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View Full Version : Inherited Piece...no clue


tynimiller
January 20, 2013, 05:17 PM
So it's been sitting collecting dust but I really wanna get this piece up and running again. From the data on the gun itself it is an Armsport Inc. Model 5018 blackpowder pistol.

It doesn't say but appears to be a 44 cal, but again brand new to the blackpowder pistol scene.

Anything I need to know about these things?

I am taking it in to a gunsmith as soon as I find one with knowledge on BP pistols to have it cleaned and checked over. It doesn't cock without putting the trigger forward and the cylinder can just spin freely so I know it has some issues.

Say I get all that fixed, is this a model that can have a conversion cylinder put in to shoot low pressured cowboy loads with modern cartridges instead of manual loads?

Crappy cell phone pics but best I can do at the moment:
http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/t475/tynimiller86/Misc/0120132142_zps35dc63aa.jpg
http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/t475/tynimiller86/Misc/0120132142a_zpsc3073253.jpg
http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/t475/tynimiller86/Misc/0120132142b_zpsf8ee028e.jpg

Smokin'Joe
January 20, 2013, 06:07 PM
Help us help you. Provide a few photos.

DPris
January 20, 2013, 06:11 PM
If brass frame, don't use conversion cylinders.
Denis

10851Man
January 20, 2013, 06:14 PM
Armsport Inc. used to make a bunch of non-firing replica guns...FYI

BillM
January 20, 2013, 06:27 PM
Well--from, a quick google it appears that a Armsport 5018 is a 8"
steel frame copy of a Remington Army.

Hawg
January 20, 2013, 07:16 PM
Probably won't take a conversion cylinder.

tynimiller
January 20, 2013, 09:33 PM
I'll get some pics up tomorrow fellas. It is an octoganal barrel and not a brass frame. It is 8in if I measured and searched appropriately.

tynimiller
January 20, 2013, 09:58 PM
posted a couple pics I had on my phone. Only ones I got at the moment.

Jim Watson
January 20, 2013, 10:11 PM
The (square) AC says made in 1977.
The proof marks say it has been fired at least once.

The nipples are missing.

The failure to index and lock sound like the hand spring and the trigger/bolt spring are broken, bent out of line, or missing.


An Armisport reproduction was made by Armi Sport in italy, the company now doing business as Chiappa... with no current revolvers.
A search found a gunboard post in which an Armi Sport was said to accept a Uberti cylinder. I would want a return guarantee from R&D or Kirst before I paid for a conversion cylinder, those things are more expensive than the value of the revolver.

tynimiller
January 20, 2013, 10:51 PM
Thanks Jim, great info and all seems spot on from what I can tell. It is getting looked over on tuesday by some buddies of mine at a local gun shop...see what they say and whether I'll be taking it to a more knowledgeable hand or not after them. Thanks for the info and keep it coming guys if anything else!

Doc Hoy
January 21, 2013, 04:14 AM
....Just selling it and then start from scratch with a new revolver.

Sell it on eBay first the frame with the cylinder out of it and then sell the cylinder in a second listing. Put the nipplies back in the cylinder. Start the listing for the frame at 125.00. There is a Remington frame (Newer) which is now up to 161.00. List it at 12.00 Priority shipping and throw it is a flat rate box. Start the cylinder out at 40.00. Six dollars priority shipping. The n say that you will merge shipping on multiple auctions. I will bet that when the fools are done bidding you'll have 200.00 out of it. Bidders on eBay as a rule either do not follow black powder prices or they just don't care.

Right now a brand new Remington is selling for (I think it is back up to) 229.00 from Cabelas. You know it is new. You know you can get a converter for it.

Jim is right. You can easily have as much in a converted BP cap and ball revolver as you would pay for a cartridge revolver.

Willie Sutton
January 21, 2013, 09:57 AM
If there is no sentimental value, then what ^^^^ they all said. Sell it on eBay in 2 pieces and walk the money to someplace else and buy a nice new 1858 Remmie copy and a conversion cylinder.

If there is sentimental value, IE: It was your Grandfathers, then things get more interesting. A good smith can likely get it timed and locking right, nipples installed, and maybe reblue the cylinder a bit and you'll have a shooter for about what you would have paid for a new one...


Willie

.

tynimiller
January 21, 2013, 09:59 AM
Doc I'd be all about doing that if the history of the gun wasn't like it was. It belonged to my wife's grandfather and I inherited it after his passing. The nipples are long gone from what I can tell as they're in nothing I've gotten from his wife since his passing. I know it's gonna be expensive but gonna get this one shooting even if it's just a little at a time.

BirchOrr
January 21, 2013, 10:08 AM
It won't be THAT expensive to get it shooting again. Since it came from family, I'd get it going again!

Keep us posted!

Birch

tynimiller
January 21, 2013, 10:20 AM
Will do birch. If I were to call someone about a conversion cylinder what companies would you guys recommend that would know for sure yes or no on if it takes one?

spitpatch
January 21, 2013, 11:06 AM
Good advice from the guys. As you are going to keep it I would recomend going to (You Tube) click on vidieos type in 1858 rem. Many different ideas in the loading process. New nipples are not a problem.

mrbatchelor
January 21, 2013, 11:43 AM
...Anything I need to know about these things?

Yes. They're fairly simple to work on yourself.

i'am taking it in to a gunsmith as soon as I find one with knowledge on BP pistols to have it cleaned and checked over.

This will probably cost more than the gun is worth unless it has specific sentimental value to you. If it has sentimental value you have to figure out how much that's worth. I know I've spent way more than some things were "worth" just because they were family specific items.

There is a ton of information on YouTube about disassembly & reassembly. And the Pietta website has PDFs with parts breakdown. If its not a Pietta, but an Uberti, then substitute search terms.

Cabelas sells a Pietta rebuild kit, as do others I'm sure. But I don't know if it has a replacement hand spring in the kit.

VTI has individual parts.

If you want to do it yourself, and want examples you can pick up a new one in working order to learn on. Cabelas had them on sale last week. Not sure if its still going on.

deerslayer303
January 21, 2013, 12:04 PM
I'm not trying to tell you what to do, but if it was my family heirloom I would not put a conversion cylinder in it. I don't see the point in the whole conversion cylinder thing myself, The things cost more than the gun. If I'm gonna shoot 45LC I will buy a SAA. Track of the wolf can hook you up with nipples, and Dixie gun works may have the parts needed to get her going again. Just my .02

tynimiller
January 21, 2013, 12:08 PM
thanks guys...I'm also starting to debate whether I want to get a conversion kit....I may just grab another BP cylinder for quicker reloading (believe that's possible if research is right).

I don't trust myself enough to mess with it but perhaps I'll delve deeper into it...

brazosdave
January 23, 2013, 11:55 AM
I wouldn't concern myself about the quick reloading unless you aim to use it for CAS competition.

Rigmarol
January 23, 2013, 12:43 PM
Sentimental value is important, especially if you are keeping the wife happy about the whole thing.

If you are just a plinker or casual shooter, the conversions are way too expensive to get any real value for what you will spend.

The Remington design allows for a fairly quick reload with spare preloaded cylinders and look cool on the firing line.

If you are going to use the gun in Cowboy Action Shooting matches, a conversion is a godsend (In my humble opinion). But it is expensive.

I bought two Kirst Konverters for my Colt's Dragoons and love them and I claim they are worth every dollars I spent on them. But then, I shoot CAS.

The beauty is I can go back to the BP cylinders and load them up with cap n ball again. I tell the wife for the price of 5 guns I now have 4... ;)

tynimiller
January 25, 2013, 08:53 AM
Well guys took it into the gun shop I go to all the time (gonna be working their part time here soon even). My buddy there tore it apart and we started looking at what we needed to replace or simply get because it was missing. The gun itself was freaking sludged up bad everywhere save the barrel...you could tell my wife's Grandpa never cleaned anything except the barrel...the barrel was ridiculously nice!!

So I'm currently finding the best place online to buy all the stuff I need for it which is as follows:

-Hand and Spring
-Cylinder Stop
-Trigger and Stop Spring
-Nipples

Couple Questions for you guys though...we assumed the following link are the nipples I need correct? http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=4748

Also the barrel turns a little easier than I thought it should...does that mean it needs tightened further? Does it have a hard ending or no?

Doc Hoy
January 25, 2013, 09:07 AM
...Including DGW, VTI and some other smaller outfits, it is fifty - fifty that the parts will work straight from the pack on older pistols. And this is even when the vendor tells me the part is a direct replacement.

The two I mentioned plus Numrich, and for ASP originated revolvers, Virginia Sutler in Winchester VA might be a good place to start.

Deer Creek in Waldron, Indiana has some parts for Non-Pietta/Uberti revolvers but the original parts are all but worked out of the system (I think).

So people who are selling you parts for an ASP or ASM (IMO) are actually just selling you parts that were made by someone else and they are the closest fit to the OEM.

Since you need several parts, I echo the previous recommendation to go to Cabela's and buy their parts kit for an 1858 Remington clone. If you find that the parts won't all fit, you can sell the stuff you don't need on eBay and you will get your money back plus.

http://www.cabelas.com/product/740233.uts?WT.tsrc=CRR&WT.mc_id=crrdtfd

It is on sale now for 29.99 plus forty dollars shipping.

.

.


.

I am kidding about the shipping. ;o)

tynimiller
January 25, 2013, 10:29 AM
Thanks doc...I'll do that, like that it comes with a new hammer. I'll consider buying the nipples there too.

Noz
January 25, 2013, 10:36 AM
Well guys took it into the gun shop I go to all the time (gonna be working their part time here soon even). My buddy there tore it apart and we started looking at what we needed to replace or simply get because it was missing. The gun itself was freaking sludged up bad everywhere save the barrel...you could tell my wife's Grandpa never cleaned anything except the barrel...the barrel was ridiculously nice!!

So I'm currently finding the best place online to buy all the stuff I need for it which is as follows:

-Hand and Spring
-Cylinder Stop
-Trigger and Stop Spring
-Nipples

Couple Questions for you guys though...we assumed the following link are the nipples I need correct? http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product...oducts_id=4748

Also the barrel turns a little easier than I thought it should...does that mean it needs tightened further? Does it have a hard ending or no?

That would scare me. I'd put it back together with the parts that came with it and put it on the wall. Go ahead and spend the $200 bucks or so for a safe gun.

tynimiller
January 25, 2013, 10:40 AM
Noz...It's gonna be looked at very carefully and it seems fine, but if we can't figure it out (buddy has a BP Remmy as well we're gonna compare it to) I am going to order another octoganal barrel which is very easy to do. I don't want to be able to shoot this thing all the time, but would love to have it capable and shoot it some.

Doc Hoy
January 25, 2013, 12:35 PM
If the barrel is turned into the frame all the way and is still loose, it is unlikely that turning it an additional full rotation is possible.

This means that in order to tighten the barrel and get it snug, you would be turning it past the point where the sight lines up. But if you try to go all the way around, the threads on the barrel or frame will strip.

I would say that the barrel being loose in and of itself is not necessarily a reason to declare that the revolver is unshootable. As long as it is not too loose.

I have had loose barrels on Brass frame Remingtons but never on steel ones.

Before buying a new barrel I would inspect the existing barrel and frame and try to determine why it is loose. If you note damage on the threads of the frame or the barrel, try to decide how extensive it is. It may be that a new barrel won't fix the pistol.

Other guys on the forum have better experience with the formulations that are available to hold threaded fasteners in place. I am thinking "loctite" or some such concoction. I would have two concerns:

1. Will the loctite hold the barrel in place under the stress of shooting it?
2. Might loctite prevent you from ever getting the barrel out of the frame if you decided to do so in the future?

I agree that photos might be helpful here.