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44rugerfan
May 17, 2001, 12:26 PM
So what do y'all think are the most underrated/overrated handgun/rifle cartridges? Here's what I think:
Rifle/overrated: Gotta be the .223. I have no doubt that it is a fine military cartridge, well suited for war. But I hunt alot more than I fend off mongol hordes. It isn't powerful enough to take big game cleanly. As a varmint round it pales in comparision to the 22-250 or the 220 swift. I think it is popular because of all the cool rifles that are chambered for it, not for the merits of the cartridge itself.
Rifle/underrated: 25-06. Loaded with similair bullet weights, has almost the same ballistics as a 22-250, making it an outstanding varminter. Heavier weights and it has enough energy to smack an elk. Truly an all-purpose round for the lower 48, I have never understood why it isn't more popular.
Handgun/overrated: Gonna take some flack for this, but I have to go with the 45 Long Colt. Yeah, I know you can hot-rod it and get pretty good performance, but that is only if you reload. Out of the box factory ammo is still loaded to the same specs as they had back in 1873. Once again, I think it is popular because of the gun that made it famous more than the merits of the round itself.
Handgun/underrated: Hard call on this one. Normally the 41 mag is lamented as the most underrated handgun round out there, but I think I will go with the 38 specail. It has largely been rendered obsolete by the advent of semi-auto 9mm and 40 S&W for law enforcement use, but it still does the same job it used to. I think it has been depopularized by the handguns it is designed for, namely the revolver.

George Hill
May 17, 2001, 12:29 PM
.17 Remington

Christopher II
May 17, 2001, 02:00 PM
Okay, I'll give it a try.

Rifle -

Most Overrated - (Forgive me...) The .30-06. Is there anything the .30-06 can do that a .308 can't do in a shorter, lighter, more rigid action?

Most Underrated - Tough one. I'll go with the Swedish 6.5x55. Accurate enough to shoot a 1000-yd match with, powerful enough to take pretty much anything on the North American continent (excepting Grizzly and perhaps Elk, but maybe not...) Plus, it has the velocity and trajectory to make an acceptable varmint round. If I were to build up a single "do-everything" rifle, it would be chambered in 6.5x55.

Pistol -

Most Overrated - The 10mm. It's a powerful pistol round, but still a pistol round. And the additional power really pushes the full-load 10mm to the limits of controllability. What good is a gun that you can't make multiple hits, rapidly, under pressure with?

Most Underrated - The 9mm Para. My second-favorite pistol cartridge. It's no .700 Ultrablaster, but if you're good enough, the 9mm will work just fine.

Just my opinions...

Later,
Chris

Gunslinger
May 17, 2001, 02:58 PM
Rifles: (I'm not a rifle person so am not really qualified to comment...but......)

Overrated: I have to agree with the .223. It does nothing really well with the exception of being very accurate. However, there are other calibers that far exceeed it in that arena.

Underrated: Hmmmm....this is a hard one for me because, as stated above, I'm not a rifle person and there are a lot of cartridges out there I am unfamiliar with and probably more than a few that I even unaware of. I'll say in this day and age of the latest "whiz-bang" technology it is the old ought six. I know Christopher rated it the most overrated but I think we have lost sight of the versatility of it with modern "advancements".

Handguns:

Overrated: Without question the dang .40 S&W. A neutered 10mm that does nothing that isn't already being done better by other calibers. I know, I know....it gives a .40 caliber punch in a 9mm package. But in most loads offered (or those used by reloaders for that matter) it is a wimp so that negates the .40 caliber punch. It is popular only due to hype/marketing, the fact that it was the latest "whiz-bang" cartridge on the market when it was introduced and so many police departments foolishing jumped on the bandwagon. What other caliber could make the term "sub-sonic" sound appealing and "tactical"?
Nope, give me something that has some serious meat to it and I'll worry about placing my shoots where they belong and not count on having a flotilla of under powered "kinder and gentler" rounds on board.

Underrated: Again this is one I feel passionately about. The .41 magnum. Unappreciated, I believe, in large part to the fact that few shooters have actually tried, the cost of factory ammo and the limited availability of guns manufactured in that caliber. It is, arguably, even more versatile than the .357 magnum, another excellent cartridge. Loaded properly it can drop down to .38 special levels and exceed .44 magnum levels in all but the larger grain bullets. It is also the "flattest" shooting handgun caliber I have ever found.
I have never met anyone with .41 mag experience that did not swear by it.

Chad Young
May 17, 2001, 03:24 PM
Rifle:

<flame proof suit = on>

Over Rated: .300 Remington Magnum - maybe beause I am in Florida, with tiny deer and rarely a shot over 50 yards, I find the shoulder-seperating power of this round to be mostly macho factor in nature.

Under Rated: .30-30. Ok, so it is not fast, it is not modern, and may not be a MOA round, but more deer and other game has fallen to it on this side of the Mississippi than any other round! When I go hunting down here, the Marlin .30-30 is what I grab, iron sights and all.

Pistol:

Over Rated: .44Mag/.454Casull/.480Ruger/.475-.500Linebaugh/.50AE/.499MegaBlaster - if you want this kind of power, buy a dang rifle.

Under Rated: 9mmP - Stay away from FMJ and you have an easy shooting round that you can place with surgical precision and be effective against 2-legged critters. Quality JHPs have made this an effective round that nearly anyone can handle.

denfoote
May 17, 2001, 03:56 PM
I do not deal that much with rifles. I have a Marlin 30AS chambered in 30-30, and a Model 60 in .22LR. These do for me what I want, so I guess that averything else is overrated. As touching the handgun question, I think that the most underrated cartridge is the 9x18mm Makarov. I have several pistols in this caliber. It is a decent, accurate round. I carry an E.German Makarov for CCW. I am rather P.O.'ed that there are not that many companies making defense rounds in this caliber. In the overrated catagory, and I know I will take heat for this, the .45ACP reigns supreme. It is expensive to shoot unless you reload (I do not), and reliable 1911 platforms are hediously expensive. Non 1911 weapons, such as the Glock 30 (which I own, and love) are just a tad to big for everyday carry here in the Arizona heat. I guess my main compliant is the cost of the round for practice. I fire just enough rounds in a practice session to insure that I can hit my target if necessary. Well there you have it. Flame On!!!!!!!

Shooter 973
May 17, 2001, 04:12 PM
Most over rated: Almost any belted magnum, never needed or saw the use for any of them.
Most under rated: 30-30, a lot more useful than most people think. maybe not a long range round but a great all purpose round for most shooting needs. Yes you can shoot it out to 300 yrds, or more.
Most over hyped: 40S&W middle of the road round that could vanish and neverb missed. Any thing it can do can be done by other rounds as well or better.
Most over rated handgun: a Glock of any type or cal.
There is no pride in owning "Combat Tupperware". When was the last ime you saw a Glock win any serious competitions.or be used by any of the big name shooters.
Mos under rated: any good quaility 357 revolver, in this day of auto loaders a good rev. is still hard to beat. Especially if you reoad your brass.

45King
May 17, 2001, 04:16 PM
Overated: Almost any cartridge with "Magnum" as part of the name.
Any gun, gadget, widget or whatever, with "Tactical" in the name. (If I ever see "Tactical Thumbtacks," I'm stopping the world to get off. Anyone who cares, please feel free to join me.)

Underated: .38 Special, .32 Magnum

Charmedlyfe
May 17, 2001, 05:35 PM
Actually, I and some friends made tactical thumbtacks once. Took thumbtacks, blasted them to a matte finish, then painted the tops black and OD green.......

Porter-Glockwell
May 17, 2001, 06:03 PM
Shooter 973: Most over hyped: 40S&W middle of the road round that could vanish and neverb missed. Any thing it can do can be done by other rounds as well or better.
Most over rated handgun: a Glock of any type or cal.
There is no pride in owning "Combat Tupperware". When was the last ime you saw a Glock win any serious competitions.or be used by any of the big name shooters.

So I guess I'm just a total loser with my Combat Tupperware Glock 23 in .40 :( great. Well, you'll have to come to Utah sometime and do baloon races with the TFL'ers here. No I didn't win, but that wussy Glock held its own just fine against the sea of much more expensive and customized 1911's. I'm sure it would do just fine against yours.

Don't get me wrong, I love 1911's, but I think they happen to be a little on the overrated side. (especially among TFL'ers) Lets see. $500 for a Glock that holds 13+ rounds and is OVERLY reliable out of the box, or $800 for a 7 shot 1911 that you will spend another $400 on just getting it to feed reliably and probably more to make it look "purty". :) I sold my antique and bought me a modern slab of polymer and tennifer steel. I'll never look back.

NOMEX ON

Halo
May 17, 2001, 06:21 PM
Why would a Glock be expected to win any "serious competitions"? It's a combat pistol. It's like asking why a $2500 competition gun jams after being left overnight in the mud.

Nightcrawler
May 17, 2001, 06:51 PM
Here we go again. Someone went and got the Glock people riled. Whenever anyone questions the "Glock Perfection" line, a whole lot of stuff comes down. Same thing with the AR-15 fans. The Glock is not the be-all and end all of handgun design, friends. As for the reference to the 1911 as an antique, I beg your pardon. Examine a diagram of the guts of the Roth-Steyr M.07, a World War One veteran. The system is VERY similar to the "safe-action" of the Glock. In other words, it's been done before.

"Combat pistol"? Sheesh. Who goes into combat armed only with a pistol? This isn't hollywood, friends. A pistol is a purely defensive weapon. Capacity isn't terribly important with a defensive weapon like a handgun. How many people carry 5-shot .38 snubbys to defend themselves? If you're going to get yourself into a gunfight, I strongly recommend you bring a shotgun or a rifle along.

So, let's try to avoid offending the more...sensative...members of TFL during this thread? Okay?

A.Rex
May 17, 2001, 07:11 PM
underrated rifle & pistol: .22 can do some surprising things.

ronin308
May 17, 2001, 07:25 PM
Rifle
Most overrated- 7mm Remington Mag
Most underrated- .25-06
Pistol
Most overrrated- .40 S&W
Most underrated- 9mm Para

Mike Irwin
May 17, 2001, 07:52 PM
Rifle

Most underrated -- .22-250 Savage. This is one of those cartridges that just gives and gives and gives and seems to demand nothing in return.

Overrated -- I'm tempted to agree with the .223. It's a great cartridge, but the .22-250 really does it better.

Overrated -- Easy. .44 Magnum. Yes, it's a great cartridge, but non-gun/semi-gun people STILL go into orgasmic spasms when the .44 is mentioned. Most powerful this, spatter the target that... Thanks, Callaghan.

Underrated -- I think consistently one of the most underrated handgun rounds is the lowly .22 Long Rifle. In this day and age of UberMagnums and high-capacity gee-whiz wonder guns, people have forgotten how much practice they can get in with a .22, and how stinking cheap it is.

I'll also agree that the .41 Mag. is TERRIBLY underrated. Since I got my Model 58 a year ago, I'm learning just how great this cartridge is.

IZZY
May 17, 2001, 08:06 PM
Hangun
Overated:
44 Magnum Lets be honest, most folks can't shoot it straight, for those who can substitute .25 auto, it may not even qualify as a round at all...I'd rather have a KA-BAR.

Underated:
.45 Colt ( Even with regular Winchester Super X 255 grains of pre-expanded lead just waitng to hit a bone and splatter some more, great Civilian revolver round)

Bud Helms
May 17, 2001, 09:09 PM
I agree with Chad Young. The most over-rated rifle cartridge is the .300 Win Mag (that's what you meant, right? Win Mag, not Rem Mag?).

The most under-rated rifle cartridge is the .250 savage, followed closely by the .300 Savage. Great cartridges. Especially the .250 in the Ackley Improved config.

Spectre
May 17, 2001, 10:12 PM
Hard one.

Overrated: Rifle: .300 WM
Pistol: .357 Magnum

Underrated: Rifle: (tie).250 Savage, .30-30
Pistol: 10mm


--------------------
we'd never die, just go through hell
and re-group again SM

shooter22
May 17, 2001, 10:38 PM
Over rated rifle--anything Weatherby Mag.
under rated rifle--270 win. It is still very popular, but still people rag on it as a big game gun.(elk, Big Horn sheep, others.)

overrated pistol--9mm.

Underrated--10mm

shooter22

radom
May 17, 2001, 10:43 PM
Hmmmm.

Overated Rifle---7mm mag.
Underated Rifle--257 Roberts or 25-35 Win.


Overated Pistol---40 S$W.
Underrated Pistol-41 S$W mag. or 9mm Para.

Ewok_Guy
May 17, 2001, 11:21 PM
Overated round : .454 Casull, .45 ACP, .233REM
Underated round : .22 WMR, 7.62x39, .380

Overated gun : M-16, AR-15
Underated gun : Mossberg 500, Marlin 60

Joe Gunns
May 17, 2001, 11:59 PM
overrated rifle: .223 numerous other better varmint loads, numerous better military loads.
Underrated rifle: .30-30 while not top choice for certain game, unlike McClellan, can really do it all, plus ammo can be found anywhere, including coffee cans in abandoned farmhouses.

overrated handgun round: .44 mag too powerful for social work, too weak for serious bears, (although better than most other handgun rounds for that type of work).
underrated handgun round: .38 in various loadings and powders has been doin' the job since 1851.

underrated shotgun round: 16 gauge, will do what a 12 will, in a kinder, gentler package.

BADSBSNF81
May 18, 2001, 04:05 AM
Rifle - overrated - anything that's overbore
Rifle - underrated - 250 Savage
Handgun - overrated - 40 S&W
Handgun - underrated - 32 magnum

Dr.Rob
May 18, 2001, 04:58 AM
Overrated.. civilian ar-15's and the 223, yeah you COULD kill an elk with a head shot but i wouldn't hunt big game with it. Ive seen more problems with these finicky rifles than any other autolaoder out there. Next overrated is the 7.62 x 39 russian.. if it had good softpoint bullets it MIGHT be as good as a 30-30 for game, but bullet selection keeps it "mild".

Underrrated, the good old 30-30. With a 180 grain bullet you can take most game in the lower 48. 30-06, still the best rifle for the lower 48, you can load from a 55 grain sabot up to a 220 round nose.. can't load that 220 in a 308 case. ;)

Overrated... all handguns to some extent. i really don't "get" the 357 SIG, ballisticly it looks good but it has a nasty tendency to suffer "bullet set back" far more easily than other rounds.

Underrated, the good old 38 special. Underrated 9mm, with so many choices the 9mm gets lost in 'power factors' and such. Good JHP's make these cartridges plenty lethal.

Dex56
May 18, 2001, 06:31 AM
Overrated: Magnum handguns.
Underrated: 9x18 Makarov :D

HankB
May 18, 2001, 08:22 AM
Overrated rifles: Most of the .300 magnums. If you need more power than a .30/06, then you really need to go to something in the .338 range.

Overrated handgun: The 1911. This may be heresy, but John Moses Browning was NOT the Almighty! A good 1911 is indeed a thing of joy, accurate, easy to shoot, and reliable. But it's hard to mass produce so it's accurate AND reliable AND affordable. Most examples today only satisfy 2 of these 3 criteria. (If you got a 2"@25 yard 1911 that's never malfunctioned for under $500, cherish it. And buy lotto tickets while your luck is running hot!)

Underrated rifle: The .22 rimfire.

Underrated handgun: The modern DA revolver.

Most overrated of all: Factory rifle ammo velocity. I've never chronographed a load from ANY manufacturer that actually produces within 150 fps of what the factory claims, even when barrel length is the same as on the charts.

CastleBravo
May 18, 2001, 08:36 AM
Overrated rifles: Whatever the Magnum Du Jour is. Most of them aren't doing anything that an ancient .35 Whelen (250gr loads at nearly 4,000 ft-lbs!!!) or .308 can't do.

Overrated pistol: Anything beyond .44 Magnum, since hardly anybody can even stand to shoot 'em!

Underrated rifle: I guess .308, because people keep coming up with more powerful versions of it! (See above)

Underrated pistol: 10mm. 135-220gr, 350-800 ft-lbs... what more do you want, a cookie? :D

Joe Demko
May 18, 2001, 10:38 AM
Overrated rifle: 7.62x39 The only thing that is good about this cartridge are the AK and SKS rifles that chamber it. It's pretty anemic with the fmj slugs and factory loadings.

Underrated Rifle: The .300 Savage. The .300 Savage was doing everything the .308 can do decades before the .308. The .308 was blessed by the military, otherwise it would have faded into obscurity.

Overrated pistol: Anything above .44 magnum. I get tired of hearing how powerful these cartridges are when all of them are puling weaklings by rifle standards.

Underrated pistol: .22lr All of us would do well to own a .22 and practice with it often. Training is important and the .22 lets you practice a lot for a little mney

viesczy
May 18, 2001, 11:28 AM
For rifles:
Over--The new line of Ultra Mags from Remington. Let's just crank up the pressure, give no real performance over existing rounds that can be reached with handloading and call the new calibers "ultra".

Under--375H&H. Rarely are you ever under gunned and occassionally you are over gunned, but there is no better game getter to bag critters with across the globe then the .375 H&H.

Handguns

Over--40S&W. Mediocre round that is "THE" round according to those "in the know".

Under--10mm Auto. About all the fun you can ask for in a defensive package that can be stretched to trail gun work (as long as there's a shoulder arm!) if you really need to.

Derek

Mikul
May 18, 2001, 12:04 PM
Overrated Rifle: The AK. They look cool, can be cheap, and function reliably. They make really nice suppressive fire weapons. Accuracy? Penetration?

Underrated Pistol Cartidge: No one will believe I'm going to say this: 9x19. The .45 and the 9 flip as being more effictive on several tests. Velocities of 1500fps are capable from a handgun. Someone needs to study this round carefully as small changes make big differences.

Underrated Pistol: H&K USP series. This gun is accurate, reliable, tough as nails, and of excellent quality. No one ever bad-mouths it, but no one is a big fan either.

Overrated Pistol Cartridge: .40S&W. The recoil of a .45 without the power. It's an effictive round, but I don't see the attraction.

Overrated Pistol: <heavy duty flame suit ON> Glocks. Good quality, good reliability, great price, but I find nothing outstanding about them. The religious following they have confounds me.

BigG
May 18, 2001, 01:20 PM
Overrated: Revos larger than 44 Magnum "What's the point?", Autos in 9mm Luger, 380 ACP, 32 ACP. Anything by Casull.

Underrated: 22 WMR Revos, especially S&W Model 48s. Ciener 45 Colt Auto conversion kits.

Overrated rifle: 7.62X39, 30 US Carbine, pistol caliber carbines and leverguns

Underrated: 308 Win, 375 H&H, 223

HankL
May 18, 2001, 09:18 PM
Pistol: Colt Delta 10MM (kinda tricked out} I can do my business out to 100 yds.
Rifle: I love the 7MM Weatherby for some strange reason.
The gun rag folk can rate anything they want to. I make my own choices. :)

WESHOOT2
May 18, 2001, 09:43 PM
but I know a bit about handgun cartridges.

Most overrated: 454 Casull. This cartridge truly is useless (45 Colt [Redhawk], with CORRECT factory ammo, does the same job).

Underrated: 9x19. Too many folks have the ".400" or bigger" mentality, but this round still does the job.

Stab at rifles.
Overrated: .17 Remington. A .223, 22 Magnum, .22-250 or 220 Swift won't make that much bigger hole in the pelt.

Underrated: 308. Cooper is right.

Drundel
May 18, 2001, 10:35 PM
Overrated Rifle Cartridge: .223
Underrated Rifle Cartridge: .22-250

Overrated Pistol Cartridge: 9mm. The x19 means you need 19 rounds to get the job done.

Underrated Pistol Cartridge: .41 mag. Just about identical performance with less recoil. .10 mm same performace as a .45 +p but with more rounds in mag.

A few comments... Why do you need a .454 Casull, just get a rifle? Becasue you want to hunt, not just kill, there is a difference.

.40 is same recoil as a .45 but with out the performace. What the heck .45 are you shooting? .45 +p in a light weight gun? By no means am I knocking the .45 but I like the 15 rounds I can get of .40.

Solitar
May 18, 2001, 10:46 PM
Over-rated rifle cartridge: .223 because, contrary to its reputation, especially with 55 grain bullets, it isn't really acceptable or reliable as a drop-'em-dead-in-their-tracks round for critters over 100 lbs. It's also too light for bucking average winds. OTOH 80 grain Sierras may get it up to decent performance (in punching holes in things other than paper).

Under-rated rifle cartridge: .22mag because for "only" a .22 rimfire it has far more ability to bring home meat for the table than one would expect from a mere .22 - given you don't use hollow points since they really are for destroying varmints. It is also used by poachers for deer - even mule deer in Western Colorado. (under 40 grains is too light for wind bucking though - even at 50 yards).

Over-rated handgun cartridge: the 10mm lite, aka .40S&W because, contrary to the hopes that spurred the design of the 10mm and the resulting reputation of its lite offspring, it really isn't much better than the .45 acp. Full power 10mm, OTOH, are a whole 'nuther critter that is underrated because most factory loads are wimped down.

Under-rated handgun cartridge: .32 auto because, contrary to those who dismiss it as peashooter, dimunitive little pocket pistols like the P32 or other 32's have been very deadly. Especially with +P ammo like Fiocchi's 60 grain JHP (1200fps), it rivals the .380 and is far more effective than the .25acp which also is regarded as a peashooter but has killed a lot of people (including one local here who came back into a bar with an ax and took a full clip of .25 in his chest).

Kernel
May 18, 2001, 11:09 PM
Great topic....

Overrated rifle: 300 Win Mag, et al. Come on guys. If you can't get within 300 yds of a deer maybe you shouldn't be hunting in the first place - stay at home and watch the game.

Overrated pistol: .454 Casul. "Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player, that struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more. It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing." - William Shakespeare. Bill may have been writing "Macbeth" but he was thinking .454.

Underrated rifle: 375 Winchester. Undoubtedly the best lever action cartridge ever developed for the Winchester 94 and Marlin 336 actions. Had it been introduced 30 years earlier maybe it would have caught on. Excellent in the Contender.

Underrated pistol: . 357 Magnum. The traits that made it the best defence/police cartridge of the 40s, 50s, 60s, and 70s still make it the best choice today. What America's cops should be carrying on their hips.

-- Kernel

444
May 18, 2001, 11:27 PM
Over rated rifle: I have to totally agree with the above post listing the .300 Win Mag. Just like he said, if you need something bigger than an '06, don't send a boy to do a man's job. Go .338 or .375 H&H.
Under Rated Rifle: .30-06 Springfield. Truely the rifle for the man that only owns one rifle. Proven track record on game riviling that of the .30-30. Proven military combat round in two world wars in bolt action, semi-auto and full auto weapons. Was used successfully on all North American game long before the "magnums" came around (The animals haven't changed). Has far greater range (flatter shooting) than the .30-30. Has a wider range of bullet selection than the .308 (110-220 plus sabots utilizing 50-55 grain bullets). Handloads are nipping at the heels of the .300 Mag. Match grade accurcy. I have taken several elk with an '06 and got complete through and through penetration with nice expansion. I am not sure what else you could want.
Over rated handgun: Glock anything. I own a Glock and wouldn't part with it. I would buy additional Glocks and be quite happy with them. However I see nothing in it that causes the religious fever it generates. Go figure.
Under rated handgun: .357 mag in a double action revolver. To my mind, the ultimate personal defense handgun. I think that huge magazines are a gimmick. The caliber is a proven top performer for personal defense. Adequate but marginal for deer sized game animals. Can go from 110 grain bullets to 180 grain bullets. As reliable as possible in a mechanical device. Simple to use. Flat shooting/High velocity for a handgun. Bullet selection provides penetration tuned to your needs. Can use very light .38s up to blockbuster .357 loads. Versitile; the '06 of the handgun world.

capnrik
May 19, 2001, 01:04 AM
My complements to the originator of this thread.

In Texas, the most over rated rifle cartridge is the 7mm Remington Magnum.

The "Sebben Mag."

My hunters used to be convinced that this cartridge was so good, they didn't have to aim.

Most under rated by far is the .308 Winchester. It gets NO respect from Texas hunters, but I promise you, when a client showed up with a .308, I knew he was a shooter.

Pistols? Most over rated is the 9mm. This cartridge is the reason hi-cap mags were invented. If you have to wait for the target to bleed to death, you might as well put in 15 holes...

Most under rated pistol cartridge is the .38 Special.

When it absolutely, positively has to bang every single time you pull the trigger....

Dagny
May 19, 2001, 12:10 PM
Most under-rated handgun - 38spl/357mag - the most versatile and effective range of loads available (from 200ftlb plinking to 600ftlb hunting)

Most over-rated handgun - 44mag - really too much for human assailants (overpenetration) and not enough for hunting (for which a rifle is better). Also the 9mm has been over-rated. Only by pushing +p can it get up to where it should be for anti-personnel, in other words, where the 45's were and the 40S&W is (both of which have hotter loads that go way beyond the wimpy 9mm). I understand there are some 10mm that can shoot 40S&W. But the springs couldn't handle the range from light 40 loads through hot 10mm loads - something a revolver handles without a problem - as with the 357.

Most under-rated rifle - 243 (a necked down 308) - easy to shoot, flat trajectory, and can be effective for any hunting short of really huge game. Same can be said for 25-06 and 6.5x55 Swedish.

Most over-rated rifle - 223 - great for varmints but for the intended and much-vaunted anti-personnel role we would have been better off to have selected something in the league of the 25-06 or 6.5x55 Swedish or even the 243.

(how can you tell I like the mid-range rifles;-)
they don't beat the snot out of me with recoil)

PJR
May 19, 2001, 04:21 PM
Overrated rifle -- .257 Weatherby. Bullets too light for velocity, burns barrels rapidly, way overbore.

Underrated rifle -- 6mmPPC. Not underestimated by the benchresters who love it but why it isn't the darling of the varmint set? Accurate, easy to load and shoot and almost pushing up to .243 velocities. With the right bullet you could hunt deer with it.

Overrated handgun -- .45ACP (flame suit on). Stopping power mythology aside, there are better options.

Underrated handgun -- .38 Special. Accurate, soft shooting and with +P hollowpoints capable of getting you through the night.

44rugerfan
May 19, 2001, 09:21 PM
Thanks capnrik. My brother-in-law came up this weekend. He had a Savage 7mm mag. I touched off three shots and handed it back to him. I am not a masocist. Nor am I recoil shy, I can shoot a 30-06 all day long. Interesting replies, though...

lucky085
May 24, 2001, 06:50 AM
Most underrated - 10mm - almost the perfect defense round - I have a glock 29 , and consider the recoil quite managable.

357 sig has been little mentioned, but this lower-recoil semi-auto version of the 357 magnum is also almost a perfect defense round.

Jager1
May 24, 2001, 06:22 PM
"Don't get me wrong, I love 1911's, but I think they happen to be a little on the overrated side. (especially among TFL'ers) Lets see. $500 for a Glock that holds 13+ rounds and is OVERLY reliable out of the box, or $800 for a 7 shot 1911 that you will spend another $400 on just getting it to feed reliably and probably more to make it look "purty". I sold my antique and bought me a modern slab of polymer and tennifer steel. I'll never look back."

Sorry, but they don't sell them with anything over 10 rounds anymore, so tack on another $300-400 to purchase the high capacity mags your Glock no longer comes with.

My first Kimber cost $525 at a time when Glocks were selling for around $425. I am approaching 11,000 rounds with zero problems. With exception of the mainspring housing and grips/grip screws for cosmetic reasons the pistol is all original. I just installed a Wilson 18.5 lb spring the other day just for giggles. And it will certainly meet or exceed your Glock in the accuracy department. No slide/frame wear, same old brittle extractor, link and link pin, firing pin spring... you name it. Want to know how many Glocks I've seen that can't make it to 5,000 rounds without recoil spring replacements or other tinkering? My second Kimber is approaching 5,000 rounds and will be neglected similarly.

Besides, if I wanted a spongy double action trigger, I'd carry a poorly made revolver.

High capacity? I'll keep my P226. The nemesis of the Glock 9mm series.

Shoot what you like. I do. And get a hobby, like barbing overly sensitive Glockaboom owners who are so easily baited.

RikWriter
May 24, 2001, 06:50 PM
Rifle:
Underrated: 223
Overrated: 7.62x39

Handgun:
Underrated: 10mm
Overrated: 357 Magnum

xtrarnds
May 24, 2001, 06:56 PM
Overrated:
Rifle: 30-06
Pistol: anything larger than a 44 magnum


Underated:
Rifle: 6.5x55 Swede
Pistol: 9mm Luger

CastleBravo
May 25, 2001, 08:46 AM
Wow, y'all just can't stay on topic, can you? It says CARTRIDGES, not handguns, yet naturally somebody has got to work in bashing 1911s and/or Glocks... :rolleyes:

And what the heck is there in Texas that needs a 7mm Mag??? I'm here and I haven't seen it yet. :D

capnrik
May 25, 2001, 06:08 PM
Ooooops, now hold on, CastleBravo, don't be talking about need. One of those sebben mag toters might mention the fact that I hardly need this many Colt's Single Actions! :D

Poodleshooter
May 25, 2001, 06:12 PM
Overrated rifle: Belted magnums. By the time the trajectory shows noticeable improvement, you're at the magical 300yd limit for game animals. Also, you burn about 2x as much powder for a 20% improvement in performance.

Underrated rifle: The 30/30. Thanks to a Win94 given to me by my groomsmen, I am learning to like this cartridge that so many use, but so few tout.

Overrated pistol: The .480 Ruger. What useful gap does this fill? Most have a difficult time controlling the .44 The few who don't get .454's. This is just a .454 light with harder to find bullets for reloading.

Underrated pistol: 38 Special. 3grs of powder, a bullet and a primer. It doesn't get much cheaper than that.

Glamdring
May 25, 2001, 10:04 PM
Over rated rifle: 30-06 [A 7x57/7-08/6.5x55 will do anything the '06 will do with far less recoil, which allows a lighter gun]

Over rated Handgun: 357 mag [A lot of blast/recoil for little power...the 10mm or 45 Super is better choice for same wt class gun with more power and less recoil IMO while 44 mag better choice for real power]


Under rated Rifle: 6.5x55 [If loaded to realistic pressures, not with the underloaded factory loads. Same could be said of the 257 Roberts and 7x57. I like the 6.5's better though & IMHO the 6.5 & 7mm have edge on big big game--elk & above--over the 257]

Under rated Handgun with factory loads: 44 mag [For mild recoil &/or defense loads you can use 44 specials or mid range 44 mag loads. While with full power magnum loads you can take anything with a 44 pistol you could with a 30-30 rifle with the same basic quibbles]

Under rated handgun with handloads: 32 Mag [You can make this a reloadable 22 rf with squib loads and cast bullets in 32 S&W shells. Or approach with heavy 32 bullets, not equal, the 357 mags performance with the lighter 357 bullets.]

MAD DOG
May 26, 2001, 09:55 AM
Most often over rated rifle round:
45/70

Most often over rated pistol round: .44 mag

Under rated rifle round: 6.5 X 55 mm Swede

Under rated pistol round: .22 Long Rifle