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Captains1911
November 5, 2012, 06:58 PM
I just purchased a new SUV, and discovered an excellent hiding spot for my Remington 870. I live in Virginia but very close to MD and WV that I travel to often. I also travel into DC occasionally. My question pertains to the legality of transporting the shotgun out of state. I plan to keep it in a gun sock, unloaded but with shells in the side saddle, and additional shells in a seperate unlocked compartment. My understanding is that this should be no problem in VA and WV, but I'm unsure about MD and DC. I also visit NYS a few times a year, sometimes with brief stops in NYC. Any guidance on the legality of all this would be appreciated.

TheKlawMan
November 5, 2012, 07:34 PM
You know to be careful when relying on the internet for legal advice, which this is not.

New Your City: One site informs me that "shotguns may be kept in the city for only 24hours while in transit and these must be unloaded and stored in a locked container or automobile trunk for the period.

District of Columbia: The same site provides that "District of Columbia laws prohibits the transportation of firearms through the city unless the travel is to or from lawful recreational firearm-related activity"

The general rule it references is set out on that site, but you will note that a firearm must be unloaded, cased and locked in the automobile trunk. Once you reach your destination municipal laws may come into play.

Please do NOT rely on the above or the web site, which is located at http://www.cjrpc.com/interstate_1.htm . It is quite a few years out of date and I note it is wrong in at least one respect. If it is wrong about National Parks it may be incorrect as to other laws. One thing that is clear to me is that, if the laws are still the same as referenced above, transporting your shotgun in the manner described would at least be in violation of laws of the District of Columbia, New York City, and the so called general rule. Re that generl rule, I believe it incorrect as to the transportation of an unloaded shotgun in a motor vehicle (long guns need not be in a locked trunk). Of course I may be wrong about that one.

You didn't mention, but a lot of frequent business travelers stay in hotels and motels. Some take their security firearms into the room with them. That raises all sorts of different issues depending on the jurisdiction.

See if you can get a pamphlet, possibly on line, for each jurisdiction you intend to visit. The info you seek may be available from the NRA or an online source such as Calguns.net (of course for the particular local).

BigJimP
November 5, 2012, 07:55 PM
I understand MD and DC have all kinds of very specific rules...and I believe what you're suggesting could cause you a lot of problems.

I suggest you contact some law enforcement agencies to find out what the laws are.

Corrections Cop
November 5, 2012, 10:30 PM
Question? Why do you need to drive around with a shotgun in your car, and also if you need to ask these questions, that should be the first indaction that you probably should re think your plan.

shortwave
November 5, 2012, 11:56 PM
I suggest you contact some law enforcement agencies to find out what the laws are.


^^^This^^^

Laws pertaining to transporting firearms can/do vary widely from state to state.

Would also suggest calling each state you plan on traveling in.

TheKlawMan
November 6, 2012, 02:15 AM
As is apparent from his post, the OP is aware of the fact that he not only has to concern himself with different states and the District, but cities such as NYC.

No offense to the corrections and other LEO's, but the laws of the various jurisdections are so confusing that I would be careful just asking any officer. Even the folks at our AG firearm division have trouble correctly explaining Cali firearm law. Still, if at all possible check them out on the equivalent of state attorney general web pages and don't forget the feds.

Lastly, "HIDING SPOT". That smells like a concealed weapon. Here in Cal, where an unloaded shotgun can be in the car, I don't believe I can toss a blanket over it or otherwise hide it.

Pistolgripshotty
November 6, 2012, 07:21 AM
I would just check with local police to see what's legal. It'll be all bad to get a fine or worst a (seizure):mad:

Captains1911
November 6, 2012, 07:43 AM
Lastly, "HIDING SPOT". That smells like a concealed weapon. Here in Cal, where an unloaded shotgun can be in the car, I don't believe I can toss a blanket over it or otherwise hide it.

I've never heard of a "concealed" long gun. I'd like to learn more about this idea.

twhidd
November 6, 2012, 08:00 AM
With all due respect to law enforcement, it has been my experience that they are not always the right people to ask. I suggest a district attorney's office.

Captains1911
November 6, 2012, 09:28 AM
Question? Why do you need to drive around with a shotgun in your car, and also if you need to ask these questions, that should be the first indaction that you probably should re think your plan.


I'm not sure how to respond to this... Do u have a CCW? I think perhaps you are in the wrong place.

Captains1911
November 6, 2012, 09:30 AM
MD is my biggest concern as that's the state I travel to most frequently. I don't plan to have the gun loaded with shells in the tube, but as mentioned potentially with shells in the side saddle (which tecnically is considered unloaded). Some research leads me to believe that in MD the ammo must be separate from the gun and one the two must be locked. So if the ammo is in a locked container in the rear cargo area, and the gun is unlocked in a sock under the rear passenger seats, does this comply?

Noreaster
November 6, 2012, 10:48 AM
I'm LEO and I can assure you that many police officers are not well informed on firearms laws. In Massachusetts the laws are confusing to say the least. I once observed a kid convicted of leaving a firearm unattended in a motor vehicle, problem is the law he was charged with pertains to handguns only, not the shotgun he left in his car. If the officer is wrong you may eventually win but that is after the arrest, confiscation, car towed, bail and other legal fees. Most States allow you to travel through with a properly stored firearm if your going hunting, competition or some other event involving firearms in another jurisdiction. There should be full faith and credit between all States in regards to firearms licenses/permits, similar to driver's licenses.

Corrections Cop
November 6, 2012, 11:02 AM
I have a CPL here in MI, and at least in my state you have to have your long gun unloaded and cased in a vehical. I just cant see the reason to have a shot gun in a "hiding spot" in your SUV thats all. I'm sure that if you were to get pulled over and you told the cop you had a shotgun in a "hiding spot" in your car they might have some more questions for you.

Dont get me wrong I am all for the 2nd amendment and the constitution, I just dont under stand why someone would want to carry a hidden shot gun or 1,000 rounds of ammo in thier vehicle. I dont go around looking for a fire fight, but it seems like some people plan on it.

Captains1911
November 6, 2012, 11:06 AM
I dont go around looking for a fire fight, but it seems like some people plan on it.

I CCW all day every day. I don't go around looking for a fight either, quite the opposite. But unfortunately the possibility always exists that a fight may find me. Is that not why we carry?

TheKlawMan
November 6, 2012, 06:04 PM
I've never heard of a "concealed" long gun. I'd like to learn more about this idea.

Yes, grasshopper, many conealed weapon laws are restricted to handguns or firearms less than a certain length, but not all. Do the research. I will give you a clue. North Dakota.

TheKlawMan
November 6, 2012, 06:08 PM
Just to make it clear, I have nothing but respect for LEOs and I only suggest that because of the complexity of gun laws, and the volume of laws that they deal with, that most are not the best source of info on them. Even state attorneys have trouble understanding some of the gun laws.

jaguarxk120
November 6, 2012, 06:54 PM
Klawman you are so very right, here in Michigan any firearm rifle/shotgun falls under pistol laws if the overall length is less than 30 inches.

TheKlawMan
November 6, 2012, 08:59 PM
Dang it Jaguar, I am like that monkey with a typewriter or the clock that gets the time correct twice a day. I know I have a 50/50 chance of predicting the next POTUS.

egor20
November 7, 2012, 12:16 AM
For Maryland.
CARRYING AND TRANSPORTATION IN VEHICLES

Rifles and shotguns being transported in motor vehicles must be unloaded.

It is a crime to wear or carry openly any rifle or shotgun with the intent or purpose of unlawfully injuring any person.

For Washington D.C.
In Washington, D.C., all firearms must be registered with the police, by the terms of the Firearms Control Regulations Act of 1975.

I live in NOVA and don't carry any weapons (even a folding knife) when I go to MD or D.C.

shortwave
November 7, 2012, 12:16 AM
Klawman,

I'm often told "even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and again". :D

Sport45
November 7, 2012, 12:30 AM
I plan to keep it in a gun sock, unloaded but with shells in the side saddle, and additional shells in a seperate unlocked compartment.

Why, in case an impromptu hunting trip presents itself? By the time you got that into action I imagine the fight would be over. Just use the car to get away from trouble. Don't load the gun up and come back.

TheKlawMan
November 7, 2012, 02:57 AM
Klawman,

I'm often told "even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and again".

I like it.:)

RsqVet
November 7, 2012, 05:30 AM
Capt --

Keep in mind in reading firearms laws, reports etc and etc. i have seen mentions of regions (don't remember where) where a shotgun with shells in a side saddle would be considered "loaded" because the ammo and gun are next to each other / can be made ready to fire quickly. Might have been NJ, or NYS or both?

On the east cost where you are I would think you are in a veritable minefield of firearms laws and pitfalls. Drive through NJ to get to NYS? I lived there, there are more ways to jack someone with a firearms felony there than I care to mention. One memorable case I read involved a person who had moved from texas with a M1 carbine, and another gun or two. Said person got in minor legal troubles and this gun and a few other tid bits that would not raise even an eyebrow in another state were translated into 7 felony charges.

If you do the research I think you are going to find this is a whole lot of trouble for a just how much benefit? You want to know that you are 100% in the clear everywhere you go due to the nature of the places you travel and their laws. Face it, you could be the victim of fate... say you get rear ended or your truck gets stolen and because of inattention to detail you are in violation somehow, now you may well be hit with a weapons charge. It's the nature of places like NJ, NYC, MD, DC. I have lived there and now live in the west, I am sure even a minor issue like this, if you are otherwise square would not amount to much in most of the western states, back east a whole other story.

Please also keep in mind that while I full support the right to carry, keep arms in one's vehicle etc, many, many persons will question why one feels the need to keep a long arm in their vehicle even if it's an accepted right to do so and legal to do so. The simple reason for this is we CCW, or carry arms shall we say for self DEFENSE.

Defense implies an emergent threat situation that must be met immediately to save your life or facilitate escape from the situation. It is difficult to construct terribly reality based situations (i.e. NOT end of the world, blah blah blah) where getting a shotgun out of your vehicle, loading it, and deploying it somehow meets with an emergent need for defense of your life as a civilian. In these sorts of situations, you having the time or get it out, load it and deploy it makes it seem not like defense at all, more like offense which, frankly is not the primary duty or reason why civilians are carrying arms.

Yes I know in most states one may use deadly force to protect the life of another or stop certain felonies. I get that, but again, first off, how likely is it ever that you are going to find yourself in some such situation? A situation where you know a felony is happening, or life is in danger, and you have time to get your gun, load it, and do something? What kind of thing are you thinking of getting involved in? An active shooter? Robbery?

Do you see how this sort of discussion makes it look a little like you are either looking for a gun fight or looking to overstep a bit? Even more so given the legal aspects and such given where you are and where you travel.

Sport45
November 7, 2012, 07:00 AM
RsqVet said it much better than I did. :)

Corrections Cop
November 7, 2012, 09:10 AM
RsqVet said it much better than I did.

X 2

Thats what I meant in my post also. Well said RsqVet!
I carry as much as I can, and I do it to protect myself and my family. I am not going around playing cop, or looking for a gun fight ect. Just because you have a ccw does not mean that you are a cop. I carry a spare mag with both my ccw guns in hopes that if the need asrises I hopefully have enought ammo to disingauge from the situation. I dont want to stay and fight it out. I'm not rambo.

JimDandy
November 7, 2012, 02:45 PM
Man am I glad I don't live on the East Coast ,Illinois or California. Put me in the middle of a big ass state with preemption, and shall issue laws.

According to Handgunlaw.us you wouldn't even meet Title 18 requirements... locked in a compartment with neither the gun nor the ammunition readily available from the passenger compartment. I didn't read the WV page, but I wouldn't take the thing to MD or DC. Wow. I wouldn't take a Red Rider BB gun to MD...

Gary Slider
November 7, 2012, 05:16 PM
In some states you would be fine in others you would end up in jail. I would have to go look at each state to tell you anything for any given state. NY and NJ are out for sure.

But some states state there can not be any ammo attached to the firearm. Is a Side Saddle considered Attached? I don't know.

In some states transporting a long gun in your trunk and stopping can get you arrested.

In states you can have an unloaded shot gun in your trunk I would carry the ammo in a belt made to hold shotgun shells and not attach them to the shotgun unless I was positive about those states laws.

Heck in Ohio having an Unloaded clip fed handgun, rifle or handgun locked in a box and a loaded mag for the firearm loaded in another locked box is considered having a loaded firearm in your vehicle. Go figure.

Captains1911
November 7, 2012, 06:24 PM
In some states you would be fine in others you would end up in jail. I would have to go look at each state to tell you anything for any given state. NY and NJ are out for sure.

I'm fairly certain its legal in most of NYS as long as its unloaded.

Gary Slider
November 7, 2012, 06:48 PM
If you are out of state you better have a hunting shotgun and a hunting license or showing you are on your way to a skeet range to shoot or you are in big trouble. Have a defensive shotgun and no hunting license you are in really big trouble.

Now an instate person might be able to get away with a hunting shotgun in NY but NY does not allow you to put firearms in your vehicle just to keep them there. You have to be transporting it for a specific reason like going hunting, shooting or to get it repaired etc.

Captains1911
November 7, 2012, 07:03 PM
I didn't really think describing my situation and the specifics as to why I wish to carry the shotgun were relevant to my thread, but for those questioning my intent, i will. I spend a good amount of time away from home, often for days at a time, sleeping at my girlfriends house most nights. There are 4 children living in her house, and currently no practical means of safely securing a long gun there permanently. There are times when I'm there that I would feel more comfortable with a long gun, just in case. The recent hurricane Sandy is a good example. Carrying the shotgun in my car makes it possible to have with me anytime I'm staying away from home, not for immediate self defense scenarios while I'm driving around as some people have suggested, thats what my CCW is for. I'd be awfully upset if i was staying somewhere away from home and found myself in a situation where one of my long guns could be beneficial, only for them to all be sitting in my safe at home. Furthermore, when I travel to visit family and friends in NYS, I also have to leave my CCW behind, so having the 870 (which is NYS legal) allows me to go without being completely unarmed.

I've decided to leave the side saddle empty, and store the ammo in a locked case in the rear cargo area, although its legal in my homestate of VA to transport it loaded. My main concern is traveling into MD which I do more often than I prefer, and where I must leave my CCW behind. I could just take the shotgun out too, only it requires more effort that I'm not sure is necessary.

Gary Slider
November 7, 2012, 07:14 PM
Here is a FAQ From the MD State Police:

Firearms

How can I legally transport firearms within / through Maryland?

Answer: They must be unloaded, in a carrying case, holster with a flap and the ammunition should be separate. It would be best to keep the unloaded weapon in the trunk where you do not have access to it. There are further regulations but essentially you can only transport a handgun between residence, to and from a repair shop, a shooting sporting event, between a residence and place of business if substantially owned and operated by the person. For more information please contact our Licensing Division.

They state Handguns in this but it is under the Rifle/Shotgun FAQ'sNew York, Mass and NJ are more stringent on their laws/rules on transporting. You just can't keep it in your vehicle.

Captains1911
November 7, 2012, 07:18 PM
When visiting NY the gun will be in a locked case on the way there, and removed from the vehicle once I reach my destination. Sounds like I should be ok in MD.

TheKlawMan
November 7, 2012, 09:05 PM
I didn't really think describing my situation and the specifics as to why I wish to carry the shotgun were relevant to my thread, but for those questioning my intent, I will.

It has noting to do with questioning your intent! As you can see from numerous posts, the purpose for which the firearm is transferred is relevant in some situration (transported to a range for example, whereas in some jurisdictions you can't just transport it to have it with you for self protection).

I noticed before that you asked the same question over on shot gun world and then got bent out of shape at the folk over there when they gave you similar answers. If you don't wish to here what people think, perhaps you shouldn't ask.

Captains1911
November 7, 2012, 09:13 PM
It absolutely does have to do with questioning intent when you're accused of "looking for a fight" when posting a question regarding legality of firearm transportation.

Corrections Cop
November 7, 2012, 11:41 PM
Furthermore, when I travel to visit family and friends in NYS, I also have to leave my CCW behind, so having the 870 (which is NYS legal) allows me to go without being completely unarmed.


This sentence right here. Your going to carry a 870 when you cant carry your ccw. If you have time to go to your truck grab and then load your 870. You have enought time to exit the situation, and thier would be no need for the 870, that is what a jury is going to look at if you happen to shoot someone. There are some legality issues with this. We are not trying to be mean but common sense should be used, especially when firearms are involved.

RsqVet
November 8, 2012, 12:37 AM
Capt --

First, what is your plan for safely storing your shotgun when at your girlfriend's if there is no safe and 4 kids? Do you plan to take it in and out of the truck everyday? Sounds like a big pain when an 870 express and a stack on gun cabinet is not all that much money. Neither are "top of the line" but both are adequate and much cheaper than a lawyer if you get yourself in hot water. It seems more like justification for a course of action that appeals to you than a really good solution or idea.

I think your assumption that you will be OK in MD is a big one, and given the anti-gun nature of the state not a risk I would really want to take. For instance what is, or is there a legal statement in MD code as to what "transport" means? does it mean I keep this gun in a case in my vehicle at all times? Note it says transport and not possession, some states refer to posession of firearms in a vehicle... whole other story. Or does it mean you MAY place a gun, in a case and drive it somewhere? See the argument an attorney could make here? You are not "transporting" that involves a start / stop, origin and destination, with some perhaps legitimate use of the gun, or need for the gun at one end or the other. instead one could argue you are carrying --- that is a state of always having the gun in the car, and that is not legal, or could be argued to not be legal or is not the intent of the law's discussion of transport. The fact you are here and elsewhere discussing it as always being there would not help you.

Again unless the word is defined by statute it's going to end up in court IF they want it to, which with the wrong set of luck it could well, then you have to write the big check to an attorney and slug it out in court. Odds are good that you would win, but do you want to bet on it and foot the bill?

You seem to be open to change as you have changed your concept of this considerably from when you started the thread and that's great as you are considering things. I would suggest that you continue to think it through as there are lots of other alternatives in all of this that are likely easier in the political climate you have to live in. Again so far as I am concerned it should be a non issue across the 50 states, but then we know that's a long way off.

TheKlawMan
November 8, 2012, 01:33 AM
It absolutely does have to do with questioning intent when you're accused of "looking for a fight" when posting a question regarding legality of firearm transportation.

I missed where anyone said that and I doubt that you wish to keep the 870 with you and look for trouble. Now that you mention it, you do seem to be trolling and in that fashion "looking for a fight".

scsov509
November 8, 2012, 01:33 AM
Question? Why do you need to drive around with a shotgun in your car, and also if you need to ask these questions, that should be the first indaction that you probably should re think your plan.

I just dont under stand why someone would want to carry a hidden shot gun or 1,000 rounds of ammo in thier vehicle.

This sentence right here. Your going to carry a 870 when you cant carry your ccw. If you have time to go to your truck grab and then load your 870. You have enought time to exit the situation, and thier would be no need for the 870, that is what a jury is going to look at if you happen to shoot someone. There are some legality issues with this. We are not trying to be mean but common sense should be used, especially when firearms are involved.

I'm sorry, how is it any of your business why he wants to transport a shotgun or where he envisions needing one? This is a simple question about the legality of transporting to specific states, not a request for opinions about the desire to use a shotgun for personal defense. :rolleyes:

scsov509
November 8, 2012, 01:43 AM
I missed where anyone said that and I doubt that you wish to keep the 870 with you and look for trouble. Now that you mention it, you do seem to be trolling and in that fashion "looking for a fight".

Try posts 4, 13, 25, and 35. Post 13 states specifically, "I just dont under stand why someone would want to carry a hidden shot gun or 1,000 rounds of ammo in thier vehicle. I dont go around looking for a fire fight, but it seems like some people plan on it."

Sorry, I'm with Capt on this one. He asked a question about transporting a shotgun and got multiple responses demanding he explain the reason for wanting to do so, which by the way were asked by a guy who's been on the forum barely a month. I understand his frustration and don't think it's fair to say he's looking for a fight when his motives have been brought into question in this manner.

TheKlawMan
November 8, 2012, 01:59 AM
Ok, scsov. I see where he was called out for looking for a fight. I don't think anything he has written suggests that he is doing anything of the kind and many of the comments he finds offensive were made to impress him with how local law enforcement may view things if he is found with a shotgun in his car. The question as to the wisdom of taking a shotgun into a home with four children seemed a good one, but there are gun locks for situations of the sort.

scsov509
November 8, 2012, 02:33 AM
Ok, scsov. I see where he was called out for looking for a fight. I don't think anything he has written suggests that he is doing anything of the kind and many of the comments he finds offensive were made to impress him with how local law enforcement may view things if he is found with a shotgun in his car. The question as to the wisdom of taking a shotgun into a home with four children seemed a good one, but there are gun locks for situations of the sort.


The question about taking a shotgun into a home with children is a fantastic one. But since the guy is being responsible enough to take the time and inquire about the legal transport of a shotgun, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he's aware of how to safely handle and store a weapon around others. I just vehemently object to a guy asking a legitimate, responsible question only to be accused of looking for a firefight or thinking he's Rambo. No room for that sort of stuff on this forum. :(

RsqVet
November 8, 2012, 03:24 AM
SCSOV ---

I would like to give the OP the benefit of the doubt here, which I think I have and think that he or anyone deserves. He has clarified things a bit here and has expressed more than a few changed ideas about things.

Likewise give the rest of us the benefit as well, go and read post #1. The question, as posed was NOT, "I visit friends in NY State, can I transport my unloaded shotgun there or anywhere else". The question was regarding a 870, "loaded" in the eye of the law in some states (shells in the side saddle) kept in a "hiding spot" in his new SUV while going to a laundry list of places including possibly NYC, so in the first post at a minimum it seems to be more a discussion of toting around a loaded or unloaded 870 in one's vehicle in any number of less than gun friendly locations.

I hope you can see that this conversation steered the way it did because of how, and what was said in post one. All of us here are likely in agreement that it should not be as hard as it is to figure out the rules for transporting a gun, or have to fear over running afoul of them. Likewise folks seem to be in agreement that the need for an at the ready long arm in a vehicle is microscopic to zero.

Frankly I don't think there is much need to say anything further and the discourse here has been very civil. Internet forums are conversations, they take turns and such no big surprise there and frankly some questions get predictable responses for predictable reasons. If I posted to ask where on a bear was the best placed to shoot it with a 22 magnum to effect a kill should I be surprised when I get asked why or told the folly of this?

scsov509
November 8, 2012, 05:15 AM
Likewise give the rest of us the benefit as well, go and read post #1. The question, as posed was NOT, "I visit friends in NY State, can I transport my unloaded shotgun there or anywhere else".

From post 1: "My question pertains to the legality of transporting the shotgun out of state." Seems to me that was exactly the question posed... :confused:

Regardless, I'm totally willing to give people the benefit of the doubt as you suggest. However, there's no way you can tell me that the comments made in posts 4, 13, 25, and 35 are civil. Accusing a guy of looking for a firefight, comparing him to Rambo, and then finally suggesting that he lacks the common sense to understand what constitutes a judicial use of lethal force isn't civil, and such comments certainly didn't contribute anything to the thread. I'm not interested in fighting, but I'm also not going to turn a blind eye to comments like that when they are clearly inappropriate and unnecessary. If we want the forum to remain civil then we've got to be willing to jump in and say something when comments like the aforementioned are made. :cool:

TheKlawMan
November 8, 2012, 12:32 PM
This thread could be closed for all I care. I have made a point of giving the Captain and you the beneifit, but you don't want to let up. The man has a chip on his shoulder. He asked for legal info and when it was given to him he comes back to me with a smart ass response implying that I was wrong about a hidden shotgun being subject to concealed weapons law. Others documened that I am correct about that issue. This is my last comment on this thread. Please feel free to disregard any I have offered or implied regarding legal issues.

Captains1911
November 8, 2012, 12:47 PM
This thread could be closed for all I care. I have made a point of giving the Captain and you the beneifit, but you don't want to let up. The man has a chip on his shoulder. He asked for legal info and when it was given to him he comes back to me with a smart ass response implying that I was wrong about a hidden shotgun being subject to concealed weapons law. Others documened that I am correct about that issue. This is my last comment on this thread. Please feel free to disregard any I have offered or implied regarding legal issues.

I'm not sure how my comment regarding the concealed gun came across as "smart ass." I was and am curious about it. Not sure why you think I have a chip on my shoulder either.

Corrections Cop
November 8, 2012, 09:41 PM
He asked a question about transporting a shotgun and got multiple responses demanding he explain the reason for wanting to do so, which by the way were asked by a guy who's been on the forum barely a month.

What does this have anything to do with anything. I just wanted to know why he need to carry this shotgun around with him all the time.

I guess since I have only been here a month I am not allowed to ask questions??

Captains1911
November 8, 2012, 10:29 PM
People are differentiating between "carrying" and "transporting", however i don't see the difference, nor have I found anything to suggest a difference. My understanding is that transporting and carrying are considered one in the same, whether you are driving through, to a shooting event, or just to the grocery store or whatnot. If anybody could provide a reference to confirm, clarify, or prove otherwise, it would be appreciated.

FloridaVeteran
November 8, 2012, 10:49 PM
Captains and others - first, I am not a lawyer, nor did I ever violate the premises of a "law school."

It is my civilian understanding that, at least here in Florida, the critical difference between "carrying" and "transporting" is ACCESS. (Couldn't get the Bold to work, vs all-caps) If your gun (shotgun is irrelevant) is 3 steps or more away from access to firing-capable, it is "transporting," AFAIK. That means unloaded, in a container, and locked. A container probably includes a storage compartment in an SUV, for example, and a locked one of those probably meets the definition of the third step.

The meaning of the rule is that it must take at least three dissimilar steps to retrieve, arm and fire the weapon.

In the 1950s I would have thought this requirement outrageous. Today I think it is reasonable because cops are more likely to be shot at than before (never mind our troops abroad). But the people around me today are not like the people who were around me in the 1950s. The Slippery Slope has been "slud."

To me, the lesser of the evils is a CCW permit.

Captains1911
November 10, 2012, 10:41 AM
Three steps....ok.. So I would think folding up the rear seat and removing the gun from the sock would constitute one step, then opening up the rear cargo area to remove and unlock the ammo would be step two, and finally loading the gun step three. Many could argue that process involves more steps, just as I'm sure some could claim it to be fewer. Seems just as interpretational as anything else. I also wonder how "passenger or driver accessible" storing the gun under the rear folding seats would be considered.

dgludwig
November 10, 2012, 12:00 PM
Sorry, I'm with Capt on this one. He asked a question about transporting a shotgun and got multiple responses demanding he explain the reason for wanting to do so, which by the way were asked by a guy who's been on the forum barely a month. I understand his frustration and don't think it's fair to say he's looking for a fight when his motives have been brought into question in this manner.

I agree with scsov509. I carry an unloaded shotgun in my vehicle for much the same reasons as Captains1911 espoused. Furthermore, though I have a ccw permit and carry a concealed handgun most of the time, it's been my experience that, when traveling in states other than my own, a shotgun will be more "legal" in many, if not most, jurisdictions than a handgun is and might raise less eyebrows from some police officers.

I am a retired le after thirty years of service and I can assure you that I'm not driving around looking for a gun fight-and I have no idea why some posters have implied that the op might have that in mind when he just asked a simple question.

With regard to carrying the shotgun legally in most states and municipalities, my advice to the op is to not have rounds in a side-saddle and to keep the gun unloaded in a case with the action open.

comn-cents
November 10, 2012, 01:34 PM
So that you don't have a loaded side saddle on your trunk gun try these.

http://www.esstac.com/Products/7%20Round%20Shotgun%20Card.php

TheKlawMan
November 10, 2012, 02:09 PM
Dg, The OP asked for info on the laws of specific jurisdictions. But do you really think being good to go in "most states and municipalities" is not gong to help him in the District of Columbia if he is out of compliance with its law?

TheKlawMan
November 10, 2012, 02:30 PM
It is my civilian understanding that, at least here in Florida, the critical difference between "carrying" and "transporting" is ACCESS. (Couldn't get the Bold to work, vs all-caps) If your gun (shotgun is irrelevant) is 3 steps or more away from access to firing-capable, it is "transporting," AFAIK. That means unloaded, in a container, and locked. A container probably includes a storage compartment in an SUV, for example, and a locked one of those probably meets the definition of the third step.

See this re the so called Three Step Rule and what is the actual law.

One problem. It's nonsense. Yep, I said it. It doesn't exist. Its' kind of like the Skunk Ape, lots of people have heard about it, but no one has ever seen it. No such rule, no such steps, and it isn't "essentially" the law.

http://blogs.naplesnews.com/florida-law/2011/06/understanding-the-three-step-rule.html

dgludwig
November 10, 2012, 02:39 PM
Dg, The OP asked for info on the laws of specific jurisdictions. But do you really think being good to go in "most states and municipalities" is not gong to help him in the District of Columbia if he is out of compliance with its law?

All of which is why I was careful to use the qualifier "most". Obviously, there are countless exceptions to the "rule" and it is always incumbent for any traveler carrying any kind of a firearm to be aware of the law(s) of specific jurisdictions regarding same.

340 Weatherby
November 10, 2012, 08:59 PM
I just can't see myself driving through the District of Columbia on purpose. There is just way too many Democrats there these days and I don't trust them.

TheKlawMan
November 10, 2012, 09:29 PM
I just can't see myself driving through the District of Columbia on purpose. There is just way too many Democrats there these days and I don't trust them.

But my bro lives . . . I see your point.:eek:

Sport45
November 11, 2012, 12:36 AM
Best leave the politics out of it. I imagine you can find TFL members on both sides and independent as well.

scottd913
November 13, 2012, 06:12 PM
i have tried to make sense out of all of this...being from Texas where, when it comes to a shotgun it can be carried is a car or p/u truck LOADED and not counseled or counseled and loaded or carried in vehicle unloaded in a box or a sock.
laying on the back seat or front seat in other words its legal to carry a shotgun in you personal vehicle.

seems the op WANTS TO CARRY A SHOTGUN NO MATTER WHAT HE IS TOLD ....I SAY TO HIM MOVE TO TEXAS or leave gun at home ...unless going to jail means as much to you as other peoples answers to your questions just load it up and go where ever you want!!

my lawyer tell's me to remind all of you that THIS IS NOT MEANT TO BE LEGAL ADVISE ....I am not a lawyer nor do i play one on tv

do not try this at home:D


in the case of DC area i agree with.......... WHY:eek:

dgludwig
November 13, 2012, 06:58 PM
I SAY TO HIM MOVE TO TEXAS

Yeah, that's going to happen. You got any more useful advice? :rolleyes:

scottd913
November 13, 2012, 07:27 PM
well it just seems to me that he wants to live under the same laws as we have down here...the other thing he could do is run for office and try to change the law but that will never happen. it's hard to run for office in multiple states right?

Captains1911
November 13, 2012, 08:18 PM
Texas is very very low on my list of places I wish to live. But that's irrelevant to this thread.

wwblevins
November 20, 2012, 04:20 PM
I'm in Northern Virginia and often cross into Maryland, and seldom into D.C.
I have had my CCW in Virginia since they were first issued in 1997.
I never have a weapon when I cross into either locale. It is illegal to do so. Forget D.C. under any situation; and keep in mind, in D.C. ammo is considered a weapon! I usually have a couple of 20-round boxes of ammo in my console.
Once I forgot to remove them, and went to an event at the Verizon Center. The valet guys could have been nosey and discovered them.
I'd be in big trouble.
This is the most idiotic set of laws I know of, but it is what we deal with living next to to non-free states.
It sucks, but unless you want to risk losing your weapons, maybe even your job, if they want to make an example of you and search your home as well.