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View Full Version : Is a M1 garand legal to own in NY?


blackamos
January 20, 2013, 05:22 PM
I have a friend in New York state and aked me if I knew if a M1 garand is legal under the new law? I don't know so I'm going to ask here. Anyone know?

Ridge_Runner_5
January 20, 2013, 05:29 PM
The new law says you can keep mags (or clips) up to 10 rounds, but can only load them to 7. You'll have to load the en-bloc to 7 rounds somehow.

Either buying one of those odd capacity clips like they make for competition shooting, or filling the 8th space with a dummy round.

But since the gun has a bayonet lug, does that mean it can be owned? And would you want to grind off the lug to own it?

Alabama Shooter
January 20, 2013, 06:41 PM
or filling the 8th space with a dummy round.

No can do. The law says no more than 7 "bullets". A dummy round has a bullet on it.

crankyoldlady
January 20, 2013, 07:40 PM
Brownells sells 5 round enblocs. There is also a technique for loading less than 8 rounds in a standard enbloc.

Ridge_Runner_5
January 20, 2013, 08:01 PM
No can do. The law says no more than 7 "bullets". A dummy round has a bullet on it.

I was thinking like A-Zoom snap caps. They're solid plastic.

Wyosmith
January 20, 2013, 08:02 PM
If the Constitution is the "SUPREME LAW of the LAND” how can such a question be asked?
The answer is simple.
Cowardice is rampant and the surrender is in effect without there even being a fight.

The soon censoring of this comment is still more proof of it's accuracy.

30Cal
January 20, 2013, 09:49 PM
The law says "contains more than 7 rounds of ammunition."

Also, it says you can load up to 10 if you're at an actual range or competition.

Palmetto-Pride
January 20, 2013, 10:20 PM
First it was 10 rounds, now 7, next it will be 4 rounds, and then 2, at what point do the people of this country and New York stand up and say enough is enough when it gets down to you can have any gun, but 0 ammo for them....:eek:

Alabama Shooter
January 20, 2013, 10:30 PM
Cowardice is rampant and the surrender is in effect without there even being a fight.

I imagine most people are cowards when it comes time to bend over and pick up the soap in the federal pen.

Ben Towe
January 20, 2013, 11:42 PM
If the Constitution is the "SUPREME LAW of the LAND” how can such a question be asked? The answer is simple. Cowardice is rampant and the surrender is in effect without there even being a fight.

The soon censoring of this comment is still more proof of it's accuracy.

The law is already in the process of being challenged. This is how our government works. In the meantime, what do you propose he do? Start a one man war against the state of New York with his M1? What would that accomplish? At least hold off on the armed resistance talk until all other avenues have been exhausted.

raimius
January 20, 2013, 11:53 PM
Soap box, ballot box, and Jury box, come before the more nasty measures.
Fortunately, our nation has kept it to the more civil methods most of the time. Here's praying it will continue to utilize civil means for solving differences for a LONG time to come.

Does NY's ban language include firearms with detachable mags, because the M1's is most certainly fixed.

chris in va
January 21, 2013, 03:46 AM
I was thinking.

It's not even an LEO response on this. Enforcement will come from the range owner that doesn't want his operating license taken away because someone shows up with an M1 and standard 8rd clip.

Enforcement of the 'law' will be from peer pressure.

Pathetic.

BfloBill
January 21, 2013, 01:21 PM
I have friends with the same problem and from what they have found out it should be grandfathered in as long as you don't load it to capacity. (Don't know about the bayonet lug) But what is really making them want to puke is the fact that there is no provision to pass their collection to their children. Once it's registered, when the original owner dies the State Police will show up, confiscate the gun, and destroy it. It is only grandfathered in for the original owner.

They are still looking into it though and if I find out different I will re-post.

Metal god
January 21, 2013, 01:45 PM
Didn't congress pass something in the 50s or 60s that states any American can own a M1 garand or us military surplus rifle through the CMP or something like that ? I'm not sure how it reads or is written but my buddy had a M1 garand shipped directly to his house last year . We are in CA and he did not need to go through a FFL or anything . Fed-ex just drooped it off .

Does anybody know how the law or what ever it is works and would it trump any state laws .

tahunua001
January 21, 2013, 01:58 PM
this one went downhill fast...
or as my good friend ron might say...
http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p563/tahunua001/32641994_zps606a9169.jpg

darkgael
January 21, 2013, 02:30 PM
The NYS SAFE act, which I have - complete - on my lap as I write this, refers to "ammunition" and "rounds" of ammunition, never bullets.
The M1 Garand is legal as far as I understand what I am reading. What are banned are "magazines that have the capacity to hold more than ten rounds of ammunition"
As to the weapon itself.....is an en bloc clip a magazine?
NYS has gone to a "one feature test" as a way to identify a firearm as an "assault weapon". If it has a detachable magazine that can hold more than ten rounds, and one other feature (a folding or telescopic stock, a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the gun, a thumbhole stock, a second handgrip or protruding grip that can be held by the nontrigger hand, a bayonet mount, a flash supressor...etc., a grenade launcher) it is an assault weapon. Shotguns and pistols very much the same in many details. No fixed mags of more than seven rounds on a semiauto SG.
Pete

RedBowTies88
January 21, 2013, 02:37 PM
Didn't congress pass something in the 50s or 60s that states any American can own a M1 garand or us military surplus rifle through the CMP or something like that ? I'm not sure how it reads or is written but my buddy had a M1 garand shipped directly to his house last year . We are in CA and he did not need to go through a FFL or anything . Fed-ex just drooped it off .

Does anybody know how the law or what ever it is works and would it trump any state laws .
__________________

If such a law exists is it surely not enforced.

In NJ you cannot have any guns shipped to you PERIOD. That INCLUDES Pre 1898 antiques, black power, and even BB guns. It also includes C&R holders... they still have to go through an 01ffl to have a c&r gun shipped here thus basically negating the usefulness of an 03c&r.

Also, as far as US milsurps being allowed well thats just not true. The M1 carbine is illegal in NJ in all its variations... its banned by name.

stu925
January 21, 2013, 10:06 PM
M1 Garand is still legal, first it's not a detachable magazine. Second there is a C&R clause in the AWB law. Anything 50 years or older is considered a curio or relic and doesn't fall under the ban. Go ahead and order your CMP, you'll be fine. By the way there's an exemption for the 7 round rule for shooting at an incorporated firing range or in competition recognized by the NRA. Check out http://www.governor.ny.gov/2013/gun-reforms-faq for the FAQ on the new law.

Stu

WildBill45
January 21, 2013, 10:12 PM
They picked the number 7, because it bans 95% of all handgun models in NY ... Period.

Oldwoodsloafer
January 22, 2013, 06:18 AM
Actually, the M1 rifle has a seven round magazine. Placing a full eight round clip in the rifle will not allow the bolt to close if there is a cartridge in the chamber. Loading a full clip only works while loading a completly empty rifle. As I read the new law, it only seems to address magazine capacity, not firearm capacity.

The question now becomes: how will the New York State Police regard the M1 clip?

Or, for that matter, what about the military stripper clips used to fill magazines for M16/M4's or M1 carbines?

This will hopefully be sorted out by April 15.

BfloBill
January 22, 2013, 07:56 AM
Metal god- The Federal Law cannot trump the State law if the State law is more restrictive. You are correct in the thinking that Federal law takes precedence over State, which takes precedence over, County, Town, Village. (Mix in whatever municipalities I did not mention) As you go down the food chain, municipalities CAN make the laws more restrictive, but they cannot make it more lenient. So, if you live in a lame state like me, you are at their mercy.

spacecoast
January 22, 2013, 08:27 AM
If the Constitution is the "SUPREME LAW of the LAND” how can such a question be asked?

It's a sad time when such a question has to be asked of such a rifle.

darkgael
January 22, 2013, 09:35 AM
M1 carbines

The M1 Carbine fails the "one feature" test. In addition to having detachable magazines of more than 10 rounds, it has a bayonet mount. But...it does fall under the 50 year old curio exemption.
About the "supreme law of the land"....don't hold your breath. The SC ruled (District of Columbia vs. Heller, 2008) that, while we have to right to keep and bear arms, that right is not unlimited.

They picked the number 7, because it bans 95% of all handgun models in NY ... Period.
Where did you get that figure from? It assumes that virtually all handguns in NYS are semiautos with hicap magazines. There are a lot of guns affected but 95%?? I don't think so. Source of your info about the 95% statistic?

Note regarding clips...as from the text of the law....s38 subdivision 23 of section 205:
" 'Large capacity ammunition feeding device' means a magazine, belt, drum, feed strip or similar device that (A) has a capacity of, or that can readily be restored or converted to accept, more than ten rounds of ammunition or (B)
contains more than seven rounds of ammunition....."
That being quoted, the Garand and its en bloc clip fall under Section (C)...as a curio or relic. The feeding device was manufactured fifty years prior to the date of the law and is only capable of being used in a firearm, rifle, or shotgun that was manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date. Replicas are not included.
There is more....but not now.

Pete

Oldwoodsloafer
January 22, 2013, 01:07 PM
Regarding the M1 Carbine, the earlier Carbines were built without a bayonet lug as part of the forward barrel band. Barrel bands without the lug and are sometimes referred to as type I or type II and are available from some suppliers.

MMV.30
January 22, 2013, 07:40 PM
From the SAFE ACT website: Any rifle that has the capacity to hold over seven rounds in a magazine or clip AND has one "military feature" such as bayonet lug,pistol grip or threaded muzzle is considered an "assault weapon". If you already own one it must be registered with the state police.

PoiDog
January 22, 2013, 07:59 PM
Would removing the bayonet lug from your Garand then make it okay?

Just curious, in case such stupidity comes to the People's Republic I live in.

Fishbed77
January 22, 2013, 08:33 PM
Any rifle that has the capacity to hold over seven rounds in a magazine or clip AND has one "military feature" such as bayonet lug,pistol grip or threaded muzzle is considered an "assault weapon".

Dang. What are all the gangbangers going to use for their drive-bys if they can't use their Garands?

MMV.30
January 22, 2013, 08:43 PM
@PoiDog I would have to assume yes. The list states the Ruger mini-14 and 10-22 as not "assault rifles" even though they have over 7 round mags.

stu925
January 22, 2013, 09:16 PM
According to the SAFE FAQ pages, yes removing the bayonet lug would negate the need to register. The way I read the Bill (S2230) there is an exemption for firearms that are 50 years old or older, however it will need to be registered. So if I read this right you can still order your Garand but it will need to be registered. I may have to call the hotline and double check this, I've been waiting to order my Garand until my taxes come back. If this is not the case I'll have to scrap that plan until either a) the law is repealed or b) I retire and move out of NY and who knows if they'll still be available. I'll be calling the hotline on Thursday and will report back when I have that info.

Stu

Metal god
January 23, 2013, 12:13 AM
Here is my 10/22 . Boy would I be in trouble :eek:

http://imageshack.us/a/img145/542/guns118.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img692/2079/guns120.jpg
.

darkgael
January 23, 2013, 04:17 AM
the SAFE FAQ pages
Do you have a link to that? The State police is supposed to have posted a list and other info on their website but every link that I have tried has ended with a "page not found" note at the SP web page.

stu925
January 23, 2013, 11:02 PM
http://www.governor.ny.gov/2013/gun-reforms-faq
There it is but I doubt it's going to help much in this instance

As for the SAFE FAQ, it specifically says a detachable magazine and one or mor features. Check it out here:
http://www.governor.ny.gov/assets/documents/RiflesBannedFeatures.pdf

I'm still going to call the hotline either tomorrow or Friday because I want to ask if reloading components are subject to the same restrictions that loaded ammo is.

Stu

Auto426
January 24, 2013, 03:14 AM
They picked the number 7, because it bans 95% of all handgun models in NY ... Period.


The law doesn't ban the guns themselves. It simply screws over law abiding gun owners by making their 10 round magazines illegal unless permanently modified to hold 7 rounds.

But, the idiots who wrote the law have no real knowledge of firearms, and naturally it's not so cut and dry to just put a 7 round limit into place. The Garand is one example, since it's en bloc holds 8 rounds but the first round is immediately stripped off into the chamber, leaving only 7 in the gun. Shotguns are another big question, since different size shells leave the gun with different maximum capacities.

lcpiper
January 25, 2013, 10:26 AM
They picked the number 7, because it bans 95% of all handgun models in NY ... Period.


You guys kill me. The dude makes an obviously rhetorical statement and you guys wana get all exact on him. You need to loosen the wraps a little, you're wound too tight.

stu925
January 25, 2013, 04:09 PM
Just got off the phone with the hotline (1-855-LAW-GUNS). Garands are not affected by the new law because they do not feed from a detachable magazine. He did say that you will have to load your Garand with 7 rounds (not sure how you would accomplish that). By the way as a side note.....reloaders are not affected by the new law, now if we can just get all the supply houses on board. Just thought I'd share the news.

Stu

Fishbed77
January 25, 2013, 05:01 PM
He did say that you will have to load your Garand with 7 rounds (not sure how you would accomplish that).

I have a feeling there are going to be a lot more Garand thumbs per capita in New York.

You guys should sue the state for reckless endangerment of your thumbs.