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Brock
February 18, 2001, 04:33 PM
Hi folks.

I've been reading the boards the past few days looking for information to help me decide about a hand gun purchase. One thing I noticed was a curious absence of any discussion on laser sights. Does anyone here have an opinon on laser sights for both CCW and recreational shooting? Are they even legal?

Thanks.

Mike Kilo Niner
February 18, 2001, 05:30 PM
Sure they're legal -- most folks choose not to use them since for a variety of reasons. When I bought my first handgun I was trying to decide between a Sig P228 and an HK USP Compact, both in 9mm. I bought the Sig because I wanted to mount a Crimson Trace Lasergrip on it.

That was an excellent training tool for me -- you really learn to hold the gun steady when aiming when you see how much the dot dances around at first. The Lasergrip was rugged, bright, stayed zeroed and met all expectation but one: it was difficult for a lefty to operate naturally.

The pressure plate is on the left side of the grip, which put it sort-of-but-not-quite under my shooting hand. So as I squeezed the trigger (especially DA), I tended to release pressure on the switch. DOH! Right-handed, it was perfectly natural and flawless. So I replaced the Lasergrips with a pair of rubber Hogue grips and use only iron sights now.

[shameless plug mode]
My old Lasergrips are for sale under the Gear/Accessories category. They fit both P228 and P229 models. They work great, just not for a lefty like me.
[/shameless plug mode]

Brock
February 18, 2001, 08:52 PM
After looking around at the different options on laser sights the Crimson Trace seemed to be the most rational approach... no wires... no button/switch to push forward of the trigger gaurd, etc.

Not having any experience with them though I was wondering how visible they are during normal outdoor daylight shooting situations.. say at 100 feet or so, are they still visible or would that be pushing the envelope for a laser in broad daylight?

Brock

Mike Kilo Niner
February 19, 2001, 11:58 AM
I've mostly used them in the dark or indoor shooting range where they show up easily all the way to the backstop. From what I've heard, they're usable in broad daylight out to 15 feet or so, but I've never tried it myself.

MilesTeg
February 21, 2001, 01:01 AM
I agree with MKNiner's viewpoint on the value of lasergrips. However, I differ on one point. I am a lefty and have the CTC on my 92FS and a S&W 66 and I do not have a problem with either. Righties activate the grip as they pull the trigger. This action tightens the grip around the pad and that activates the laser. If you hold it left handed, you will seen that you have even greater control while using your middle and ring fingers to activate the grips. At least for me on the 92FS - it might be different on the SIG because of grip size. On the 66 it does not matter since the button in centered under and behind the trigger guard. Either the right or left middle finger will activate the laser.

As for daylight, maybe at close range but I have a hard time finding the dot in daylight and that defeats the purpose. It also helped me correct flinching and other problems. I am now more accurate without the laser because of the practice I did with it.

Be real careful when cleaning your firearm. Any solvent, cleaner or oil will destroy/mess up your lens and you will get a huge unfocused dot (not that it happenned to me)(BTW CTC is great on repairs and customer service).

I think you will find common agreement that lasers are fun for plinking and informal target shooting. Although the fun factor does not last forever. When you talk about CCW and HD then people tend to differ dramatically. Just like some people like Glocks and some don't. I think it has a place in self-defense but not at the expense of iron sights and a lot practice. Some say they completely replace iron sights. Others will tell you that it has no place at all. Others yet, will say never but at the same time they will use a mounted flashlight for the same purpose. To each his own.

They are expensive but the CTC's are the best you can get. I have attached a link with some pretty good prices.

http://www.shooterssupply.com/berettalasergrips.htm

Good luck and enjoy.

Coronach
February 21, 2001, 03:01 PM
They do NOT replace your regular sights.

That said...

1. wonderful for trigger control exercises (hey, numbskull, its unloaded, right?)

2. they have a lovely intimidation factor when the BG sees a glowing red dot on his anatomy where the bullet will strike (this is reasonably well-documented, though no, I don't have references in front of me)...assuming you have a don't-shoot-(yet) scenario where you will give the BG time to consider his options.

No, I don't own one...other than a cheapo bolt-on-the-trigger-guard one that I got as a gift...and it is useful only for #1 above.

Mike

Mike Kilo Niner
February 21, 2001, 05:39 PM
Miles Teg,

Yeah, the Sig Lasergrips are different -- there's a small button on the left grip that activates the laser. Right under the middle finger of the shooting hand for righties. Difficult for lefties to keep depressed with their palm during firing, since it's so small.

Maybe I shoulda got the Beretta after all... :)

MilesTeg
February 21, 2001, 07:08 PM
Mike Kilo Niner,

I have question for you on the SIG. I find my Beretta's and Khar to be very left handed friendly. How does the de-cocker work on the SIG for a lefty? I shot a friend's 220 and liked it alot but I could not get past the de-cock.

Very kind comment on the Beretta :cool:. I will in turn say that the SIG is a very fine pistol :). Those of us in the "right mind" need to stick together ;)!

Miles

dawg23
February 22, 2001, 03:13 PM
I have two Crimson Trace lasers on Glocks. I have had some mixed experiences with their customer service, and the bad experiences were pretty bad. This is an expensive toy if you consider that you may get poor service.