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View Full Version : Identical "Military Trainers"


johnwilliamson062
November 7, 2012, 08:08 PM
I am on the brink of getting my C&R FFL again and will probably concentrate on military trainers(shooters in 22lr).

I was wanting to compile a list of relatively available trainers for future reference.


Under $1000 and regularly seen at the usual C&R sites or gun broker.

Commercial production is fine as long as it is identical to a military rifle.

CharlieDeltaJuliet
November 7, 2012, 08:23 PM
I bought a CMMG Quebec-A because it is the same as the military M4. It actually has a 14.5" exposed barrel (1.6" recessed inside the upper to bypass the NFA stamp). I love my .22 trainers. To me they are the most fun for me to plink with. Good luck with your search, let me know what you find...

johnwilliamson062
November 8, 2012, 07:40 PM
Well another modern one on my short list is the Citadel M1 (http://www.legacysports.com/products/cit_m1.html)
PPS50

I was thinking more like this German 22lr Mauser training rifle (http://www.gunauction.com/search/displayitem.cfm?ItemNum=8377020).
or this Enfield 22lr training rifle (http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/enfield-no-2-mk-iv-22lr-r13798/).
Full size copies in 22lr.

What else is out there? Searched for Arisaka and nothing came up for instance. Anyone else have a collection of these? Would love to put together a collection. There seem to be a lot of bolt action rifles set up with AK/SKS sights and imitation triggers, but that doesn't really interest me as much. They are cheap so I will probably end up with a few anyways.

johnwilliamson062
November 12, 2012, 11:32 PM
Norinco had to make a 22lr mosin at somepoint.

I thought there would be a lot more of these out there than I am finding.

johnwilliamson062
December 26, 2012, 11:45 PM
http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/russian-toz-7-22-lr-r13789/

Not much of a copy, but no manual safety. Just my style! JK, hard to believe on a military trainer.

johnwilliamson062
December 26, 2012, 11:49 PM
http://johno.myiglou.com/springfield.htm

Springfield M2 trainer for 1903A3

https://www.libertytreecollectors.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=1623
MAS 45 Trainer

https://www.libertytreecollectors.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=2284&idcategory=86
PP Trainer

https://www.libertytreecollectors.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=2300&idcategory=86
Argentine HAFDASA

http://www.milsurps.com/archive/index.php/t-8445.html
22lr mausers

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=310776822
Garand

tahunua001
December 27, 2012, 01:57 AM
liberty tree made me sad on cristmas, I was browsing, looking at all the pretty old rifles that santa should deliver late and not one of the ones I liked enough to click on was in stock...

talking about teasing.

PzGren
December 28, 2012, 01:52 PM
There is a subforum dedicated to rimfire trainers on RFC.

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=125

You are missing many. German post-war trainers alone are Anschütz 54, Erma, and Walther.

Germany also had .22 conversions for the Luger, H&K G3, and Walther P1 and were really big on rimfire trainers.

johnwilliamson062
December 30, 2012, 12:57 AM
Is the Anschutz 54 a copy of a center-fire?
Avoiding things like the heap of bolt action 22s with AK sights installed and similar. Moss 44. Should look and if possible work like a center-fire counterpart.

stickhauler
December 30, 2012, 02:25 AM
But they never made a trainer rifle for the M-1 Carbine, at least not one that the government contracted for. You can get the real thing for not much more than the list price of the Citadel model.

PzGren
December 30, 2012, 09:08 AM
The Anschütz 54 is a military trainer designed following the tradition of German rimfire training rifles from the Third Reich. The DSM was used during that period and good specimens are beyond your posted budget, the Anschütz is borderline. It is built on the famous 54 match action, inspired by the Mauser 98 action but reduced. It finds application in .22 Magnum, .22 Hornet, and .222 Remington.

There are a few trainers currently available like the Romanian M69 and a polist trainer. I want to again recommend to you to get over on RFC and get some info on your subject of interest.

A good Anschütz starts around $800 - 1,000.

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z159/Andyd173/Passat013.jpg

BlueTrain
December 30, 2012, 04:51 PM
I believe actual .22 rimfire military training rifles are pretty scarce. I never saw one in three years in the army. However, I did use a US Army issue .22 bolt action rifle when I was in college in 1964/65. I think it may have been referred to as an M2 Springfield. It was a high quality dedicated target rifle. I don't think there's anything like it today. Fat chance of finding one. The army also used Remington, Stevens, and two Winchester models in addition to the M2. These others are just regular commercial .22 target rifles and none of them very closely approximate any army rifle of that day.

One of the first rifles I bought was another .22 rifle just about the same time I was allowed to use that .22 army rifle. It was a SMLE made in 1914. It was identical to the regular rifle except for the chambering and the fact that the magazine was empty, making it a single shot. But it could shoot, once you got used to the sights, even though it was a little beat up. Again, I suspect it would be hard to find.

I remember one local gun store about 25 years ago had a quantity of Mossberg .22 rifles. I don't know anything about them but they were full-stocked and may have been used by the military. They were bolt action repeaters and had an unusual feature of a plastic finger groove strip set into the grip. I believe that was a distinctive Mossberg feature. The catalog I'm looking at of commercial versions, none of which have full stocks, says it has a clip magazine. Others have a tubular magazine. Anyhow, I can't say if the army ever used them or not. They aren't in any of my manuals. I don't shop for guns anymore, so I can't say how rare they might be but they're probably less expensive than any of the other guns above.

I think the British SA-80 was made in a single shot .22 rimfire version for cadet use but probably in very small numbers.

johnwilliamson062
December 30, 2012, 05:36 PM
But they never made a trainer rifle for the M-1 Carbine, at least not one that the government contracted for.

Yeah, but I am not interested in one as a collector so much as having a copy I can shoot. I will be using these for the same reason the government originally contracted them. I can get 30 carbine at most gun stores, but I don't stock it regularly and it isn't super cheap to shoot. With a citadel carbine I can take it to the range and shoot a few hundred rounds without batting an eye. The C&R guns are great fun to look at, but they don't get used as much as I would like. I also don't like giving them to other people to shoot all that much.

I did check out RFC. I have had it bookmarked for a long time. The thing is almost all the posts there seem to be about buying the cheapest trainer available and sporterizing it into the worlds greatest squirrel gun. Look at the last few months and almost all are just about M9 trainers.