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View Full Version : Help for my sister!!!!


OldSoul
November 12, 2012, 01:15 AM
My sister recently went through a nasty divorce and told me she would like a shotgun for home protection for her and her 3 kids. She does not have a lot of money and is trying to get on her feet so I thought I would buy her one. Question is I have heard of people using single shots for home defense do they really have any merit or is it just marketing? Money is an issue in this purchase but I do want her to feel safe again. Thanks

Sport45
November 12, 2012, 05:05 AM
Look for a used Remington or Mossberg pump. Single shots will work fine for one shot, but if that one shot misses she'll be out of luck.

Pfletch83
November 12, 2012, 06:28 AM
Would be to let her check out the Mossberg line of pump actions,and get her to handle each one in a different gauge to see what is best for her.

Personally I would recommend that she try the Mossberg 500E Cruiser (a 13.5 inch stock can be added for $50.00+ a bit of pocket change) I say this because I don't know how much time she has spent shooting and heavy recoil could be a problem.

In any gauge though I will say that for home defense #4 buck is tough to beat for pellet size and payload.

Regolith
November 12, 2012, 07:22 AM
Personally I would recommend that she try the Mossberg 500E Cruiser (a 13.5 inch stock can be added for $50.00+ a bit of pocket change) I say this because I don't know how much time she has spent shooting and heavy recoil could be a problem.

A pistol-grip only shotgun is a bad idea for a newbie, and while a new stock may be had for relatively cheap, it's an added expense that isn't necessary.

Better to get a 20 gauge with a youth stock.

UtahHunting
November 12, 2012, 07:58 AM
+1 on the youth model 20g. I see them for 150 or so quite often here used. Easy to handle and will get the job done.

Pfletch83
November 12, 2012, 08:28 AM
I did say that she should try all three to see what fits her best.

SDC
November 12, 2012, 09:07 AM
+1 on the Mossberg 20 gauge, but throw in a flat of shells and take her to the range for a day to get her comfortable with it; the best gun in the world won't do her any good if she's not able to use it well under stress, and that's where practice comes in.

scottd913
November 12, 2012, 11:36 AM
i agree with the mossberg... maverick 88's are cheap enough and easy to use.
i also agree with the take her to a range with a flat of shells.
but one may argue with the order of that, when in fact that may be back wards!!! ya might want to take her to the range first and let her shoot before the purchase of a gun she wont be comfortable with. the big thing to remember is to not stop there if you really want her to be protected and feel secure long term you should take her to the range more than just to fit her with a gun...have her use to using it and have it in her mind that it is a go to protection weapon.
either way good luck.

EdInk
November 12, 2012, 12:23 PM
I like Remington 870s but for the money a Maverick 88 (go on-sale for under $250 at box stores) is tough to beat.

MLeake
November 12, 2012, 12:31 PM
Does she know how to shoot? Is she familiar with firearms safety?

If she doesn't know what kind of shotgun to buy, I suspect the answer is "no." If that is the case, you will help her more by buying her a lesson or two, so she can get some necessary skills. Odds are, the lesson(s) would help her figure out what she wants, too.

BigJimP
November 12, 2012, 01:52 PM
+1 on taking her to the range....letting her shoot a number of different shotguns - in different gagues.

or buying her a firearms lesson....

Rifleman1952
November 14, 2012, 06:52 AM
When I thought about answering this question, the women, in my own life (wife, relatives & friends) came to mind. For the women I know, the choice would have to be a 20 gauge over the 12. They just wouldn't practice with the 12 gauge. The 20 gauge would be ideal for most of the women I know. I agree with those who stress the importance of good training and practice for your sister. If she is serious and committed, it won't take long for her to become proficient. In 20 gauge, I like the Mossberg Tactical 6. You should also be able to find a used side by side for a reasonable price. Stoeger makes an economy level side by side and over/under in 20 gauge that would likely get the job done for her needs. I would avoid the single shot, although one is definitely better than none.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/60530/Mossberg+Tactical+6+Shot+20+Ga.18+12%22+Barrel+Cylinder+Bore

youngunz4life
November 14, 2012, 07:11 AM
mossberg 500 shotgun (pump)

or

double-barreled shotgun (non-pump plus can do two consecutive shots)

...if she isn't into firearms or shotguns, she should have no problem with the double-barreled shotgun(opinions differ but I wouldn't personally recommend the single shot)...

not sure if you are firearm savvy, but even non-enthusiasts have knowledge of what I speak: 'break-top' where you can put a shell in each side before closing it to fully load...when you shoot only one will shoot at a time. in an emergency you will still have a loaded shotgun after firing it...most will agree two shots is almost always enough...

*you can get decent deals, so if the price is too high you are doing something wrong w/regards to a shotgun

jackpine
November 14, 2012, 08:06 PM
the problem with single shots is that most of them are exposed hammer models. Under stress would you trust yourself to de cock a shotguns hammer if you had to draw down a bead but didn't pull the trigger?? Not this cat!

You could get a hammerless single like the EAA imports from russia but you would probably end up spending as much as you would on a cheap pump gun.

OldSoul
November 15, 2012, 11:39 PM
She has no experience with firearms but I am leaning her towards a 20 gauge pump not worried so much about stock length because on a cheap gun a hacksaw can do wonders:) I am trying to talk her into going with me to a gumshow next weekend so she can get a feel of a few guns.

TheKlawMan
November 16, 2012, 12:13 AM
She has no experience with firearms but I am leaning her towards a 20 gauge pump not worried so much about stock length because on a cheap gun a hacksaw can do wonders I am trying to talk her into going with me to a gumshow next weekend so she can get a feel of a few guns.

Perhaps not as easy as you think. Cutting a synthetic stock with a hacksaw can be a problem. Perhaps easier with a Mossberg than a Remington 870. A wood stock is easier to shorten. You may then have the cost of a new recoil pad.

I don't know if it is such a good idea to get her a pump of any kind. Modern auto loaders are pretty reliable and you always have to worry about short shucking a pump under pressure.

If recoil is going to be a problem, she is probably better off with a gas operated semi. Some 20 gauge pumps are built on a lighter frame than the 12 gauge and the reduced weight results in less reduction in felt recoil than you might expect. Of course it may easier to find a pump shotgun with a HD barrel (short like 18 to 20 inches).


While the pump tends to be less expensive, it's a waste of money if your sis isn't going to practice with it and feel comfortagle using it for defense.

How tall is she?

OldSoul
November 16, 2012, 12:32 AM
She is only about 5'3" but she is fairly stocky. Good thing is she is asking lots of questions so I am trying to keep her interested.

Edward429451
November 16, 2012, 03:22 AM
A Remington 870 Express Youth in 20 Ga is a dandy little SG and quite comfortable to shoot.

rebs
November 16, 2012, 06:16 AM
a Nasty divorce, domestic situation etc ?
The introduction of a gun at this time might not be a good idea for someone with nu gun experience ? How is her relationship with her x-husband ? Does he have visitation rights and come to pick up the kids ? Is he the one she needs protection from ?
I would strongly suggest a course in fire arms and self defense before giving her a gun. A gun in the hands of an inexperienced person could lead to a bad situation especially with children in the home. Could lead to the wrong person being shot, the gun could be taken from her and used to shoot her.
My suggestion would be to have her get training before giving her a gun.

youngunz4life
November 16, 2012, 12:39 PM
get the shotgun Home Defense/Protection of Life only(my opinion). Please keep us posted. Good luck...

Comanche
November 16, 2012, 06:07 PM
My Wife is very petite and has no problem emptying the magazine tube from my Mossberg 500 persuader with rear pistol grip.

She won't even touch my saiga 12..... She can barely lift it up to ready.

OkieCruffler
November 16, 2012, 07:48 PM
Sounds like she needs lots and lots and lots of trigger time. A shotgun in hands of someone with no training is just as likely to be taken away and used against them.

youngunz4life
November 17, 2012, 06:32 PM
okiecruffler, nobody an argue that trigger time and practice helps a lot but lets be realistic: not everyone does this. This doesn't make you any less than 100% correct...I am just saying Granny is gonna do what she wants to do period(Granny as an example here:D). if he gets her a doublebarreled shotgun and she learns to use it, they come up with a plan, then she should be able to use this to protect her home. I hate to see her decide not to get it or just buy a handgun for the drawer. The shotgun can be a lifesaver for her. That is why i offered that type of shotgun besides a pump as a possibility...believe it or not people do forget stuff(because they don't train enough), and i think she can be comfortable with the shotgun. I also feel she is better protected with it then a handgun(my opinion in this situation), but what she leaves the gunstore with is her choice.

OkieCruffler
November 17, 2012, 06:49 PM
That's where we differ. I firmly believe that if someone is not going to get training and learn to use a weapon then buying a gun is the worst thing they could do. No gun is a magic wand. and it's just too easy to take one away from someone with no training and especially if they are slow to use it. I say find time to take her out and get her interested in shooting then find her a gun that she will actually enjoy using. A .22 pistol that she is willing to use will beat the shotgun she's afraid of.

barstoolguru
November 17, 2012, 07:03 PM
in jan shot guns prices are going to drop in pawn shops (hunting season is over) and you can get a cheep one there. I got a mosburg one time for 50 bucks

musicmatty
November 17, 2012, 07:34 PM
My wife wanted a gun for home defense and ..something that would make her feel safe ;) I found a good O'l trustworthy (used) Winchester 12gauge model 120 Ranger at a local gun shop. Lots and lots of very nice used Winchesters turning up in gun shops for a very good price in this bad economy.

Like any weapon, one has to spend enough time with it to bond. She can now rack it with her eye's closed and blow your balls off in the dark :) The sound of a 12 gauge being racked, should be unsettling for most any folk poking around where they shouldn't be :mad:

TurkeyOak
November 17, 2012, 07:52 PM
+1 for Mossberg Maverick 88. I got mine in January 2012 for $169 on sale.
+1 for 20 gauge & practice
-1 for pistol grip only. You need a real stock and need to aim, not just point and pray.

youngunz4life
November 17, 2012, 08:41 PM
That's where we differ. I firmly believe that if someone is not going to get training and learn to use a weapon then buying a gun is the worst thing they could do. No gun is a magic wand. and it's just too easy to take one away from someone with no training and especially if they are slow to use it. I say find time to take her out and get her interested in shooting then find her a gun that she will actually enjoy using. A .22 pistol that she is willing to use will beat the shotgun she's afraid of.

She can learn to use it and fire it in the backyard a few times for starters. She'll have a better chance if the SHTF at 3am with the shotgun rather than the handgun.If she is a responsible woman, I have no problem with her having a firearm in the home for HomeDefense even if she isn't too good with firearms. Lack of training becomes more important if she had one for CCW. That being said, please don't misinterpret what I said as training isn't important. I am NOT recommending she buy a firearm and not know anything about it andor how to use it. She definitely needs to use a it a couple times at least for starters and to know how to operate it safely(before, during, and after use). She should be able to do this if she is serious about purchasing a shotgun for home defense/self defense. Also, my opinions in this thread are directed specifically for this case only(as every situation can be unique).

vytoland
November 17, 2012, 09:56 PM
She has no experience with firearms:eek:

she had better get some practice with the firearm she finally purchases.

what makes you thinl she can handle a shotgun? planning and research needs to go before you just buy a gun!

youngunz4life
November 18, 2012, 12:18 AM
planning and research needs to go before you just buy a gun!

who said they weren't doing this

Rifleman1952
November 18, 2012, 08:30 AM
Lot's of good suggestions. I tend to agree with those who are emphasizing training and practice. It is a huge mistake for any person to buy a firearm and stick it away in a drawer, never to be touched until the unthinkable happens. I suspect this happens way too often. The mindset of these folks, regarding a firearm in the home, is akin to having a fire extinguisher in the home. They have one but rarely pay any attention to it. Most everyone at TFL would agree that simply is not an appropriate or safe way of looking at firearms.

Handling a firearm safely, should be second nature, and that only comes with practice and training. Now, this doesn't mean she needs Navy Seal or Army Ranger training. She doesn't have to become the next Kim Rhode. She needs to be proficient and safe in handling and using any firearm.

I don't know anything about your sister's ex-husband, but I am familiar with many cases of domestic violence. I do know that protection orders from a judge, barring a determined and violent ex spouse from the premises, are meaningless. Hopefully, your sister's ex will move on.

springfield 720
November 18, 2012, 02:19 PM
my 10 yr. old can handle a 20 g. all day.. the 13 yr. old does the A-5 all day of shooting.. its not a matter of if she can handle a shotgun, its practicing and holding it right so she doesn't dislocate a shoulder... Especially if you decide to go with a hole opener like a slug.. :D

Pfletch83
November 18, 2012, 02:40 PM
I still stand by having her try all three gauges of Mossberg 500.

Because keep in mind SHE is the one that will be using it,not you,me,or john soandso down the way.

TheKlawMan
November 18, 2012, 08:46 PM
I don't know anything about your sister's ex-husband, but I am familiar with many cases of domestic violence. I do know that protection orders from a judge, barring a determined and violent ex spouse from the premises, are meaningless. Hopefully, your sister's ex will move on.

Perhaps, but out here if the little woman calls the police and shows them a protection order it is more likely that hubby gets arrested. The problem with getting one is just the fact that you seek an order can push someone over the edge. This is getting away from the OP's issue.

MLeake
November 18, 2012, 09:48 PM
I think what he means is that protection orders only matter to people who care about such things as protection orders.

Domestic abusers and aggravated stalkers don't seem to be terribly concerned about pieces of paper.

Given a choice between a piece of paper, or a gun, I'll take the gun. I'll add to that good locks and lighting, and a couple large dogs. Collectively, that's much better protection and deterrent than any writ would be.

Rifleman1952
November 19, 2012, 01:21 AM
The average police response time in the area where I live is about 20 minutes. It varies from place to place, but I would rather be prepared to defend my home and loved ones, than have to wait for the cavalry to arrive. A lot of bad things can happen in just one minute. If the OP has legitimate concerns about the safety of his sister, my advice would be she take whatever measures necessary to protect her children and herself. IMHO, learning to properly and safely handle a 20 gauge shotgun would be an important part of her safety plan.

youngunz4life
November 19, 2012, 02:31 AM
any updates, OldSoul? Are you all still getting around to going to the store or have you been there yet?

OldSoul
November 20, 2012, 08:09 AM
I have not taken her to the store yet but I probably will sometime this week. In the mean time I will probably have her come to my house in the sticks and teach her as much gun safety as I can and send her home with my Charles daly 20 until she can find one of her own. Yes I realize that police should be notified of domestic issues and they have we also have a cousin and uncle who are deputies in our county but that becomes a mute point in a crisis. Her husband at one time was a very good man and I have the upmost respect for what he has done for our country but after two violent tours to Iraq he has never been the same. He can't keep a job or his temperament so much so that the VA psych will no longer see him. This is the situation she is in.

TheKlawMan
November 23, 2012, 02:04 AM
You don't understand the purpose of a protective order. It isn't going to keep a severely agitated person away in many cases, but it may keep someone from coming around and then losing control.

Of course, if it doesn't do the job you need to be able to protect yourself while waiting for the mounties. It is no guarantee that they don't blow the order off, but they are more likely to take the problem into custody than they are without a protective order. They are also more likely to respond and to respond sooner if 911 knows you have a protective order.

You may also be on better legal grounds if you have a protective order against whom you shoot.

TheKlawMan
November 23, 2012, 02:12 AM
Reading what you just posted I strongly suggest that your sister talk with someone who counsels abused women. Hopefully someone suggested by the local police or sherrif's department but someone. Perhaps your uncle or cousin can make some calls, perhaps to her PD if she is outside of your county, and get her talking with someone.

Rifleman1952
November 23, 2012, 05:43 AM
TheKlawMan

You don't understand the purpose of a protective order. It isn't going to keep a severely agitated person away in many cases, but it may keep someone from coming around and then losing control.

I'm not saying the OP's sister should not get a protection order. As long as she understands the order will not necessarily protect her from anything. The problem with protection orders, in most jurisdictions I'm aware of, is that the consequences for violating such an order are little more than a slap on the wrist. The defendant is usually released from custody the next day. There definitely should be stiffer consequences for violating those orders. I agree that the OP's sister needs a comprehensive security plan that involves the court, law enforcement, family and most importantly, her own instincts. Becoming proficient with a firearm, would be just one very important part of her overall security plan.

OldSoul
November 23, 2012, 08:23 AM
She has decided not to get a shotgun no matter my kicking and screaming but is opting for a taser. Thank you for all the great replies.

TheKlawMan
November 24, 2012, 02:32 AM
I'm not saying the OP's sister should not get a protection order. As long as she understands the order will not necessarily protect her from anything. The problem with protection orders, in most jurisdictions I'm aware of, is that the consequences for violating such an order are little more than a slap on the wrist. The defendant is usually released from custody the next day. There definitely should be stiffer consequences for violating those orders. I agree that the OP's sister needs a comprehensive security plan that involves the court, law enforcement, family and most importantly, her own instincts. Becoming proficient with a firearm, would be just one very important part of her overall security plan.

You are right on all counts, but what does that say abot judges and the laws? This is beyond the scope of the shotgun forum but judges that fail to use their powers to protect women, and in some cases men, from abuse should be shown the door.

As for the OP's sister's decision not to get a shotgun, she is probably better off. The one thing she does not want to do is take it out and then not be able to pull the trigger. I don't know about tasers but how about heavy duty pepper spray and a self defense course - something she may be steered into by a women's abuse counseloor.