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Gopher
January 7, 2001, 07:28 PM
Went to the Market Hall show in Dallas today and saw one dealer with a Norinco copy of a Remington 870. It had a 7 round tube (I think) with rifle sights and a hooded ghost ring rear. The dealer had it tied down with an alarm system and didnt get to play with it but it looked pretty good. I've seen the Ithaca 37 copies floating around and this gun looked like it was much better made. They were asking $229. Anyone seen, read about, or have any trigger time on one?

wakal
January 7, 2001, 09:46 PM
I picked up the first one I saw, and messed with a it a bit. Out of the box, nothing wrong with it at all (except the Chinese copied the 870 a little too well, stupid dimples in the mag tube :( ). Had fun customizing it, you can see pictures in the "Rifles and Shotguns For Sale" section.

An even hundred rounds fired (not enough to form a judgement, but a start) with no malfunctions.



A

Makarov9x17
January 8, 2001, 01:38 AM
I recieved one as a christmas present and it has been
reliable with the 100 rounds I put through it so far.
I use it for home defense loaded with #4 buckshot.

Dave McC
January 8, 2001, 08:24 AM
First, it's made by slave labor in the largest remaining dictatorship on Earth, and the poor B*$tards that make it cannot own one.

Second, there's tons of great used and new 870s out there at reasonable prices.Why not spend your money on a US made weapon of great longevity and durability, made by free men and women and of better steel?

cuerno de chivo
January 8, 2001, 10:28 AM
we won't know greater durability or longevity until these shotguns have been around for awhile.

what proof is their of 'better steel'?

i'm also pretty sure that prison labor doesn't make small arms in china for norinco.

i'm a u.s citizen, and i am d*mn sure not free. more free than chinaman in china, but not free. china would be selling us u.s. civillians their great aks, but our government won't let them.

Shin-Tao
January 8, 2001, 10:52 AM
Dave Mcc

Do you really think no one has heard you say that yet?

PJR
January 8, 2001, 11:59 AM
I've heard Dave say it before and it's well worth hearing more than once. That's the funny thing about the truth, it rarely gets tiresome.

Possibly, there is merit in buying a Norinco model if it is unlike anything that is available domestically like an SKS. But when they are flooding the market with cheap 1911s, 870s and M1A1s the purpose is to put American manufacturers out of business with often second rate products. I can't comment directly on the 870s but the Norinco M1A1 and the 1911 are not as good as those made domestically particularly when it comes to quality control.

Maybe "slave labor" is overstating but it is certainly sweat shop labor. Owning a shirt made in a sweatshop is one thing but an implement that might to used to save your life is a very different matter.

ruger357
January 8, 2001, 12:35 PM
I'm with Dave 110%. Buy U.S.

Shin-Tao
January 8, 2001, 10:03 PM
Of cource Dave has a valid point hidden in his repitition.

However, this isn't the first time I have pointed out that China isn't a Dictatorship, Norinco factories aren't crewed by slaves, and Chinese citizens do have personal firearms.

Dave McC
January 9, 2001, 05:44 AM
Shin, these are the folks that brought us Tienamen(sp?) Square. There's no political party other than the Communist Party.There's no newspapers that publicly disagree with the Party line. Dissidents go to prison or get executed. People that have excess children get forced abortions.

Amnesty International reports that more than 10,000 Chinese each year are confined/executed for crimes ranging from inciting "resistance" to trying to leave China.

My guess is, any subject of the ChiCom government that is found in possession of one of these 870 clones(Bet they don't pay royalties either) without specific permission to have one will get a small caliber bullet in the back of his/her head for their attempt to control their own lives....

PJR
January 9, 2001, 06:52 AM
Well this may be getting off the original point but if it's not a dictatorship why would their people pay thousands of dollars to criminal gangs to be stuffed into freighter holds to come illegaly to North America knowing that if they are returned (a likely prospect) they face the bullet in the back of the head. If they do make it they end up in bonded service (drug running, prostition, etc.) to pay off their debt.

If it's a place of personal freedom why have billions of dollars flooded Western Canada and the United States from Hong Kong in advance of the colony's return to the Chinese. (I was in HK just a few months before the handover and the most valuable article was a foreign passport followed by a healthy off-shore bank account.)

Shin-Tao
January 9, 2001, 07:24 AM
Well of cource it's pretty bad, but still. The system of government isn't Dictatorship. Dictatorship isn't defined as "mean". Dictatorship is a system in wich ONE man calls the shots. The Chinese president doesn't have such firm control. What he wants isn't always what he gets.
Sadaam Hussein is a Dictator. He's the man in his government. You can't disagree with him in the slightest. You'll be shot instantly. Not so in China. Officals and functionarys, party members, disagree with the president daily.

Additionaly, one of the biggest privately run shooting ranges in the world is in Beijin. Private citizens, not just foreiners or the elite, can shoot there. SKSs, Type-56s, 870 clones, M14 clones, whatever they want.
They also have an actual Militia in wich they are given military smallarms, wich they keep in their homes. Usualy the SKS.

Didn't mean to sound like a smart-a$$.

Zander
January 9, 2001, 12:04 PM
"...the [Norinco] 1911[s] are not as good as those made domestically particularly when it comes to quality control."

Apparently you haven't owned one. I've had several...and the last used one I sold went to a dealer who builds race guns. The steel in the 1911A1 is quite good and quality control for Norinco in 1994 [the last year that Norinco battle rifles and pistols could be imported...remember Slick's EO?] was quite acceptable.

No M1A or 1911A1 that you buy today will put a penny in the pockets of the Red Chinese.

That said, I'd no more buy a current Norinco import than I'd buy from the traitors at *&*.