? .38/.357 ammo for shooting snakes?

[tyro]

Yesterday I had a confrontation with a cottonmouth snake at the beaver pond behind my house. This prompts me to ask for recommendations for a cartridge to use in my GP 100 to exterminate water moccasins.

[Mike Irwin]

CCI makes shot cartridges for .38/.357.

Those would be a good choice for up-close snake control.

[Chris McDermott]

For reloaders there is an interesting solution for snake loads at

http://gunblast.com/Snake_Stopper.htm

[Gunslinger]

As Mike said the shot loads from CCI are probably your best bet. But are you sure you want to shoot them?
Seriously. If they are in fact a cotton mouth and therefore venomous they need to be eradicated post haste. However, if they are harmless, nonvenomous water snakes, often referred to as water moccasins, you may be defeating your purpose. Common garden variety water snakes, usually a dirty brown in color, will comsume the food supply in a pound themselves. If there are enough of them they will consume the food there and make the area unattractive to cotton mouths, striking black in color with a snow white mouth. (Of course by the time you see the mouth and realize it is not a common black snake you are probably too late and way to close.)
Where I'm at I have problems with copperheads. For that reason I do no harm to every nonposonous snakes on the place....much to the chargin of Terri.;)

None of my business but food for thought.

[tyro]

Gunslinger,

You make good points, with which I heartily agree.

We have many kinds of snakes here, including harmless water snakes. All snakes are welcomed, unchallenged, and unharmed on my wooded and watered property, except for two: the copperhead and the cottonmouth.

I assure you that the snake I encountered yesterday has been positively and accurately identified as a venomous cottonmouth.

[tyro]

Mike & Gunslinger,

Many thanks for the CCI recommendations.

[JohnK]

That's an interesting solution on Gunblast and similar to one I've read about for years. The way that I've heard to make your own shot loads is to use 2 gas checks, seat one deep in the case - about where the base of a bullet would go - fill the case with shot and top it off with the second gas check, then taper crimp. It's supposed to work well on snakes etc at close range, I'd guess it would work better in 44 or 45 calibers due to the larger # of shot they would contain.

John
http://www.handloads.com

[Point Blank]

Sorry to butt in,but in my book...ALL snakes are venomous, and will be killed prompto!!!I am a very nice guy,and avoid killing anything,including a stray ant that makes his way in our "shack".But i have zero tolerence for a slithery,slimey snake!!!!Cant stand em....and one spotted close and by surprise will make this fat boy do the shuffle..hehe.

[Dave R]

Before you shoot a snake with the CCI pistol shotshells, pattern a few on paper first.

I bought a package of them (10 rounds?). The guy at the shop tried to talk me out of it. He said the rifling in the pistol makes the shot go in a donut pattern. With the hole where you aimed. I fired five of them on paper, at different distance.

Based on my sample of 5, the effective range from my 9mm is 3 feet (not yards). After that, the pattern was too sparse and donut shaped to give me confidence of a kill.

3 feet is a little too close for me, so I will stick with traditional loads for snakes.

[tyro]

Dave R.,

Many thanks for the tip. I've already ordered some CCI shotshells. I'll be sure to test them as you suggest. 'Wish I had read your post before I ordered, because it sounds like the phenomenon I found when firing shotshells from a rifled shotgun barrel - not an effective pattern for HD or SD.

[Doc Hudson]

If you ordered .38/.357 shotshells you will have better performance than using 9 mmP shotshells. For one thing, you have more shot and the shot capsule protects the shot from distortion.

I've used CCI shotloads and handloads using CCI Shot capsules for years, and have shreded beaucoup rattlesnakes and cotton mouths with them. Give the CCI's a try before you write them off.

Doc Hudson

[Drundel]

My dad and I went through this same thing. He decided not to buy any sanke shot for his .38 and instead took his .22 rifle with HP. The first day working on the ranch he shot a 3 foot long cotton mouth. He hit it but not enough to kill it on the road.

I'd go with the snake shot or a 12 or 20 gauge.

[beemerb]

I load my own so will add that.No 9 shot in plastic cap with 3 gr of bulleye behind it.Be sure to load capsule with end cap to the powder.I have shot a couple of rattlers with these loads to a range of about 15 feet with good effect.

[tyro]

Thanks, Doc.

I had ordered nine boxes of the CCI .38/.357 shotshells, so I'm quite happy to receive your reassurance re performance.

[M16]

I use regular hollow points. Just shoot their head off. Problem solved.

[Clemson]

Tyro, for your reassurance. I can break about 3 out of 4 skeet from station #8 with the CCI shot loads from my 4" model 686. Distance is probably about 10 feet (I am guessing here. Skeet shooters chime in!). I have killed two copperheads with the same load. From snake shooting distance, about 6 feet, the stuff will shred a snake.

[tyro]

Thanks, Clemson. Sounds like fun. We have copperheads in the woods, as well as cottonmouths at the creek and beaver pond. Your report re CCI shotshell performance has me looking forward to carrying them in my GP 100 during all my walks through the woods from now on.

[skipperJ]

I would take the above suggestion of Dave R and shoot a couple at paper to see how the pattern developes out of your handgun. My tests with CCI shotshells are much like his and I agree the effective range is very short.

The snake stopper load information is very interesting and I think I'll try it - only in .44 Special instead.

[Red Label]

"Sorry to butt in,but in my book...ALL snakes are venomous, and will be killed prompto!!!I am a very nice guy,and avoid killing anything,including a stray ant that makes his way in our "shack".But i have zero tolerence for a slithery,slimey snake!!!!Cant stand em..."

Very few snakes are venomous. And they're scaley as opposed to "slimey". As was said in two other posts -- the non-venomous ones will eradicate the venomous ones. Out here in Montana, we have many rattlers, and we have many bull snakes. The bull snakes kill rattlers. When you first bump into them they hiss rather loudly and may frighten you at first. But once identified they are left alone.

I NEVER shoot at something unless I know EXACTLY what I am shooting at. Snakes, animals, or other.

[Point Blank]

Sorry,i used "slimey" as a figure of speech.When i was young and dumb,i caught countless gardener snakes with my hands(even the ones with their mouths open looking at me..hehe)I guess i just have a thing about snakes,ALL of them!!!Living here in Georgia and being a fisherman i have had encounters with cottonmouths also.Too me ALL snakes are cottonmouths...and will be dealt with accordingly.....

[RWK]

Tyro,

My parents live on a large pond in costal SC. They, too, have a had a few cottonmouths close to their home and -- since they are both 80+ years old -- asked me to address the problem.

I decided to use a revolver, rather than any of my autoloaders, because I was not certain CCI snake shot would have adequate recoil to cycle the weapon. And I also decided to use one of my KGP-141s, rather than either of my Smith 627s, because the four-inch barrel is faster to aim.

Long story short, I found two cottonmouths sunning themselves by he pond bank within fours days. Both easily dispatched from 9 - 12 feet with a single round of CCI .38 Special snake shot. Point of aim and impact was the head, and the snake shot really was effective. One snake lived (moved) perhaps 10 seconds after impact, the other appeared instantaneously dead. I let them both lie about an hour, then picked them up with a shovel, and deposited each in a newly dug two foot deep hole.

Both cottonmouths were 2.5 to 3.5 feet long and had a hefty girth.

My parents have seen no further cottonmouth activity during the last two months, so I presume the problem -- at least for this year -- is resolved.

Bottom line: GP-100 (four in or longer barrel) and .38 Special CCI snake shot was highly effective.

Regards.

[tyro]

RWK,

What a great response.

The gun I will be using is, like yours (of course, you helped me decide to get it :)) a KGP-141, and the CCI snake shot is on order from cheaperthandirt.com.

[Mal H]

tyro - I'm jumping in a little late here. I agree that the CCI shot shells are the way to go.

But my reason for responding is a statement you said yesterday - "We have many kinds of snakes here, including harmless water snakes." I always consider all water snakes as dangerous. I could swear I heard or read that they are at some time in the distant past.

We also have some good snakes around our home and a few bad'uns. When I see a Black snake or one of the other good guys, I say "Howdy Mr. Snake" and we both go on our merry way. But if I saw one of the two you mentioned, I'd whip out my trusty ol' GP-100 and say, "Hold still Mr. Snake, you're not going to like this." (If you talk to 'em, it confuses 'em. :) )

[tyro]

Mal,

'Good to hear from you. Here is my authority for the comment re "harmless water snakes":

“WATER SNAKEs are chiefly eastern species (nine) of lakes and rivers. They show little adaptation to water life but are actually fine surface and underwater swimmers. They seek water when molested and there find their food, mainly fish and frogs. Heavily built, with short, narrow tails, they are harmless and should not be confused with the venomous southern Cottonmouth. However, Water Snakes are usually vicious; do not tame or become good pets.” - quoted from Reptiles and Amphibians: A Guide to Familiar American Species (212 species in full color), published by Golden Press, 1953.

So, "Water Snakes" are "harmless" but "vicious".

'Easy to see how "vicious" could be interpreted as not "harmless". But the fact remains that the only water snake in my region of North Carolina that is venomous and therefore potentially harmful to me and to my family & friends is the Cottonmouth - like the 3+ foot, thick girthed specimen that was lying within 2 feet of striking distance along my creek/beaver pond path when I stopped walking and noticed him (just in time) a couple of days ago - that is one mean, serious snake.

[Mal H]

Thanks, tyro. Maybe it was the "vicious" part that I read about long ago. Frankly, I don't want any snake "harmless" or not to even think about attacking me. At best, I might get hurt stumbling/bumbling to get out of its path. At worst, I might drown. And remember, death is just natures way of telling us to slow down. :)

[Bogger]

Tyro: I've used several combinations of shot shells for rattlers when we're prairie dogging out west, mostly Wyoming. My observations much as the other posters have related hinge on caliber and whether a shot capsule was used. My opinion is obviously the larger the caliber and more shot, the better the result. Also shot capsules along with moderately loaded rounds improve results. I have also done some informal patterning to strenghten my beliefs. The reason I wrote this was not merely to repeat what everyone stated, but to relate information I had read some time ago. According to the testing in the article, a short barreled large caliber round using a capsule gave the best results. The short barrel it was theorized would limit the affect of the rifling. Just some thoughts, good luck......Bogger