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Ironbarr
July 13, 2001, 10:48 PM
My new Charles Daly (of June 6th) and 200 rounds PMC .45ACP as of today, threw a casing out that was crimped on opposite sides of the open end. Crimped hard and deep enough to tear each side at the "V". I don't have it available due to showing it to someone then forgetting it when I left. I came right back in but the clerk had tossed it in a jam full trash can.

This is something I hadn't seen before... any ideas about how this can happen - and what does it mean?

Thanks.

-Andy

Mike Irwin
July 14, 2001, 01:09 AM
If it's what I think it is, the brass being caught in the ejection port as the slide begins to slam home, it's a relatively common problem. My Springfield 1911-A1 will occasionally do that.

One of the solutions is to lower and flare the ejection port to allow the case more clearance as it is ejected.

I guess the idea is that, as the case is ejected, it bounces around and slows down just long enough that the slide catches it and smashes the case mouth into the front of the ejection port.

By lowering the port, the case can clear the port without being slowed down too much.

I've thought about having the port on my 1911 lowered, but quite frankly I don't lose that many cases (maybe 1 in 50) to mouth tears, and .45 ACP brass is very cheap.

The only reason I'd really consider having it done is if I was having recurring smokestack jams.

James K
July 14, 2001, 02:48 PM
If the cases are striking the edge of the ejection port, the extractor and/or ejector needs work. Opening up the port is like cutting a hole in the house wall because the door sticks - an expensive way to fix a simple problem.

Jim

Ironbarr
July 14, 2001, 07:29 PM
The new (enhanced) Daly has several (upgrade) features including ambi-safety and lowered, flared ejection port. The extractor is cast (usually changed out by knowledgeable owners - mine is cast).

The thing is - this casing was ejected not jammed as in requiring a manual response. As mangled as it was I'd have thought it would have jammed the slide. Wish I hadn't lost it... it would have made a great photo.

vega
July 14, 2001, 10:12 PM
Irwin,
Just curious and with my little knowledge on jamming, but isn't that smokestack (stove pipe) is caused by limp wristing?

vega

Mike Irwin
July 15, 2001, 12:19 AM
Vega,

Limpwristing is one cause of a smokestack-type jam. As Jim notes, they can also be caused by the extractor, ejector, or a combination of the two.

Ironbar,

Yep, the cases invariably end up ejected on mine, as well, but the case mouths are still mangled. It's a simple case of the case getting caught and mangled, but still escaping.

Jim,

Can't say I disagree with you, but I do like the added benefit that a lowered and flared port gives. With such a modification, smokestack jams under any condition are virtually eliminated.

Oh, and a better analogy would be it's not unlike reshaping the door strike or jamb so that the door doesn't stick. :)

vega
July 15, 2001, 12:31 AM
Mike,
Sorry to call you on your last name. Got confuse.

vega

Mike Irwin
July 15, 2001, 02:21 AM
Hey, no problem...

I'll chalk it up to being just another one of the many defects found in the Chevrolet Vega. I hope you're old enough to know what I'm talking about... :D

Here are a couple of other potential causes of smokestack jams...

Recoil spring is too weak for the ammo being used.

Recoil spring is too powerful for the ammo being used.

Magazine problem that allows rounds in the magazine to interfere with casing being ejected.

Not enough lubrication.

Lubrication is fouled.

Fleem rays from the Planet Skorbax.

That last one is a real pain, because you've got to pay a LOT of money to have a defleemulator mounted on your gun.

The point of this is that there are a LOT of reasons for a 1911 to smokestack.

Limp wristing, and the ones I've mentioned above (with the exception of the magazine interference one), involve the slide moving either too fast and coming back and catching the empty casing before it has time to clear the port, or the slide doesn't recoil fully and allow the case time to clear the port.

James K
July 15, 2001, 09:53 PM
Mike, fortunately, I have some of those defleemulators on hand and I will sell them for only $139.00 to anyone who needs one. ;) They work the same way as convex mag followers and full length recoil spring guides.

Jim

vega
July 16, 2001, 09:15 AM
Mike,
Are you kidding?! I havent seen a chevy yet.

vega

Mike Irwin
July 16, 2001, 10:42 AM
Vega,

Yep, back in the early 1970s Chevy came out with the Vega. Sort of a reply to the small Japanese cars that were gaining in popularity.

Essentially, the car was one HUGE stovepipe jam with a crushed casemouth. :)

It was a big mistake that almost killed the company. It ranks right up there with being one of the most unreliable and poorly manufactured cars in history.

Somehow I don't think too many people will be including the Vega in classic car shows any time soon. :)

James K
July 17, 2001, 10:15 PM
Don't be too sure. There are Trabant collectors' clubs in Germany and a Yugo collectors' group here. There are even Renault Dauphine groupies.

Now don't those made the Vega look good?

Jim

Ironbarr
July 17, 2001, 11:05 PM
Just never know what's to come when you post a topic here - for sure.

We've gone from mangling casings to mangling cars - strangely, I've owned both a Vega and a Dauphine (who would know, huh?). Neither one had any problems and gave long service.

That electric clutch in the Dauphine took a bit to get used to - had to stop "handholding" the shift stick... got real tired of high RPM noise and going nowhere, and that sudden jerk when letting go.

The narrow tires were great for not getting stuck in Big and Little Shell on Padre Island (TX). Painted the Sand-colored wheels Chinese red; hung an 86" whip on the bumper (car was black - don't remember ever seeing anything but black) - sharp looking. But fogged the inside glass on rainy days - almost IFR... real pain (no A/C). Never could get to VFR on top (which, of course, didn't (doesn't??) exist. That's OK, Reader - Airdales know what I'm talking about.

Any hints on shell casing crunch - or have we run this one out?:p

-Andy

Mike Irwin
July 18, 2001, 12:34 AM
Hints on shellcasing crunch?

Yep, take it to a gunsmith for a little extractor/ejector tuning. That's the cheapest & easiest first level fix.

If that doesn't work, check your springs against the load you're using.

If that doesn't work check the magazines.

If that doesn't work, get a defleemulator from Jim.

If that doesn't work, get the ejection port flared and lowered.