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j357
January 13, 2013, 12:10 AM
A buddy called me yesterday with interesting news. He has just purchased two AR-15s at MSRP. I know this is going to be a good story, as he is not a black rifle fan. He has purchased:
1. Bushmaster XM15 ES2, flat top w/ chrome lined 14.5 barrel, 1 in 9 twist, it has a pinned front iron sight/gas block and collapsible stock. Heavy barrel. 1 30 round mag. $1400 EDIT: it has a 2 inch FLASH suppressor pinned on the end.

and a

2. DPMS A15, flat top w/ chrome lined 16 in barrel, not heavy, 1 in 9 twist. no forward assist, (which i find interesting) and collapsible stock. 2 30 round mags. $1100 EDIT: it has a 1.5 inch FLASH suppressor pinned on the end.

Now is time for the thoughts and input. He wants to know which is the best one to keep and which one he should sell... I tell him to keep the Bushmaster, as it appears to be worth the extra $300 over the DPMS for a few bits of fit and finish, and might be a better gun to hold on to for the value. He hunts and is more likely to benefit from a longer range gun, but I figure the heavy barrel wins out with only 1.5 inches difference in length.

Now he wants to sell me the DPMS. I like the gun and have the money, but wonder if I should tell him to keep the DPMS for the longer barrel. I am more of a short range plinker and he finds it hard to believe either gun would shoot inside two inches at 100 yards.

What would you do to make sure your buddy ends up with the best of the two guns?

Quentin2
January 13, 2013, 12:59 AM
I wouldn't buy either one, both are way, way overpriced. Hopefully things will settle down in a while and that kind of money will buy you something really special as it did in early Dec.

As far as your buddy, I think he made two bad purchases but that doesn't mean you have to buy one.

chris in va
January 13, 2013, 01:06 AM
A 14.5" barrel requires federal paperwork and a tax stamp. Is he aware of that?

j357
January 13, 2013, 01:12 AM
Good comments Quentin2. I'm still debating the purchase. What I really want it a Scandium SW 1911 Commander model, so buying the DPMS would mean foregoing that for a few months. I already have a perfectly good AR, in the form of a 15 year old standard Oly Arms 1-7 A2. So the DPMS would not be filling a gap in my safe. Just drumming my fingers... loading up some .45 acp... thinking...

Nasty
January 13, 2013, 01:16 AM
This may be the first dumping thread...I think sooner or later, folks will be disappointed that they can't buy a new boat on the AR they bought during the panic.

j357
January 13, 2013, 01:17 AM
Sorry Chris in VA, should have added the suppressor length. Yes, I am, even though he is not.

LRChops
January 13, 2013, 01:42 AM
I just purchased two SIG M400 Flat Earth rifles at $900 each, one SIG 516 at $1200, and one SIG 716 (Flat Earth) at $1600.

The prices were so good, I could not resist. Down the road I may have to sell a couple but I am sure they will sell for much more than I paid!

Dr Big Bird PhD
January 13, 2013, 05:41 AM
A 14.5" barrel requires federal paperwork and a tax stamp. Is he aware of that?
Not with a pinned flash hider

Rob96
January 13, 2013, 07:26 AM
Neither as the prices are inflated. Whhile there are those that do not like DPMS, I have had great experience with them. Between my brother and myself we have had 6. I currently have the MK 12 model. The DPMS you describe sounds like either the Oracle or Sportical, whichever one is the slick side. It is a $600 rifle and unless the barrel is stamped chrome lined, it is not. I think he maybe confusing the term chrome moly which refers to the barrel steel.

BillyJack3
January 13, 2013, 08:24 AM
I wouldn't get either of them at that price. My buddy got a S&W Sport last week which IMO and many others is a better build than both of those. Got it for under $800. I'm seeing factory built Spike's going for $1400 - $1600 on another forum's equipment exchange. Those asking a premium for entry level ARs are seeing demand start to fade already. They panic is slowing I believe because most of the panic buyers have paid a premium and picked up whatever they could. Now, I do believe we will see another round of panic when legislation is introduced but who knows. Seems the move is now focused on ammo and mags.

Nathan
January 13, 2013, 09:18 AM
I predict that the panic buying will wear off soon and we will have a period where these sport AR's flood the market for $300-$500. I'm thinking good deals on those start around May/June.

I worry much more about the reloading components and ammo. They seem to be batch produced, so your bullet or primer of choice may not be available locally this year.

Ammo will be similar, but a bit sooner.

Mobuck
January 13, 2013, 09:42 AM
I'm selling non-name brand AR's daily for more than $1100.
There's nothing wrong with either of those carbines but I wouldn't choose the 14.5" simply due to lower performance. Whether the price goes back to prepanic level or not, AR's still have value and will never be a total loss.
Don't be confused by the logo snobs with the "quick draw" keyboards. Darned near any functional AR will serve the purposes of 90% of their owners.

Marquezj16
January 13, 2013, 09:51 AM
I would not buy either one. You already have a perfectly good AR.

LRChops - that's a nice score.

LRChops
January 13, 2013, 01:19 PM
I was fortunate to pick them up through the LEO SIg direct program. Apparently SIG pricing will jump up in 2014 by a few hundred for each rifle. They just won the contract for the California Highway Patrol.

I think many LEO's are buying them this year because in coming years they will be much more expensive. You may see a few for sale this year as guys will buy them and then re-sell for whatever reason. So if you can grab a SIG from a LEO who can't afford to keep it, go for it!

The SIG was tested in the most stringent battle conditions along with the COLT and HK. All the guns passed rigorous testing. SIG seems to be the most current choice for many LE agencies because they have outpriced COLT and are able to make thier rifles more available with better production times.

m&p45acp10+1
January 13, 2013, 01:24 PM
I thinke the OP is getting at the fact that the rifle he wishes to buy has a `14.5 inch barrel, and a 2 inch flash supressor/hider. Not a sound suppressor. If it were a sound supressor then an NFA stamp would be needed to buy the said rifle.

chris in va
January 13, 2013, 01:25 PM
Not with a pinned flash hider

He didn't mention a pinned flash hider. It has a pinned front sight.

The OP was updated to include a supressor.

m&p45acp10+1
January 13, 2013, 01:30 PM
Chris the last I heard they were legal as long as the flash hider long enough to make the total length of the barrel over 16 inches, and could not be removed without cutting the barrel. Meaning it had to be welded on.

That is if I remeber correctly. I do not own an AR and am not in the market for one unless I get one of those way to cheap to pass up deals. Though if I did that it would be sold soon after. (Nothing against AR rifles. I have shot many of them. They just did not leave me feeling like I just HAD to get me one for myself.)

MagnumWill
January 13, 2013, 01:37 PM
It does NOT need to be welded. Pinned on is just fine, since it's "permanent".

j357
January 13, 2013, 01:41 PM
I edited the original post. Flash suppressors/hiders, pinned. Sorry for the confusion.

j357
January 13, 2013, 01:53 PM
My choice was for him to keep the Bushmaster 14.5 heavy barrel for hunting, and for me to consider buying the DPMS 16 inch for plinking.

Let me rephrase the questions:

Given only a 1.5 inch difference in barrel length, which gun would you pick if you were wanting the better of the two for varmint hunting out to 150 yards and which would likely be the better long term piece to keep at the purchase prices?

BillyJack3
January 13, 2013, 05:51 PM
Neither is better at those prices for long term. The DPMS was easily found at Walmart a month ago for $587.

As far as which is better for varmint hunting, you're not going to notice a difference due to barrel length. My 14.5" is more accurate than my 16" at 100 yards using xm193. Haven't tried other ammo to compare.

Quentin2
January 13, 2013, 06:14 PM
My choice was for him to keep the Bushmaster 14.5 heavy barrel for hunting, and for me to consider buying the DPMS 16 inch for plinking.

Let me rephrase the questions:

Given only a 1.5 inch difference in barrel length, which gun would you pick if you were wanting the better of the two for varmint hunting out to 150 yards and which would likely be the better long term piece to keep at the purchase prices?

I'm not a fan of the specific models in the OP but speaking generally I'd always take the 16" barrel over 14.5" (unless you're in a state that doesn't allow a threaded barrel/screw on muzzle device). The accuracy difference 1.5" makes at 150 yards is negligible but is it worth the legal hassle of going under 16" just for 1.5" or even less? Or the expense of pinning/welding? To me it's not so I'd choose 16".

j357
January 13, 2013, 10:49 PM
Thanks for all the responses. I decided this afternoon that I was not buying the spare DPMS AR from my buddy. He is still happy and still plans to sell the DPMS. After all this talk I want to drag my AR out and shoot it some. I also plan to start looking for my SW 1911PD bobtail Sc model in the next few months.