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View Full Version : Quality of Bushmaster .223?


ffs1942
December 25, 2012, 01:03 AM
Dunham's is selling Bushmaster M4's fairly cheap. About $750 for one with just sight rails and no sights and about $1140 with irons IF they get any more.

This of course, is the weapon of the DC sniper and the latest school shooter.

It seems maybe the cheapest way to get an AR. How are they quality wise though?

Are there any junk AR;s that should be avoided?

Xfire68
December 25, 2012, 01:26 AM
They are for the most part good serviceable rifles but, the biggest thing right now is if you can find any AR at all for sale that is not 2x+ the cost it was just a month ago your doing well.

There are not any "Normal" online gun shops that have AR's in stock right now because I "Think" people are frantically buying them and some are reselling them for much much more then they are worth "if" a ban does not go into effect.

Shotgun693
December 25, 2012, 11:25 AM
I bought mine just as the 'frenzy' was starting. I like it so far. At 100 yards with the sights that came on it, I got the one with the detachable carry handle, I've shot a couple of 1" groups. I'm real happy with it. My Son said that mine is nearly like the M4 he was issued in Afghanistan, he bought one also.

PawPaw
December 25, 2012, 11:28 AM
I've got a Bushmaster that I've used as a patrol rifle for the past several years. It lives in a soft case and gets carried from cruiser to cruiser. Mine is the XM15E2S, almost a clone of the A2 I carried for many years in the Army.

I don't have any gripes about the little rifle. I use iron sights, run factory ammo through it, and have good magazines. It's accurate, dependable, and handy.

Mobuck
December 25, 2012, 12:30 PM
Just my opinion but here it is. ANY functional AR will satisfy the needs of 99.9% of the AR owners. There are very few factory built AR's that won't operate properly with decent quality ammo and magazines.
If you suffer from logo ego, spend whatever it takes to fill that need. If you just have the urge to be like everyone else and own an AR, they're mostly all the same shape and size and work the same way.
I've had or have AR's from most of the name brands. I also have several of my own assembling. For the most part if one of the so called premium factory built rifles was so much better than the ones I built myself, they'd have to shoot tiny groups in just the right place even if I just pointed in the general direction of the target and yanked the trigger.

jmfc606
December 25, 2012, 01:46 PM
If you can buy the flattop bushmaster for $750.00 Buy as many as he has in stock. Sell the rest on gunbroker or gunauction. If you start them at a penny most seem to be going from $1800 to $2500. After all is said and done you'll be able to keep one that cost you nothing and have a wad of $100s in your pocket. If you don't want to be bothered doing that partner up with an ffl dealer thats local to you chances are he'd jump at the chance because all Distributors are out of stock on every model and brand of AR-15's.

pdh
December 29, 2012, 09:52 PM
It's not the M4 style rifle but being a Bushmaster....I love it...It's my V match and here are some type groups I can get out of it with some varieties of loads....

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o312/hainespd/2012-12-25_124146_zpsefedb8bb.jpg

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o312/hainespd/GetAttachment-2.jpg

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o312/hainespd/DSC01796.jpg

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o312/hainespd/-1-1.jpg

TacticalDefense1911
December 29, 2012, 10:00 PM
They are a "hobbiest" quality gun. I wouldn't want to trust one for serious work. They are not mil-spec and don't strive to be. A much better gun can be had for a couple hundred dollars more. They are plenty good for plinking and fun and I'm sure they could serve as a defensive weapon but like I said there are better guns. Mission drives the gear.

I'd try to stay away from Olympic Arms, DPMS, Bushmaster and a couple other odd ball brands. A pretty good mil-spec carbine is Palmetto State Armory and they can be had for less than other top of the line guns like Colt, Daniel Defense, LMT and BCM.

CTS
December 29, 2012, 11:14 PM
I'd try to stay away from Olympic Arms, DPMS, Bushmaster and a couple other odd ball brands.
You have every right to your opinion but Bushmaster has been making the AR style rifle longer than any other manufacturer except for Colt. I would hardly call that an "oddball brand". They have been in business since 1976 and are still doing quite well selling what you call a hobbiest grade rifle. Strange that so many PD's would depend on a hobbiest grade weapon.

globemaster3
December 30, 2012, 12:28 AM
Nothing wrong with Olympic, DPMS, or Bushmaster for 95% of the shooting populace's needs.

And this probably needs to get moved to the Semiauto forum.

reynolds357
December 30, 2012, 11:05 PM
Bushmasters are no good.:D Get rid of yours and sell them to me. :D

ak2323
January 1, 2013, 10:25 AM
I wouldn't be so hard on Bushmaster or Rock River tbh.

Not all their stuff is mil-spec but mil-spec is hardly the holy grail - it's just the federal government's standard (sometimes). There are plenty of non 'mil-spec' rifles that are great and let's face it, the vast majority of AR owners probably don't run more than 2000 rounds through their rifles before they put them away or sell them.

Punisher_1
January 2, 2013, 10:11 AM
I have a Bushmaster from several years ago from the older assembly plant. I bought another one a few months ago, after the Batman Theater incident, and it was made at the new plant. The older Bushmaster has a better finish and fit compared to the new one but both shoot flawlessly. I thought $900 was a tad high a few months ago but here we are.

Al Norris
January 2, 2013, 01:06 PM
Moved to Rifles - Semi-auto.

HJ857
January 2, 2013, 06:39 PM
I used a M4 Patrolman's upper for a long time. Nice finish on it, but not as accurate as it probably could have been. On the plus side it was the most absolutely reliable AR I've ever used.

Justice06RR
January 2, 2013, 08:57 PM
Bushmaster makes good AR's. don't listen to some of the brand snobs.

Sure there are better manufacturers out there, but there are also worse ones. I would put Bushmaster in a mid-tier category IMO. It is very reliable and servicable in my experience.

My very first AR15 was a Bushmaster M4A3 Carbine. Excellent quality and reliability. My only regret was selling it a few years back when money was tight. I would buy another one in a heartbeat. For $750 locally, buy 2 !!

Theohazard
January 3, 2013, 10:46 AM
You have every right to your opinion but Bushmaster has been making the AR style rifle longer than any other manufacturer except for Colt. I would hardly call that an "oddball brand". They have been in business since 1976 and are still doing quite well selling what you call a hobbiest grade rifle. Strange that so many PD's would depend on a hobbiest grade weapon.
The new Bushmaster is not the same company as the one you're referring to. Bushmaster was bought out and their manufacturing facility was sold and most of their employees were laid off. One of the laid-off former heads of Bushmaster bought back his old facility, hired back most of his old employees, and started Windham Weaponry.

So the new Bushmaster is a new company making a different product, and Windham Weaponry is basically the same thing as the old Bushmaster.

CTS
January 3, 2013, 01:53 PM
Just because they changed locations and ownership doesn't have anything to do with the quality of their product. It is still bushmaster and they still make the same product. Are you saying that because they are now manufactured in the same plant as Remington that they are somehow not as good as they used to be? I know, I hear all the time about how freedom group has ruined everything but have seen no evidence of it. I have Bushmasters from both plants and they are both better quality than the Windham Weaponry Rifle that my brother in law just bought two weeks ago. I also have a Remington 700 that is one of the finest rifles I own. Right on par with my Winchester M70.
Companies change ownership all the time. How many times has Winchester changed ownership? How many different plants have produced the Weatherby Mark V? They are all still fine rifles regardless.

DasGuy
January 3, 2013, 02:06 PM
Bushmasters are a mid grade commercial model (commercial receiver extension, 1/9 barrel twist, barrel and BCG not milspec tested). I'd say $750 is a good price, particularly at this time.

geetarman
January 3, 2013, 02:08 PM
I have both Bushmaster and DPMS. Nothing wrong with them.

CTS
January 3, 2013, 02:21 PM
Bushmasters are a mid grade commercial model (commercial receiver extension, 1/9 barrel twist, barrel and BCG not milspec tested). I'd say $750 is a good price, particularly at this time.
I agree with some of what you said but, please tell me where you think you can buy any mid grade commercial model AR for $750 and I'll take a dozen.

TheGoldenState
January 3, 2013, 02:23 PM
I like my Bushmaster……alot.


For 750$, right now, buy 2! at the very least.:eek:

GlenF
January 3, 2013, 02:30 PM
Got Bushmaster, DPMS, S&W, and LMT. The 20" Bushmaster with a scope is my 100 yard fly killer. They are all good.

2tango2
January 3, 2013, 02:44 PM
Damn 750 is a great price right now that is for sure

It is a heck of a lot less than any price I have seen

Theohazard
January 3, 2013, 10:24 PM
Just because they changed locations and ownership doesn't have anything to do with the quality of their product. It is still bushmaster and they still make the same product. Are you saying that because they are now manufactured in the same plant as Remington that they are somehow not as good as they used to be?
I have a hard time believing they're making things exactly the same as they were before all those changes. If you take a company, change its ownership, fire all its workers, and move to a new plant with new ownership and new workers it's hard to imagine you'll end up with the exact same quality product. I never said they aren't as good as the old Bushmaster, but many people who have owned both say the quality has gone down since the change.

CTS
January 3, 2013, 11:21 PM
I never said they aren't as good as the old Bushmaster, but many people who have owned both say the quality has gone down since the change.
Do you own a Bushmaster? Have you ever owned a Bushmaster?
I know you are right about what many people say but, many people repeat what they read on the internet as if it is the gospel when most of them have never even held a Bushmaster. I have two in my possession right now. One was made in Windham and one was made in Ilion and the only difference I can see in the two is the name of the city stamped on the side of the receiver. My Brother in law bought a Windham Weaponry rifle last week and it is a very nice looking rifle. When you field strip it to clean it, you can just barely force the bolt back into the carrier because the gas rings fit so tight and the firing pin retaining pin is almost impossible to install unless you have it positioned just perfectly. The chamber won't close on rounds that feed flawlessly in my Bushmaster and then when you try and extract the round you have to really pull hard on the charging handle to get it to come out. I was first issued an M16 in 1976 and have used many M16s and AR15s of just about every configuration and have never had those kind of problems before.

I don't think it is fair to say that Bushmaster fired all their employees. I think they just didn't want to transfer in order to keep their jobs. This is one of those things that happen in business quite often. I have been through that myself. I had every opportunity to transfer if i wanted to keep my job I chose not too.

Theohazard
January 4, 2013, 12:20 AM
Do you own a Bushmaster? Have you ever owned a Bushmaster?
I know you are right about what many people say but, many people repeat what they read on the internet as if it is the gospel when most of them have never even held a Bushmaster.
I never once said the quality has gone down. I only said that the new Bushmaster is completely different than the old Bushmaster.

That said, I work in one of the highest-volume gun shops in this region of the country. (Heck, we're one of the only shops in this part of the country who even have any AR-15s left, and we have a whole lot of them.) I've talked to many people who feel the quality has gone down since the overhaul happened. Do I take their word as gospel? No, I don't; but I do listen to advice from good sources and take it into consideration.

All I've been saying this entire time is that when a company changes everything completely like Bushmaster did, it's really not the same company as it was before. Whether that new company makes a product that is better or worse is up to the actual owners to decide.

Quentin2
January 4, 2013, 01:52 AM
Hey ffs1942, this $750 Bushmaster - would it happen to be the Carbon-15 model? I'd pass on that. I kinda doubt you can find many $750 ARs right now with milspec 7075-T6 alloy receivers so I'm betting it's actually a C-15.

And honestly unless you get a screaming deal I'd pass on Bushmaster itself as you can get a higher quality PSA for about the same price. In normal times their KISS model was around $750.

New2ARs
March 24, 2013, 04:21 AM
I just recently purchased the Bushmaster Carbon 15 AR and I must say so far I really like this rifle. I will be testing it out Monday at the range and am looking forward to it.

I know from looking at the threads it appears not to many people like these rifles and was just wondering with the rifles being produced today (carbon 15's) has anyone had any issues with them (the versions being produced currently)?

I am adding the ATG quad rails, the MOPAR CTR stock, a Hogue grip and a different scope to it. With these rails it looks like the barrel will have plenty of air circulation around it not that I am going to go to the gravel pit and just blow through the rounds or anything but I think they will help keeping the barrel cool.

Please let me know if there are any recommendations on what to keep a watch out for since I am new to the AR platform.

Thanks and have a great day.

globemaster3
March 24, 2013, 08:32 AM
There's nothing he's adding that will "get in the way" to the point of "jacking up the cost of repairs"... In addition, if that's how he wants it configured, all of his parts can be just as easily transferred to his next rifle if the situation/performance calls for it.

Skadoosh
March 24, 2013, 09:23 AM
I have no issues with my Bushmaster. I added a few accessories like a Wilson TTU-MIL trigger and staked the gas key though.

iraiam
March 24, 2013, 12:09 PM
I own an older bushmaster, I like it. I looked at a new one a few months ago, I had some issues with it.

1- the rear sight would not flip back to the smaller peep size.

2- the rear take down pin would not come out by hand, the LGS employee couldn't get it open.

3- there was too much wiggle between the upper and lower receiver for my taste.

For a rifle with a $1K price tag, I was not impressed, I bought a S&W instead.

cgaengineer
March 24, 2013, 12:25 PM
I love my older Bushmaster...at one time they were the cats meow, not sure about now. They used to be close to Colt as far as fit and finish.

madcratebuilder
March 26, 2013, 08:48 AM
I've got a Bushmaster that I've used as a patrol rifle for the past several years. It lives in a soft case and gets carried from cruiser to cruiser. Mine is the XM15E2S, almost a clone of the A2 I carried for many years in the Army.

I don't have any gripes about the little rifle. I use iron sights, run factory ammo through it, and have good magazines. It's accurate, dependable, and handy.

I think Dennis nailed it, accurate and dependable. I have a old A1 BM and a M4gery BM when they first came out. Both run great, I use M193 mostly, made some changes on both but still using the original BCG's and barrels.

Think MEAL
Mags
Extractor
Ammo
Lube
Take care of these four items and your AR should run like a Swiss watch.

This BM is almost a antique.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/AR15/BMA101.jpg

This BM well be due for a new BCG in another few thousand rounds.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/AR15/BMM402.jpg