Mag-Lite

[AdrenalineJunky]

Is anyone aware of a book or similar source of information regarding defensive(primarily) and offensive techniques using a mag-lite? I use a 3-"C" cell light working as a doorman and have worked it into a couple of Thai routines. My problem is that I think using the mag-lite in this fashion (with my routines) will be too harmful to use on someone. My goal is optimal protection with minimal liability. I know there are techniques out there which are specific to mag-lites and resemble aikido or judo, but there are no classes locally that give instruction in that area. If any one can suggest some written material or even provide me with leads to some material, I would appreciate it. Thanks.:)

[PreserveFreedom]

I wouldn't worry about it being too harmful. It should impact like a thick ASP.

[AdrenalineJunky]

Seriously, I think the light will do some major damage. Also, in my routine, the light ended up being more of a striking weapon than a defensive tool. Again, thanks for the replies.:)

[Art Eatman]

If "stabbed" into a solar plexus, it's a good extension of your reach. However, if used as a club, and too a head, there is the probability of a blunt-instrument cut.

So, in today's world of tort liability, I would wrap a couple of layers of cloth around the body of the light, taping into place. It would still provide an effective thump, but be less likely to cut.

"See? I was trying to avoid harming anybody!"

:), Art

[AdrenalineJunky]

I won't be "clubbing" anyone. Still, is there any reading material anyone knows about that might give me some insight on this. In my law enforcement classes we have briefly reviewed the use of a baton. I think this is similar to what I'm looking for, but specific to mag-lites. I'll ask my teachers this week, but I was hoping someone here would have that info. available. Thanks, again.

[LawDog]

There's a book out called Official Kubaton Techniques, co-written by Tak Kubota. You should be able to order it here:
http://www.spyhq.com/personal/keychain.htm

Tak Kubota also wrote a book called Action Kubaton, but I've never been able to find it.

Kubaton techniques can translate pretty well for use with a flashlight, especially if you have one of the 'C' cell lights.

LawDog

[Gunter]

A 3C Maglite qualifies as a short to medium "stick" (ends useful for jabs; edges for pressure application; tube may be used to strike), and as such can be used as nonlethal or as lethal force. Nonlethal use is restricted to the large muscles of the limbs (hitting joints has a high risk of permanent damage, with associated civil liability). Blows and jabs against the head or torso must be regarded as lethal force (and thus generally only permissible when someone is trying to kill you, right now).

[Charlie Fox]

I have used a 3 C cell Maglite for a number of years. I find it to be very portable as well as quick in a defense situation. I think its use should be confined to defensive moves - blocks and locks - as opposed to strikes. Striking a subject should be a last resort but should be as with any other baton; aimed at long bones and joints. As for criminal liability, the type of weapon doesn't matter as long as you can articulate that you were defending yourself. It is only a flashlight after all;)

[Jffal]

Armor of New Hampshire: Browsing Defensive Tactics With Flashlights
http://www.shooterstore.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&DID=122&Product_ID=1027&CATID=60

Contains information on liability and diagramed instructions on the defensive and offensive use of flashlights.

Jeff

[AdrenalineJunky]

everyone for their informarion.

[parabellum9x19]

What is the best flashlight that can be used as a baton?

I am already aware of the flashlight attachment for ASP batons.

[Erick Gelhaus]

My agency issues Streamlight SL20. It is a secondary impact weapon, meaning that while it can be used as a impact weapon you cannot leave you baton behind consciously.

The manual of arms is taught in the manner as it is for a straight baton, length being the only difference.

[parabellum9x19]

Does a 5 or 6 C cell Maglite work well as a baton? Are there better 5 or 6 C cell flashlights that can be used as a baton?

[TEXAS LAWMAN]

Adrenaline Junky,

John Peters wrote a small hardback book, "Defensive Use of Flashlights" (I bought my copy from Massad Ayoob's Police Bookshelf in New Hampshire in the mid-80s---I think). I can't access the book right now but believe the title is correct.

[David Scott]

Retired LEO friends advise me that when investigating noises in the night, my 4-C cell MagLite should be carried in my left hand, over my left shoulder, gripped so that I can operate the switch and aim it, or swing it forward for use as a club. That sucker is heavy enough to induce subdural hematoma, and tough enough so you won't hurt the flashlight.

[parabellum9x19]

Anyone have a 5 or 6 C cell Maglite?

[Seeker]

Does nobody use the "D" cell maglites?

Seems like the heavier D cells would make a better improvised weapon, are they too heavy?

[AdrenalineJunky]

I'm going to buy a 6 C cell flash light to keep by my bed. I have found that, even the 3 C cell light, can easily double as a powerful striking weapon. With respect to the D cell being too heavy, honestly, I'm not sure. From what I recall, the 2 D cell and the 3 C cell were approx. the same length and weight. Obviously the widths are different, that's why I chose the C cell. But I believe it all depends on what your primary purpose for the light is. The guy at the Army Surplus told me that D cells last much longer than C cells. I'm not sure if that's true or not. But I use the light while bouncing, and chose the C cell because it felt more like a baton. Both are extremely solid and equally as intimidating. I used to carry one of those mini-mag lites and, I must say, I have notice a significant difference in the time and type of response I receive. :D

[Jffal]

I have average sized hands and am most comfortable with 5 and 6 C Mags as well as the 3 D. I also have a 4 D which I leave in the car. A bit too cumbersome for me for any other purpose than illumination but it serves that function very well. That 4 D could probably be used to knock the auto windshield out if I was able to do so after an accident.

With fresh batteries and xenon lamps (considerably more powerful than the standard Krypton bulps the Mags are sold with) you have an efficient multipurpose tool.

Cold Steel once produced a 20 or so inch aluminum flashlight that fed off 7 AA batteries in a row. Referred to as the Brute, it offered a non-adjustable wide angle beam, on off button on the tailcap, very thick barrel. It weighed over 20 ounces but because of some critical design flaws (weak springs in the tailcap and under the shock absorber bulb housing itself), turned out to be more tempermental than Cold Steel intended. The remaining stock was sold to either US Calvary or Brigade Quartermasters, renamed The Enforcer, and eventually sold out. Flawed or not, I rather like this item.

I'd like to see the design revived and improved. It would make a suitable substitute to C and D cell torches with specs that more closely resemble metal batons.
Jeff

[parabellum9x19]

The old original 5D and 6D were made of a heavier aluminum. I have seen a pic of the cold steel brute. I wish it was still in production.

[Battlespace]

Several (no - many) years while in Germany I was talking with a military police sergeant who had spent many years handling drunk soldiers. He recommended a four cell flashlight with the handle srapped with good old fashioned black friction tape. He told me all you have to do is jam the light handle up into the crotch and then twist it sharply about 1/4 turn. The friction tape provides a good media to grip clothes, skin and whatever with. He said he never had any problems with getting whoever it was to do exactly like he was told. Granted, this is not a self defense purpose, but does show a good use for flashlights.

[Mannlicher]

I have owned and carried a rechargable MagLight for years. It is the size of a 5 D cell light. I think this is what was called the "Rodney King Special" some years back. It is heavy, and would make a darn good defensive weapon if called upon.

Oh, and it has some 30K candle power brightness too. Wow.

[JB-man]

When your life is threatened, I don't think you're gonna debate whatever you do to defend yourself is lawful or not.
Some of those so-called laws are garbage, and not worth dying for. I don't think the jury's gonna nail you for defending yourself with a flashlight.
But, hey, I could be wrong??? I have a mag-light, but it's only 4 inches long.

[swatman]

May wanna check out Ayoob's book THE TRUTH ABOUT SELF DEFENSE.
He has an entire chapter dealing with use of flashlights as SD weapons.