View Full Version : Vang Comp vs. Patternmasters
December 30, 2000, 09:56 PM
Ok now I am looking into buying a new combat shotgun. My choise is narrowed down to two toughh choices. Vang Comp and Patternmasters. So far I have deducted the following pros and cons of each system.
Pros Vang Comp:
-Reduced muzzel flash and rise a great deal
-slightly reduced recoil
-Can shoot tight patterns...if lucky (6-12 inches average at 25 yards)
-Can shoot slugs with no modifications
-Will always shoot super tight patterns (spreads of 3-10 inches at 40 yards!!!!!!!!)
-Never heard of one owner complain...ever
Now this is a tough choice since I will mainly be using buckshot in my gun and I do want the tightest possible patterns. 3 inches at 40 yards is insane. And though Vang Comped barrels CAN shoot pretty tight patterns, they don't come anywhere near matching those of patternmaster's. Infact some people only get mediocer patterns with the Vang Comp system.
However, what attracts me to the Vang Comp system is not only the reduced muzzle flash, rise, and recoil that the porting produces, it is also the fact that I can shoot slugs with no barrel modifications. That means on the field I could instantly switch to slugs or back to buck at a moments need.
The only thing turning me off from Vang is that fact that their barrels do not pattern that tight. I e-mailed the guy at pattern masters about the vang website and he bassiclly wrote them off saying that he saw the spread that vang comp keeps o thier site of how their gun will pattern at 25 yards. He was not impressed by those patterns stating that he could put in any of his choke tubes and get similar patterns at 40 yards and beyond.
Anyone with any opinions on this matter? Or better yet anyone with personal expirience with these systems please post your thoughts and opinions. Thank you.
December 30, 2000, 10:18 PM
I have 870's with both the Vang and Patternmaster setups and Mossberg 590 with the Vang. I recently patterned all three at 15 and 10 yards. P'master was slightly better although I took just one shot and not the average of multiple shots. All patterned best with low recoil Federal or Winchester 00 and were roughly 5 or 6 inches at 15 yds, all fliers included. I do not consider the differences to be significant. The P'master is on a 20 inch Rem barrel with rifle sights and so is about 2 inches longer than the Vang. I wasn't paying any attention to muzzle rise or recoil and so couldn't comment on that. Word has it that
Vang patterns vary but the Mossberg and 870 were the same in my case.
December 30, 2000, 11:00 PM
Blain - what's your anticipated use? That answer will give the rest of us a good footing for recommendations..
December 30, 2000, 11:14 PM
Well my friend I want this to be the only shotgun I ever need to own. You see the thing about the shotgun I love so much is its versatility. I will be able to tack this same gun to the trap fields as I will hunting. Hell I can hunt anything from chimpmunks to elephants with this gun just by changing the load. I can also use this same gun for home defence. I know people say there is no "best" tacticle shotgun, but this is THE best shotgun one could own. If I go with Vang my gun will look very similar to the one here http://www.vangcomp.com/firebird_raffle.htm cept mine will be 800 dollars cheaper and have a side saddle.
December 31, 2000, 09:40 AM
You wanted opinions, right?....
First, we could take both of those excellent shotguns and find which one shot best with a particular buck load and then a particular slug. Then we could try a different buck load and find the other shotgun did better with that.Here, I suggest getting the shotgun and then finding the load(s) that work in THAT gun.
And, any shotgun that patterns buck inside a paper plate at a given distance is a great HD/ Tactical shotgun at THAT distance. No shotgun, regardless of laod, is a long range weapon.
I love shotguns for their versatility. Note the use of the plural. I have specialized slug, buck and tactical shooters and another for winged stuff, with the common thread being they're all 870s and 12 ga. Weights run from 7 and a little to 9 1/2lbs. No ONE shotgun is going to be excellent for all forms of shotgun use, tho some can come fairly close. I've never shot a slug through my bird 870(21 inch vent rib bbl with choke tubes) but am sure I could make a 50 yards slug shooter out of it as it sets with its limited mod and addon list. That's the bobbed bbl, lengthened forcing cone,and stock shimmed to fit a little better.Oh,yes, the toe of the recoil pad has been sanded down for comfort, too. And, with the plug pulled from the mag, 4 shots of whatever I load in it for HD will handle the job nicely.
But, the other 870s with peeps, extended mags, tweaked triggers, and so on may be even better in a HD scenario, but not much use at a dove shoot.
And, for what either one of those smithing masterpieces will cost you, you could get TWO used 870s, setup as you like, custom tubes, and decent triggers, and still have some money left over for ammo, range fees, and taking your spouse out to dinner.Just as reliable, just as effective.....
December 31, 2000, 10:13 AM
Thanks for your opinion, I find it valuable to hear others thoughts. Though I do find it doubtful that I could buy two used shotguns with all the features that I wanted. Not only would it be hard to find a used gun like that, but also the used gun would not be that cheap and most likely would not perform as well unless it was a Vang or patternmaster gun.
I know that all shotguns pattern differently, yet overall you will find that one choke simply tightens better in all guns then another. Meaning that one choke will tighten a previously wide spreading shotgun better then another one would
I don't see why I couldn't take the same gun I use for hunting/HD and use it for trap, Turkey, or any other type of varmit use. I'd say 90% of a shotguning involves having a tight choke, only 10% utilize a wide spread. And since neither wide spread sports nor hunting interests me I think I am ok with one shotgun for the other 90% of the jobs. Hell I could even use it for the other 10%; all you need is better accuracy.
The only problem I see using my mighty tactical shotgun for trap shooting and varmit hunting would be the extra weight. Yet I am a weight lifter, and thus I am not weight sensitive. All weights under 15 pounds feel the same to me.
If weight wasn't what you were referring to, what other factor was it that makes you think I wouldn't be able to use the same gun for all tasks effectively?
December 31, 2000, 01:10 PM
HD/Tactical shotguns are aimed, shotguns used for flying stuff are pointed. Most folks don't do all that well on clays or birds with a peep sight. That may or may not be important to you.
Weight is more of a factor when used for any sport where walking is done more than shooting, like upland hunting.
As for costs, there's plenty of good used 870s out there for less than $300. Let's break it down...
Used 870 for tactical work-$250.
Used 870 for clays,etc-$250.
Two trigger jobs(if needed)-$100
Two forcing cones lengthened-$100
One mag extension-$50
One peep sight with appropriate front sight-$75
These are worst case prices, plenty of 870s have adequate triggers as they come from the factory.
Custom choke tubes and so forth are expensive, but oft a forcing cone job will do more good than a tighter choke.
And for HD, choke is meaningless.My chokeless HD 870 will put a 10 yard pattern into 5 inches,and the longest shot possible here inside is less than 25 feet.
And, while this sounds like heresy, a stock 870 in trained hands is a close range weapon of awesome power and usage. The bells and whistles are nice, but not absolutely essential.
Using an issue 870, I fired a possible on my old agency qualifier,and could come close(95%) doing it today with the same weapon. And, it was not an easy course of fire.
Hope this helps, and Happy New year...
January 2, 2001, 11:02 AM
I have to agree with Dave McC here. I use SGs for multiple purposes. My Browning BPS for dove, quail, and the occasional skeet shoot. My 870 Super Express Mag for turkey, waterfowl and thicket deer hunting (with 3.5" 00buck). My Mossberg 500 for HD/Tactical courses. They may be specialized, but I've got less than $800 in all 3 of them. That may change when I add doo-dahs to the Mossberg, but it'll still be the Tactical course/HD gun.
Besides, what gun nut doesn't want to own more than just one?
January 3, 2001, 04:00 AM
Hmmmmm. Patternmaster says that they are not impressed with the patterns shot with a Vang Comp barrel. Maybe I'm stupid, but what would you expect them to say? They want to sell their tubes.
Most of the comments made in this thread are good. If you are looking for the ultimate defense shotgun, stay away from screw in chokes. If you want versatility, you can have screw in chokes or maybe an extra barrel with rifle sights.
I have had discussions with the custom shop at a well known shooting school and they complain about students demanding
super tight patterns with buckshot at 25 yards. The opinion of the instructors is that they serve little purpose except to puff up the egos of the shotgun owner. The idea is to switch to slugs if your shot is much past 30 yards.
Take a look at the letters on the Vang Comp web site. Many are from well known shooters and police agencies. Consider
that many of these guys depend on their shotguns as life saving devices. Are they stupid?
(obscene comment deleted, this is a family site) Gizmo
[Edited by Gizmo99 on 01-03-2001 at 07:12 AM]
January 3, 2001, 10:18 PM
Oops! Sorry, I got carried away.
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