05:26 PM
Eez not da gon! Eet ezz ewe!
Train yourself, then worry about equipment. Get thee to skul.
October 19, 2001, 08:22 PM
Its my 870 rem marine magnum...very nice shotgun....you need to try..
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