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View Full Version : Identification and information needed for gun found inside older then 1850's House.


Heeveltje
November 27, 2012, 10:58 AM
Hello,

I'm from the netherlands, where guns aren't very usual and no-one seems to know anything about them, so I'm trying my luck here!

When we started to remodel our house my dad found a gun (pistol?) inside one of the bricks of our walls. All we know is that our house was built after 1850, but because it was build from salvaged bricks and material from older houses, we still can't place any date on it. (though i think it's probably not thát old?)


Anyways, any light you can shed on our mysterious finding would be much appreciated since we know literally nothing!

I have added photo's so hopefully there's someone knowledgeable out there!

Winchester_73
November 27, 2012, 12:04 PM
Looks like a copy of a stevens pocket pistol. Caliber is probably 22 short, 22 long, 25 rimfire, 30 rimfire or possible 32 rimfire. IMO it would date to the 1870s to 1880s. Judging by its contruction, it was not actually made by Stevens. Its possibly of European origin.

SDC
November 27, 2012, 12:23 PM
You might get more information if you can post a picture of the breechface (this'll show it it's rimfire or centrefire; probably rimfire)and of any marks that are on it anywhere; if it's European, it will certainly have proof marks showing the country (and possibly date) of origin. The "cannon"-style barrel is normally only seen on much older guns.

RJay
November 27, 2012, 12:26 PM
While it has similarities to a Stevens pocket pistol , I believe it is a " Parlor Pistol" designed to fire a very low power cartridge in either 4 or 5MM. Called Floberts ( whether they are true Floberts or not ). The cartridge they used had no powder, they relied on the power of the primer alone to propel a small round ball. They were used indoors for pinking and even in saloons for bar bets. If you google " Parlor guns " you will find a number of photos to compare it too. Made either in Belgium or Germany ( because of your location I would bet Belgium ). The time period was in the 1860's on up to the early 1900's. Could be wrong, been wrong before:)

Winchester_73
November 28, 2012, 07:45 AM
While it has similarities to a Stevens pocket pistol , I believe it is a " Parlor Pistol" designed to fire a very low power cartridge in either 4 or 5MM. Called Floberts

I think this is less likely than what I hypothesized. Parlor pistols are normally longer, and the mechanism of a top break WITH an automatic extractor (the extractor pushes the shell out upon opening of this gun) is unlikely to be found on a parlor pistol, or any pistol designed for indoor shooting. Parlor pistols normally have a swivel breech, or a type of modified rolling block, with a hammer, or some other type of primitive system, rather than a top break mechanism. The top break with auto extractor was current technology in those days in a single shot self contained cartridge pistol. Between its size, the fact that its top break, and the auto extractor, it only makes sense to be a pocket pistol with a SD purpose in mind.

Looking at the size of the pistol grip, and the length of the barrel, I don't think shooting it indoors with powderless flobert rounds would be enjoyable unless you were trying to shoot a door or a large wall.

PetahW
November 28, 2012, 11:09 AM
I agree, it's no Flobert or parlour pistol -

It appears to be a Stevens Tip-up Pistol clone, reminiscent of the Model 41 - but not made by Stevens, since the location of the barrel release latch is much higher on the frame than Stevens, and the barrel appears to sit higher/shallower in the frame, too.

Under good/strong light, and some magnification, perhaps some maker's mark might be found on the barrel top/sides, or undersides (after dismounting the bbl).


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Rifleman1776
November 28, 2012, 11:37 AM
I agree with the Steven's comparison.
But, I don't know the dates of Stevens. Could a Steven's tip-up be a copy of this older pistol?
Interesting find. Keep and cherish.

James K
November 28, 2012, 01:54 PM
"Parlor pistols" used a number of actions (including auxiliary barrels for guns like the Luger), so I don't think the action precludes it being in that category. Still, I don't think it is; with the short barrel, large caliber (judging from the extractor) and rudimentary sights, I think it is a pocket pistol from around 1865-1875.

If Heeveltje could provide some pictures of the barrel or some measurements, we might at least determine the caliber.

Jim

Mike Irwin
November 29, 2012, 09:38 AM
It SCREAMS European with the weird muzzle configuration, the uncomfortable looking as all hell grip style, the trigger that extends well below the trigger boss, and the enormous slab hammer.

As for whether or not it is a parlor pistol based on its attributes...

There's a distinct possibility that yes, it was made/sold as parlor pistol. Tip down, short barrel parlor pistols with automatic extractors are not unknown, but they are uncommon.

It's also possible that it's simply being lumped into that category.

PetahW
November 30, 2012, 06:24 PM
I agree with the Steven's comparison.
But, I don't know the dates of Stevens. Could a Steven's tip-up be a copy of this older pistol?



I doubt it - Joshua Stevens patented his first tip-up action design in 1864, and it became the basis for his early pistols, rifles & shotguns (all single-shots).


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