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View Full Version : time for a 12 ga. which one?


CBlackjr
January 30, 2001, 04:17 PM
I finaly going to get a new shotgun but I want something "cool." I am looking to buy a 12 ga. shotgun in the 300 to 400 dollar range. I going to dub it a home defense shotgun so I want as shot a barrel as CA law permits. What ever I get I want to be able to modify it to include a shoulder stock-pistole grip combo. If possible I would love to have a semi but a pump would be fine. I don't need a fancy wood finish either a durable black plastic would be perfect.

sgoeing
January 30, 2001, 04:20 PM
Not much more to be said!!!!

tyro
January 30, 2001, 04:25 PM
Another vote for the Remington 870. Consider a used Police Magnum.

CBlackjr
January 30, 2001, 04:35 PM
thank for the info guys it looks like I am going to be looking a the rem 870

Kernel
January 30, 2001, 09:06 PM
Despite (or maybe because of) it's 1950's technology a 870 is never a bad choice, especially if you think you need all those aftermarket goodies. If you can afford a little more coin and are looking for a state-of-the-art 21st Century pump consider a Benelli. Lately I've been thinking I need a good 20 gauge field gun. That small frame 870 with a 24" barrel carries might light and with premium 3" shells hits as hard as a 2-3/4" 12 gauge. -- Kernel

Romulus
January 30, 2001, 10:05 PM
I have a stunning Ithaca pump, Model '87 M&P, and all considered it's a better pump than my 870 - in my humblest opinion. I would recommend it above the 870, sorry, folks. Love that bottom ejection which ought to serve southpaws quite well. After a few years in cosmoline it's aquired that beautiful greenish patina which looks great next to an otherwise unmemorable walnut stock.

PS: anyone know about the "trigger disconnect" on this Ithaca. I was told it lacked one, I was never adventurous enough to test it...

jhunnetaz
January 30, 2001, 11:32 PM
check out

Mossberg 590A1 !!!!

not regular 500's or 590's,.
..it must be the "590A1"!

Romulus
January 31, 2001, 12:17 AM
The one thing I really appreciate about Mossbergs is the thumb-safety, just like on an old Savage I had...why haven't the others caught on? Other than that, I have misgivings about the alloy receiver. I would like to know if that's just prejudice, or...

I'm still looking for the "perfect" HD shotgun...

Captain Bligh
January 31, 2001, 07:11 AM
Romulus, top-o-the-receiver safeties haven't caught on because there is a big enough market of those of us who don't like them. Somebody has to fill that need and thank God it's Remington, eh?!

I've always thought Mossy safety use involved a wasted motion when you're trying to get into action. You have to move your thumb to the top of the receiver. On my Remington or Browning A=5, my finger is right where it needs to be anyway.

RJ

Bowser
January 31, 2001, 07:52 AM
When you buy a Remington 870, you are buying the most tried and trusted pump action shotgun of all time. You are also buying American. Both of these points are important.


Bowser.

Dave McC
January 31, 2001, 08:03 AM
Kernel, anytime you want to shoot Mano a Mano against me and my old and outdated 870s, call me. Bring a little side money(G)....

When the last Benelli hit the junkyard, the man throwing it away will take comfort in the fact that his 870 still workd fine...

Like the Springfield 03, the C-47, and the 1911 GM, some things just do not wear out easily, and any improvements possible are minor and oft only cosmetic.

jthuang
January 31, 2001, 11:15 AM
Romulus,

The Ithaca 37 (and I suspect your 87) was made without a disconnector, which means you can hold down the trigger and work the slide for rapid fire. If you try this on a modern Remington or Mossberg, it won't fire when you slam the slide home, as the disconnector prevents this. The old Winchester trench broom also lacked a disconnector, at least as used in WWI action.

The bottom ejection of the Ithaca is also a good feature for southpaws. You'd think this would catch on with gun designers (as with the tang mounted safety, another idea I love) but if you ask me, left-handed people don't get a fair shake in the gun industry. Only the most popular of guns are offered in left-hand configuration (e.g., Remington 700, certain Benelli shotguns).

My beef with the Remington 870 is well known here so I won't repeat them.

Justin

Romulus
January 31, 2001, 11:55 PM
Jthuang, I haven't heard your beef about the 870. Would it be bad form to repeat it to a newcomer on the forum? I actually like my 870, it just doesn't have the class of the Ithaca. Aesthetically speaking now, I won't besmirch the good the gun has done over the years...

Cheers

Kernel
January 31, 2001, 11:55 PM
Dave, why you bustin' my balls? I like 870s too. I recommended it to CBlackjr and plan to buy a 20ga for myself. I mentioned Benelli only because it's something different, it's in the range of his $400 high end, and I (and pretty much everybody else in the know) think they make an excellent product. I guess in my universe there's room for more than one shotgun, or pistol, or airplane, or rifle, or whatever. -- Kernel

Romulus
February 1, 2001, 03:12 AM
Tyro, where can you get a used police 870? Do they auction off? Are the sales advertised? Any chance they'd be sold to the public here in Californication...?

Tom B
February 1, 2001, 07:01 AM
Winchester 1300 Defender with extended mag and 18.5in barrel.

Dave McC
February 1, 2001, 07:56 AM
Kernel, I spoke in jest, and I regret it wasn't obvious. Sorry.

Romulus, most depts rotate their inventories every ten years or so. They turn them in for credit towards new ones and tend to use local shops to do so. For a brief period, there's lots of used LE weapons on the market and good deals. Around 90 I bought what formed the basis for my deer 870 for $150(Arlington Va PD cruiser gun), and a salvaged receiver($65) from the MD Pen is the frame for Frankenstein, my wingshooting 870. Total cost on that one was about $140.

There was also a Mossy 500 for $65 back around 78, and some 870 turnins I saw recently for less than $200, in fair condition.

Some old threads here have plenty of info about these....

tyro
February 1, 2001, 09:59 AM
Romulus, I got my 870 Police Magnum LNIB from a local gun shop. A police officer had used it to "qualify" for his job, and then returned it to the dealer in practically new condition, with the original paperwork/manual packet not even opened. Such a deal may not be widely available, but it is well worth a little time and effort looking for it, and fortunate is the man who finds it. I now have two 870's, and by comparing the two, I find that the Police Magnum has a heavier (thicker) barrel, and a much more substantial follower. I have read that there are other differences, not obvious to me, that make the Police Magnum a superbly reliable choice for HD (for one thing, it has a longer, heavier magazine spring). The civilian 870 is renowned for durability and reliability, but the Police Magnum is even better.

Scott Conklin
February 1, 2001, 10:22 AM
Mossberg 590. Stick some Ghost Rings on it if it doesn't have 'em, slap a folder on it and enjoy. Oh, and since the 870 came out in '50 wouldn't that make it 1940's technology? :)

bullseye
February 2, 2001, 12:03 AM
Romulus, I wouldn't have misgivings about the alloy receiver on the Mossberg. Metalurgy has come a long way and aluminum can perform as well as steel in many cases. Witness the AR alloy receivers and the many fine pistol frames that are made from aluminum. The Mossberg 590A1 with it's "alloy" receiver passed the tough military qualification tests that others with steel receivers failed.

lunde
February 2, 2001, 09:02 AM
All of the pressure from firing shotgun rounds is primarily directed at the chamber, which is part of the barrel, and thus steel. Alloys can work well if made and used properly, so I agree with the previous poster's assessment.

jthuang
February 2, 2001, 12:32 PM
Romulus,

For my thoughts on the 870, you can jump to my website at http://www.members.tripod.com/~jth8260/plsas.html and click on the link dealing with the Mossberg vs the Remington.

One day, when I get done paying my student loans, I want an Ithaca 37, just to try emptying the magazine by working the slide and holding down the trigger. :) That's gotta be as much fun as "bump firing" your AK47 clone.

Justin