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View Full Version : Glock VS 1911 - Which is better for personal defense ?


G35
October 16, 1998, 02:13 PM
Glock VS 1911 - Which is better for personal defense ?

Rob Pincus
October 16, 1998, 04:12 PM
I have to try to make the argument for the Glock, based on the following:

It is simple.
Draw and fire.


That is the biggest argument I can make, and it is the ONE I am 100% certain cannot be disputed.

other than that, in decreasing order of relevance to self defense:

out-of-the-box reliablility.
trigger pull (less likely to "stress-fire")
magazine capacity
one syllable name sounds cooler.

[This message has been edited by Rob (edited 10-21-98).]

Valdez
October 17, 1998, 01:44 PM
The short answer is the Glock, especially if further specifics aren't given. Why? Simple. The Glock is an inherently more reliable design.

I don't put as much weight on the difficulty of dropping the safety on the 1911, but some might. If the 1911 is reliable with the ammo used, then it is purely up to the personal preference of the shooter.

deshongx2
October 19, 1998, 12:38 AM
I would add only one thing, court defensible. Why do more police forces ime beating the gloarry glock than anything else? If the cops won't carry it why would a resonable and prudent person. I've carried the 1911, and love them but all around you'll have a hard time beating the glock. When your in court after the shooting, whether criminal or civil, the jury won't understand "cocked and locked". They will understand your concern for safety in choosing what most police forces consider safe.

Steve Koski
October 21, 1998, 01:31 PM
Come on G35, you know better than to ask a stupid questions like that.

Your friend,
Steve Koski

Kodiac
October 21, 1998, 03:30 PM
Hmmm... thats a tough choice... Not.

Rob is right... One syllable words are cooler.

Joe Paige
November 13, 1998, 11:59 AM
My reply is the one you shoot better with, assuming both are reliable.

I shoot my modestly customized Colt 1991A1 GM better and more easily than any non-single action gun. The reason, the trigger.

However, I am getting a Glock 35. The reason, ammo capacity. I have also tried Glocks whose owners have done a little polishing here and there, and come up with smoother Glock triggers.

As an aside, I now sometimes carry my Glock 30 vs. my Colt, becuase of the clothes I wear. The Colt hammer can get hungup in sweaters during presentations. The Glock design minimizes this.

I was going to get a Glock 22, but the G35 came out. I did not like the G23 too hot; it did not feel as good in my hands as the G22.

4V50 Gary
November 13, 1998, 05:04 PM
Given the parameters that we're only talking about self-defense and not aftermath litigation, it depends on which gun the shooter is more competent and confident with.

ShadedDude
November 13, 1998, 11:19 PM
Now here all these people are sitting here saying that Glock is a better defence gun...while in the mean time if I was depending on a Glock for my life I would be killed.

Fact is...I CANT HIT ANYTHIGN WITH A GLOCK!

The having to drop the hand to make the barrel go where I want it doesnt fit my gunnery vocabulary. However I have been shooting 1911's since I was 18.

So in that case it would come down to...which ever one you can shoot and feel confident with.

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Mouse Assassins inc.

SB
November 14, 1998, 02:16 AM
I dunno, but I personally think the two are different animals. The choice between the two depends on your operational doctrine. For example, some believe in external safeties and being able to carry cocked&locked, while others don't believe in any external safeties.. you know what I mean.. and not carrying with a round in the chamber.

Among other things I'm sure.

[This message has been edited by SB (edited 11-14-98).]

bald1
November 14, 1998, 08:48 AM
I concur with SB that these guns are different animals. And, like Shaded Dude, I can really shoot my cocked 'n locked guns (1911A1, BHP, PT99AF, etc.). The deal with the Glock is simple: folks either love them or hate them. I'm in the later camp....can't stand them and their trigger group. And they're not even heavy enough for a decent boat anchor....totally useless for me!!!!

-=[Bob]=-

jwong
November 14, 1998, 09:45 AM
The Glock certainly has a simpler manual of arms, and I can see that as being a huge advantage in a high stress situation. Plus the Glock has a better out of the box reliability factor...

Though a person who trains deeply with a 1911 can certainly master its manual of arms, i.e. cocked and locked, and be very quick to the draw... And now days you can buy double stack 1911's and have the same currently legal limit of 10 rounds.

In my opinion, unless you train a lot with the 1911 and really get into using it and understanding it, then the Glock will probably be the better way to go.

ShadedDude
November 14, 1998, 06:16 PM
Reliability isnt bad in 1911's, just cheep ones. If you bought a Glock copy for $300 it would probly not be very reliable.
Or worse, if Jenson made one and it was $69.95 like there other pistols.
The 1911 is the most copied handgun I know of, so as far as reliability, or accuracy, you have to compare apples to apples. When you do that there isnt much of a problem.

Also as far as training, you need to train just as much with a Glock because when they issued them to the police down here all the officers were accidently discharging them beause they werent used to not having to disengae a safty.
No matter what gun you get you have to train with it.

I suggest you go look at both, shoot both, and see what you prefer. Your going to be stuck with it for a while...so get the one you like. Then learn to put the bullets where you want them. Then who cares what make it is...it does the job :)


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Mouse Assassins inc.

ShadedDude
November 14, 1998, 06:19 PM
Oh yeah...going back to the original questions.....HK is better for personal defence. Thats why I carry one. Because I liked it best.

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Mouse Assassins inc.

Ed Brunner
November 14, 1998, 08:12 PM
This has been an interesting thread because it asks a simple question,gets a lot of responses and finally it appears that it is a matter of personal preference after all.

I have fired countless thousands of rounds through almost everything but I have never had the desire to shoot a Glock.
No particular reason-just personal preference.

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Better days to be,

Ed

Dan
November 15, 1998, 11:33 AM
C'mon guys... stop fightin' it. Just get you a Glock, it's only a matter of time before you do.

In all seriousness, I've owned two 1911's (one Colt, one Springfield) and they both were unreliable. Even after trips to the gun smith-multiple times for both.

Now I used to not like the Glock until a friend convinced me to try his G-17. That led to a 22,23,21 and a 19.

I want to like the 1911, I really do. It's the first pistol I fired years ago and it's so classic. Sometimes I think about selling the Glocks I currently own (19 and 23) in order to help finance a proven reliable 1911. Like a Wilson's Combat, but after walking off the firing line I think nahhh.... I got the best, who needs more.

Just my opinion (and we all know what opinions are like). So don't take offense y'all.

ShadedDude
November 15, 1998, 01:50 PM
Which has thusly proven my point.
The best defence gun is the one you decide is best for you.

I will add that I carry a HK, and will gladly carry a Sig, but I dont carry a 1911.
and I wouldnt carry a Glock unless I have a grip job don on it.

My HK has jammed once, when I was working on a very light shooting target load. It didnt blow the slide back very far enough.

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Mouse Assassins inc.

Mikey
November 15, 1998, 07:54 PM
I'm new to this forum but I'll gladly throw my Chihuahua into the fight. I shoot IDPA and have used both in competition. I'm also an instructor and tell all my students if you're not willing to shoot the 1911 a LOT then don't bet your life on it, get a Glock. If, however you are willing to invest the time and money (tweaking the 1911) then there is NOTHING faster or more decisive in a gunfight!
Since I'm used to pulling a 1911 from the holster and going to work, that's what I carry on my person. I do not, however, like the idea of a cocked and locked (the only way to keep a loaded 1911)on my nightstand or in my truck console. Thats the domain of my G35 - the finest Glock ever made in my opinion! They do point differently but, if you use the sights, this is a minor problem.

As far as litigation goes...I'll use whatever it takes to make sure I make it to litigation. Better that than funeral arrangements.

Joe Paige
November 16, 1998, 11:04 AM
Mikey,

What's the difference between the 1911 and the Glock, on your night stand, etc.?

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Joe

Steve Koski
November 16, 1998, 02:21 PM
Only cheap 1911's are unreliable huh. At my last IDPA match I saw two Kimbers (not cheap at all) and two Colts (possibly cheap) malfunction. One of the Colt malfunctions cost the shooter 1st place.

I've only seen two 1911 type guns (out of 100's that I would ever trust my life with. The first is a Les Baer that cost my friend over $1400, and the second is a Para Ordinance P16 with some custom work. Every other 1911 type pistol that has been shot regularly at our local IDPA matches has burped, puked, self disasembled, etc.

Ed Brunner
November 16, 1998, 08:51 PM
The self-disassembly can be the result of resting your trigger finger on that handy little lump on the side of the frame.


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Better days to be,

Ed

Mikey
November 16, 1998, 09:32 PM
Joe Paige,

Just one of my "things" I guess. If I carry the 1911 all day and leave it cocked and locked all night, the springs never get a break. But I'm not sure that's really it - I think I just have a "thing" about it. Besides, my wife shoots the Glock better than any 1911 and I've got the Glock and I have to do something with it and...and...it holds more ammo...yeah that's it, more ammo!

Rob Pincus
November 16, 1998, 09:49 PM
Inherent in Mikey's last post in the crux of this debate. It is just a "thing."
Both weapons have advantages and disadvantages inherent to them. In a world without one, the other would suit us just fine. In a world with both, we have something to talk about.
God forbid you go over to the car enthusiast board and post "Which is better for stoplight drag races, a mustang or a camaro?" you'll get this same type of discussion thread, even though everyone knows that Mustangs are much better.
This thread exists as a tribute to both weapons. You'll never see a legitmate discussion like this arguing the merits of Bersa VS Llama.

You are also not likely to see very many legitimate cries of "Sigs and HKs Suck!!."

John Browning and Gaston Glock were both great innovators and will be remembered as members of the handgun elite by our offspring for generations to come. Let's just hope that they don't have to go to a gov't controlled museum to see an example of their work.

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-Essayons

[This message has been edited by Rob (edited 11-16-98).]

o1paw
November 16, 1998, 10:39 PM
First let me say that I'm a firm believer in the 45acp, and that my current CCW selection is a 1911. I chose the 1911 because I have yet to find a weapon that fits better in my hand, and one that I can shoot as accurately and quickly under pressure. I've trained enough to be very good with it. I really dont care too much (at all, really) for glocks. I dont like the grip angle on them (too severe) I dont like their blocky feel, and I dont like their triggers. Having said that, however, I have no animosity towards the weapon themselves or the people who shoot them. Glock does make a durable weapon at an affordable price, and I'm glad that alot of folks buy and shoot them, simply because it swells our ranks as shooters(we need all we can get). Is the glock the end-all of handguns? Hardly, at least not for me. To all you glock shooters out there all I can say is KEEP SHOOTING! We all have too much in common to bicker over such trivial things. I might also add that I'm not a 1911 "fanatic". Although my carry gun is a 1911, my house gun is a Sig P-220(dont like cocked-and-locked at 0-dark-30 in the middle of a bad dream, if you know what I mean. Everything has its place)
Take care and shoot straight,
01paw

Grayfox
November 29, 1998, 05:40 AM
Plastic sucks- nuff said

Ed Brunner
November 29, 1998, 08:48 AM
There is only one answer Shoot whichever one you are better with.For me that is the 1911. My hand and my brain recognize it and understand it.I really dont have to think about it-and that is of paramount importance if I have to jump up from my sleep and repel intruders or whatever.


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Better days to be,

Ed

longhair
November 29, 1998, 07:40 PM
I too like the 1911. I've spent alot of time practicing with it and am comfortable with it. Shot my brother-in-laws Glock, and it just seemed strange to me. i reckon though, if i spent as much time with it as the 1911
i might get used to it. guess i'll just stick with the 1911. but to each his own! :)

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fiat justitia

Michael Carlin
November 29, 1998, 10:34 PM
For most people Glock.

If you have to ask: Glock

If you are in court after the shooting is over: Glock

If you are very, very well trained, and practice regularly, maybe 1911.

I earned 28 of my Distinguished Pistol Shot Badge's required 30 points with a 1911 in .45 acp.

I carry a Glock.

my opinion!

my experience:

27 years in US Army, Bullseye, USPSA and International military competitions with both rifle and pistol.

Program of Instruction Development and Instructor: Fort McCoy Light Fighter Academy from stand up in 1987 to 1989

Conducted pistol qualification/remdial training for 6500 soldiers who deployed to Operation Desert Storm.

US Army Distinguished Pistol Shot 1995
(see my web page Distinguished? What's It Mean at http://www.1bigred.com/distinguished)

NONE of the above means jack ****

see question 2 above: GLOCK!


yours in marksmanship

michael

DocHolliday
December 4, 1998, 03:13 AM
I guess it depends who's shooting it.

Hal
December 4, 1998, 05:51 AM
Heh, My reply is redundant. Whatever works best for you is the best. Chances are the rest of us won't be there to advise you when you have to bet your life on somebody else's preference. If/when that happens, then whatever works for someone else will not mean squat if you can't use it. For myself, the answer is none of the above. For others it may be all of the above. I prefer a Smith and Wesson Model 19, but I feel comfortable with either my Browning Hi-Power or my Colt Commander, in that order. I've never shot a Glock so I can't say as yet if I would feel better with one or not.