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Apeach
January 12, 2001, 11:22 AM
Ok, the full auto discussion board needs more talk, so I'll post this. I don't know much about the HK G11 besides that it's caseless. If anyone knows the caliber, mag capacity, or any other fun stuff like that, could you post it? I'd like to know a little more. Also, if anyone knows if anybody is using the rifle, post that too. I'd like to know who has the money to buy guns like that.

Spatula
January 12, 2001, 12:02 PM
No one besides HK R&D people (maybe?) in the world is useing this rifle. I saw one in the closet of Ft. Benning's Army museum about two years ago. There are also the ones from Colt and Styer. It looked like a toy. Maybe it was just a mock-up


G11 (http://www.hkpro.com/g11.htm)
G11-2 (http://www.remtek.com/arms/hk/mil/g11/g11.htm)

Apeach
January 12, 2001, 11:34 PM
Thanks for the info. I remember reading somewhere that the West German army was going to equip their army with G11s, but then west and east Germany were integrated, and they had to spend the money on other stuff. Those video clips were cool too. I had no idea that the thing on top was the magazine. And that it moved back. The 2000 rpm in 3rb is amazing too.

4V50 Gary
January 12, 2001, 11:55 PM
HK USA has one and they had some ammo too, but they burned it up playing with it. :( They brought it out to show to us during Armorer's School.

Badger Arms
January 13, 2001, 12:32 AM
I watched video of a guy shooting the G-11. This was a soldier who was testing the gun at a high-tech range they designed for the ACR project, I think. Problem was, the gun would JUMP off the shoulder with each burst. The recoiling mechanism of the gun jumps forward after the burst is through and the gun jumps off the shooters shoulder when it reaches its full forward travel. I like the 2000rpm rate of fire, but the concept is flawed in the respect of controllability. Of the ACR rifles, I liked the Steyr gun the most. It was short, handy, and had very little recoil.

Advanced concepts are cool, but aren't necessarily practical. It's interesting that HK abandoned the G11 but not all the technology. Some G11 research was applied to the G36 and new UMP and PDW projects.

They were attempting, IMNTBHO, to make the leap from Wright Flyer to F-15 in one step. The F-15 is good, but resulted from years of concept development and fielding of intermediate technologies.

Apeach
January 13, 2001, 11:38 PM
Interesting comparison, but I think with some more work, the G11 could have been a success. And I like the idea of the caseless rifle, but there is probably a better way to do it. I wonder if (or when) the US will ever adopt a caseless rifle.

Nightcrawler
January 14, 2001, 01:18 AM
You can expect to see the US military using the M16 up into the 2020s. Rifles have a way of getting ingrained in the Service, and the military has already said they won't adopt a new weapon until there's a "significant increase" in its abilities. It's a shame, too, as there are some rifles that are a lot better than the M16, but that's another matter altogether.

Anyway, a caseless rifle really doesn't give the individual shooter a big advantage over the guy with the M16 or the AK-74. I've been turning over in my mind what guns will look like in 50 years, and have come to the conclusion they won't be too different.

IF the military adopts a new rifle in the near future, it'll likely still be chambered in 5.56mm or some similar caliber, but there are some advancments you might see.

-Lighter, stronger, more use of advanced composites like carbon fiber. Professional Ordnance already produces an AR-15 variant that weighs 3.9lbs.

-You might end up seeing a weapon that's completely nonmetallic, but that would require a significant advance in materials technology

-synthetic bullet casings, new propellants. Perhaps they'll be able to make a cartrige with a case length of, say, 25mm that performs the same as 5.56x45mm.

-Internal recoil absortion. The Russians have already experimented with this in their AN-90 rifle prototype. Imagine being able to fire something chambered in a full power rifle caliber on full auto, yet being able to keep the sights on target with no loss of accuracy.

-Advanced sighting technologies. You may see, in the future, a device that is as compact as a typical modern rifle scope, but can zoom in and out, has night vision or infra-red, automatically corrects its zeroing for the distance of the target, a built in laser rangefinder, and stuff like that. I just hope they don't forget the iron sights! EMP weapons will become common int he future, and it'd be a shame to not be able to use your weapons because your platoon got hit with one measly EMP grenade!


Aside from that...in 2050, assuming the laws havent' gotten out of hand, expect to be able to walk into a gun shop and be able to pick up a 1911, a Winchester 94, and an AR-15. Some guns just never go away!

Daniel Watters
January 14, 2001, 09:32 AM
A couple of the items Nightcrawler mentioned can be done now. Why couldn't you couple a Carbon 15 with a AAC slow-fire buffer and/or the Counterpoise system?