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View Full Version : A TFL online raffle?


Monkeyleg
July 13, 2001, 05:02 PM
This idea just started swirling in my head this afternoon, so I thought I'd run it past the administrators. As you probably know, I've gotten the Wisconsin Concealed Carry Movement going. There's a couple of people active in it right now, including a TFL member. One method of fund-raising is going to be a raffle for a handgun(s), donated by local gun shops. The thought occurred to me about doing a Glock raffle on TFL, with the transfer done through the usual FFL to FFL route.

Is this idea in accordance with TFL rules? If not, forget about it. But, if so, what would be the downside to doing it?

Thanks for any input or admonishments.

PreserveFreedom
July 14, 2001, 12:50 AM
I have thought about something like this myself in the past. The problem is, there are many different styles of shooters in TFL. If there was a raffle, you would most likely have to have a choice of prizes. Some are pistol lovers, some shoot wheelguns, some are strictly riflemen, some stick to shotguns. Some punch paper, some shoot varmints. Some fire a couple of rounds per year at larger game. Some just shoot skeet. The NRA has raffles like this on occasion, but they usually have a variety of firearms for the winner to choose from. That would be a big investment for TFL if they had to purchase the guns ahead of time. Figure that one would probably have to buy one of each:

Glock
1911
SA Revolver
DA Revolver
O/U shotgun
45LC Levergun
300 Win Mag bolt rifle

That's just a small list of what I think would appeal to all members. Imagine just raffling off a Glock...you wouldn't get attention of 1911 and hunting enthusiasts as much as you could with other stuff. To sell enough tickets to cover the price of the gun, interest would have to be held by all members. Just my 2ยข, if I made any sense.

Monkeyleg
July 14, 2001, 10:56 AM
PreserveFreedom, there's merit to your point. Perhaps the auction could be the winner's choice of a Glock, a Kimber Classic or similarly-priced Springfield, a pre-ban S&W, a Remington 700 or a shotgun that's in the $500 range. The dealer in my area could come up with any of these. I'm thinking of 500 tickets at $10 apiece, or two for $17.

I guess the question I still have for Rich or the administrators is: is this in line with TFL policy?

Rich Lucibella
July 14, 2001, 11:31 AM
The question I have is:
Who gets the proceeds? We've approved raffle and promotional threads here before, but there we need to know the reason.
Rich

Monkeyleg
July 14, 2001, 12:05 PM
Rich, the proceeds would go to the Wisconsin Concealed Carry Movement, which is a politcal action committee that I and a couple of others have formed. It was registered with the state of Wisconsin on July 9th. The purpose of the PAC is to support candidates who support concealed carry, and to try and bring uncommitted candidates over to our side of the fence. We're going to do a couple of raffles here in the Milwaukee area over the next several months, and I hope do one or two upstate as well. But I thought it would be interesting to try a TFL-exclusive raffle.

Also, I misread PreserveFreedom's post. I'm not looking for TFL to buy any guns for this. The prize gun would be donated by a dealer here in Milwaukee.

The risk, of course, is that there wouldn't be enough tickets sold to cover the cost of the gun, which would be a real shame. In 1996 I ran a contest for a pro-gun congressional candidate. The person who got the greatest number of homeowners to put yard signs out would win a Russian SKS. Not a single person entered the contest, even though the minimum number of signs required was just 10!

Anyway, any thoughts?

Rich Lucibella
July 14, 2001, 12:34 PM
ML-
On that basis, we'd support it with an Announcement and bandwidth. I'd prefer not to make it exclusive to TFL for two reasons:
1) You limit your audience
2) We wind up with a lot of loose cannons registering just to enter the raffle.
3) The paperwork would be endless, in terms of checking to see if the Members are from TFL

Additionally, I've found that the Members at TFL, while the best on the net and an all-round great bunch, don't tend to fall over each other to shell out bucks. It seems that a core group of 50-100 can always be depended upon. The rest just come here for the info and the comraderie....which is OK with us.
Rich

Monkeyleg
July 14, 2001, 03:47 PM
Thanks for the offer, Rich, as well as the advice. Unfortunately, your characterization of most of the members not being willing to shell out bucks is true of nearly all gun owners, as I've learned the hard way over the years. This is something I'll have to noodle on for awhile, perhaps first trying a conventional raffle here in town to see how it goes.

Thanks again.

AR-10
July 14, 2001, 05:25 PM
If I could offer a thought...why not just run your raffle locally as you described, and announce it here as well as on other boards. You could list an e-mail address or some other means of contacting the person selling tickets.

If you plan on selling 500 tickets, it really doesn't matter where you sell them, right? The larger the venue, the better.

Have you looked at the legal details involved with running a raffle? I believe it has to be documented that the funds are going to a non-profit use to avoid paying income taxes, sales taxes, blah, blah, blah. I don't know much about it, but I know there are procedures you have to follow to be legit.

Just a few thoughts. Good luck.

Monkeyleg
July 14, 2001, 10:09 PM
Thanks for the reply, AR10. In Wisconsin a raffle has to be conducted by someone who has a raffle license or permit. The state government has it covered six ways to Sunday to ensure they don't miss their cut. So, it will be done through someone who's licensed.

On the first go-round for the local raffle, I'm going to try for 1000 tickets at $5 each. As for the online raffle, after reading what Rich had to say, maybe 500 is even too many.

Stay tuned for further details. ;)

PreserveFreedom
July 15, 2001, 12:44 AM
That does make more sense. If you had several firearms in line that you could certainly get on demand for the winner. Don't forget, if you give away a $1200 Beretta shotgun instead of a $500 Glock, it may still be worth it. By offering the shotgun as one of the prizes, you may boost your ticket sales by $700. At $10 a ticket, you should be able to sell 70 tickets to people that love duck hunting that wouldn't have been otherwise interested. Diversity is the key! It's also what makes TFL the best. ;) It's only specialty is freedom.

labgrade
July 15, 2001, 10:45 AM
Monkeyleg, et al ...

Do check into your states' raffle rules. Seems strange to me, but nonetheless .... CO's got some really off-the-wall regs re raffles.

Hate to see you get in a crack.

Jason Demond
July 15, 2001, 02:36 PM
Don't forget the .22.

Monkeyleg
July 16, 2001, 05:44 PM
Labgrade, you must be one of those Authentic Psychics I see on TV. A check of Wisconsin's raffle laws revealed that raffles cannot be run for political purposes. So, it's time to think of another way to raise funds. Unfortunately, just asking gun owners for money doesn't get you too far. :(

labgrade
July 17, 2001, 08:17 AM
Gaze into mine eyes .... ;)

We looked at some fund-raising things here in CO to boost the pro-freedom side o' things - raffle obviously came up as ideas.
(as an aside, the idea was to do a "gun a month" raffle - figured a couple bennies outa the deal = $s (duh) for the cause, stick it right in the antis eye (re "one gun a month") + the subsequent (& free) publicity it would generate through all the hoopla & gasps from the sheep.

CO's got some strange thing about being a registered PAC for at least three years - on & on. Gets convoluted from there ....

Glad you checked into it so you didn't waste your time OR get a visit by the raffle police.

Don Gwinn
July 19, 2001, 08:36 AM
How far do the regulations go? For instance, what if the dealer has a raffle, complete with a fun day at the shop the day of the drawing (dad did this when he was in business and it always helped business) and then turns around and donates the raffle proceeds to the PAC? If the raffle is not advertised as benefitting the PAC, just a good deal, does that clear the law?
It might be that since he can show a benefit to his business from the raffle and the "Party day" thing, the raffle is legally his as long as he handles all the details. Then again, maybe not.

labgrade
July 19, 2001, 09:29 AM
Don,

It just was too convoluted (here in CO) to even bother with. One aspect was having to have an FFL to do the x-fer/NICS for whomever won. +, the 3-year thing stuck worse as 1) we weren't registered & 2) had to wait 3 years ... it goes on.

Best bet is checking with your own state.