PDA

View Full Version : .308 Carbine suggestions?


Dashunde
October 29, 2012, 03:56 PM
Its time to add a all-purpose semi-auto rifle to my collection.
I'm looking for a 16-17" carbine .308 of decent quality at minimal expense (think Glock/CZ persona).
Ideally it would have a accessory rail and able to mount a scope on top and a Burris FastFire at 45 degrees or on on the side for short range.

Basically I'm looking for something like the SA M1A, a AR-10 without the handle or maybe a Remington 750.

By all-purpose I mean capable of deer hunting, defense, bear defense, hogs, rapid fire up close and reasonably good accuracy out to a couple hundred yards or so.

I really dont know much about rifles, I mostly need a shopping list of well known decent quality items that are a good value... Suggestions?

hodaka
October 29, 2012, 04:00 PM
Check out the PTR - 91 if you don't mind a little weight.

RadioFlyer8
October 30, 2012, 02:49 AM
Maybe look at an FNAR.

loose_holster_dan
October 30, 2012, 07:38 AM
not sure what minimal cost is, but these are great.

http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=400

308 carbines are much more expensive than their 556 counterparts.

allaroundhunter
October 30, 2012, 11:32 AM
It will be hard to find a lightweight and maneuverable .308 carbine. The rifles that have been mentioned all are quite heavy and have longer barrels (with the possible exception of the Rock River).

Patriot86
October 30, 2012, 12:39 PM
SIG 716 is pretty small as far as a 308 Carbine....cheap? Depends on how you define cheap.

The PTR-91/HK-G3 clones are a BATTLE RIFLE clone. Not a carbine by any stretch. Much more of a DMR/Target type rifle.

roashooter
October 30, 2012, 12:39 PM
Ruger GSR

ATW525
October 30, 2012, 01:32 PM
The PTR-91/HK-G3 clones are a BATTLE RIFLE clone. Not a carbine by any stretch. Much more of a DMR/Target type rifle.

PTR Industries make quite a few carbine models with 16" barrels.

allaroundhunter
October 30, 2012, 03:07 PM
Ruger GSR

I understand getting confused in the longer threads, but seriously, you are poster #7 and you didn't even read enough of the OP to see this?...

Its time to add a all-purpose semi-auto rifle to my collection.

Heck, that is the first sentence of the OP. Try to ready more than just the title of a thread before responding...

hodaka
October 30, 2012, 03:25 PM
The difference between a rifle and a carbine is very subjective.

allaroundhunter
October 30, 2012, 04:06 PM
The difference between a rifle and a carbine is very subjective.

That isn't what I was emphasizing. I was emphasizing how he recommended a bolt-action when the OP specifically said semi-automatic.

roashooter
October 30, 2012, 04:25 PM
quote..." I really do not know much about rifles......." kinda gives the clue that other options...other than "SEMI-AUTO".....should/could/would be considered....considering the general doitall aspect of the carbine......but thanks for pointing this out for me...allaroundhunter....cuzIdontread good...

and it is a stretch....to describe a SA M1A...as a carbine...even with the short barrel.....

Dashunde
October 30, 2012, 04:34 PM
^ Yea, but not new to rifles in general (born in the woods), just dont know much about what is currently available or what is a good bargin.
I am looking for semi-auto. That bolt isnt far off the mark overall, just looking for rapid fire ability at closer range (hogs, bears, elk, wolves, moose, etc)

I'm trying to stay under $1000 - So any respectable short 308 semi-auto suggestion is appriciated.

Its part of the budget for a extended vacation/drive to Alaska via Yellowstone, NW Idaho, and on up the AlCan during the thawed/warmer season - a 2 year plan is in the works :)

Great suggestions, I didnt know most of those existed, thanks and keep them coming :)

roashooter
October 30, 2012, 04:38 PM
only 308.....that will come under the $1000....is going to be a bolt...with the exception of the remmy 750

allaroundhunter
October 30, 2012, 04:38 PM
and it is a stretch....to describe a SA M1A...as a carbine...even with the short barrel.....

The Socom 16 and Socom II are both part of the M1A line. Having a 16" barrel puts them into the "carbine" category quite easily as far as most people are concerned. I don't know what about it would make you think otherwise?

roashooter
October 30, 2012, 04:41 PM
allaround....by your own posting.....SA are too heavy for "carbines"....inspite of what SA says.....otherwise why are you nitpicking?

allaroundhunter
October 30, 2012, 04:41 PM
You might be able to find a DPMS Sportical .308 for under $1,000. There really won't be many other .308s at that price range.

I forgot about this one for a second. A Saiga in .308 can be found for less than $1,000 quite regularly.

allaround....buy your own posting.....SA are too heavy for "carbines"....inspite of what SA says

I don't know when I gave a specific weight limit to classify a gun as a "carbine"?

Having shot both Socom II's and AR-10 pattern rifles, the Socom is much more maneuverable. I haven't even looked at Springfield's specifications on this. Numbers on a page mean much less than hands-on experience.


And when I made the comment concerning weight and maneuverability I was specifically referring to the FNAR and PTR-91.

Dashunde
October 30, 2012, 04:47 PM
"Carbine", "Ranch Gun", etc... I dont care, so long as its 16-17", the rest is symantics.
I'm open to all of them really, regardless of nomenclature.

Weight is important, I would like to walk with it, but price will play a equally large role.

Departed402
October 30, 2012, 05:40 PM
I'm in the same boat you are, same philosophies if use and everything! I ordered a DPMS 308 Recon. It will suit all of your specified needs. I'm getting mine for $1275.00.

Patriot86
October 30, 2012, 05:46 PM
Maybe you should rethink a .308 Semi-Auto Carbine for under $1,000.00.
In that price range you would perhaps be better off looking for something in 7.62x39 or saving up until you have a little more cash to drop.

PTR-91 will run you about $1,000.00 but they are by no means light. AK's are not that light either but the ammunition will be much less expensive.

Of the creatures you listed below the only one I am unsure of would be 7.62x39 vs a Bear. I have not and do not know anyone who has had to shoot at bear with an AK or SKS type rifle. Despite what you read; you can hit man sized targets out past 100 yards with an AK style rifle.

SurplusShooter
October 30, 2012, 06:30 PM
How about a saiga in .308 it seems to fit all of your criteria. Light weight, 16 inch bbl, mag fed, reliable, and its under 1k.

wlkalong
October 30, 2012, 06:33 PM
A possible suggestion is a FAL with 16 or 18 inch barrel. I have a DSA FAL Para with 16 inch barrel. The short gas version weighs 8.25 pounds. I have the regular length gas system, so it weighs a little more.

FAL's have excellent ergonomics, low recoil for a .308 (thanks to the adjustable gas system) and can be set up to for a scope or red dot easily. They are extremely reliable and pretty accurate, though a little less then a M1A.

They are a battle tested design, fielded by over 70's countries, all over the world. Bostons Gun Bible ranks the FAL and M1A as the top battle rifles, but that does not include the SCAR- which might take top honors these days, except for the cost. Larry Vickers is also a big fan of the platform.

You can read a lot more about them on the falfiles.

jmr40
October 30, 2012, 06:46 PM
He may have specified semi, but he described a bolt action. By all-purpose I mean capable of deer hunting, defense, bear defense, hogs, rapid fire up close and reasonably good accuracy out to a couple hundred yards or so.

That is what he should be looking at. One of the scout rifles would be about ideal.

allaroundhunter
October 30, 2012, 06:51 PM
He may have specified semi, but he described a bolt action.

For defense, I will take a semi over a bolt anytime. For hog hunting, I will take a semi over a bolt anytime. For rapid fire up close, I will take a semi over a bolt anytime.

Within 200 yards, there will not be much of a difference in accuracy between a bolt and a semi. I would also have no problems whitetail hunting with a semi, but either a bolt or a semi would work for that application.

ripnbst
October 30, 2012, 09:36 PM
My vote is bump your budget slightly and go AR-10 platform...or go Saiga .308 if you stay under 1k. The AR-10 will likely be more accurate but I think it will also be the heavier of the two.

Ridge_Runner_5
October 30, 2012, 10:27 PM
$1100 DSA FAL 16"

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1DSASTG5816&name=FAL+STG+58+DSA+308cal+Rifle+16%22+barrel&groupid=11

arizona98tj
November 2, 2012, 01:37 AM
A 16" barrel FNAR. 8.13 pounds, four 1913 rails, chrome lined fluted barrel, target crown, 1 MOA or better from the factory. Good consistent trigger. Mine didn't shoot 1 MOA....FNH put a new barrel on it under warranty. Now it does. I have the 20" heavy barrel model and like it. A fast Google search found a 20" model listed for sale by a dealer for $979. They are out there for a fair price.

p loader
November 2, 2012, 02:19 AM
I have a SAI SOCOM 16. It's heavy. I'm going to upgrade to a SAGE platform, which will add 4 lbs. While sexy the added weight (vs that of my AR's) make it bulky. Not exactly my "go to" gun if SHTF, regardless of stopping power.

Baba Louie
November 2, 2012, 06:31 AM
Centerfire Systems has a VEPR in .308, 16.5" barrel less than $700 (on sale now $599+S/H). One option.
http://centerfiresystems.com/308-6.aspx

SAIGAs version of the VEPR (AK format) can still be found.

Could look for an older Win 100... if older carbine/rifles float yer boat. Or an older used Browning BAR short trac, stalker etc.

I know you specified semi auto, but do not overlook Brownings lever action for woods walking and I guess, home defense if you want/need.

Looking at todays prices, I'm glad I bought mine back when they were cheaper (or the dollar was stronger). None of them are light enough I'd want to lug around and stalk prey all day long (M1A, FAL and an AK variant) and as you know, most bolt actions are a tad bit more accurate, if that's really germaine to you. Not to mention the price of running .308 thru a semi auto (so easy to go thru 20 rds in a flash... cha-ching)

Enjoy your quest Dashunde, hunting for the one you want, and/or rationalizing the one you get, lots of fun.

Dashunde
November 2, 2012, 07:42 AM
I came across a imperceptibly used (nary a scuff) DPMS .308 yesterday. It appears nicely made and was priced at $1000.
It’s very similar to Recon (http://www.dpmsinc.com/308-RECON_ep_93-1.html).
To make it mine I'd like to swap out the existing fore end and iron sights, essentially turn it into the DPMS Compact Hunter (http://www.dpmsinc.com/COMPACT-HUNTER_ep_151-1.html).

In the end though, I'd probably end up spending more converting the used one to my taste than I would if I just bought a Compact Hunter from the start?
Is the 4-rail fore end worth anything in the forums, to off-set the cost?

There is also the slightly longer DPMS Lite Hunter for ~$1200 ready to go (and it appears to be available).

Dr Big Bird PhD
November 2, 2012, 03:37 PM
Have you thought about not limiting yourself to a .308? When i was researching AR platforms I originally wanted a cheap versatile semi-auto that I could use for mid size game hunting. Obviously a 5.56 wouldn't work other than rabbits and coyotes, but getting an AR10 was also out of my price range.

Have you thought about settling on a buying a $250 lower for an AR15 and then buying a bison armory 6.8 upper? It would be a 16 inch carbine style weapon with adequate hunting capabilities. Ammunition would be more expensive and you couldn't buy it in bulk, but on the front end the lower and upper would run you under 750 w/o tax. You would need to get iron sights and optics, but that would still run under 1000 unless you were going fancy.

barnbwt
November 2, 2012, 11:07 PM
'nuther vote for the FNAR...not really a carbine, though. Most of the rifles mentioned don't seem like carbines either; long/bull barrels, or big, heavy receivers. I was looking for a 308 carbine recently and came to the conclusion that they don't really exist. The closest was the Garand-derived BM59; 19" barrel, folding stock, 20rnd mag, ~8lbs empty. Too bad they're upwards of 2000$ if you can find one. A stripped down (i.e. lightened receiver) M14 with lightweight folding furniture might work, as would a compacted AR10, I guess. But there seems to be little market for a "handy" lightweight carry-carbine in 308.

TCB

Dashunde
November 2, 2012, 11:17 PM
not limiting yourself to a .308?

I'm pretty set on it, lots of pluses for me. Its available everywhere and I cant think of anything it wouldnt kill rapidly.

I'm starting to burrow into the DPMS rifles.
I liked what I felt and saw for the money.

HiBC
November 2, 2012, 11:25 PM
Advertised weight of my DPMS LR308L is 7.9 lbs.18 in bbl.Nice trigger.Flattop.Carbon fiber free float tube.Has dust cover/fwd assist.Not sure of current price.

jmr40
November 3, 2012, 12:29 AM
He may have specified semi, but he described a bolt action.

For defense, I will take a semi over a bolt anytime. For hog hunting, I will take a semi over a bolt anytime. For rapid fire up close, I will take a semi over a bolt anytime.

Within 200 yards, there will not be much of a difference in accuracy between a bolt and a semi. I would also have no problems whitetail hunting with a semi, but either a bolt or a semi would work for that application.

He said lightweight, he can get a bolt gun under 6 lbs scoped within his budget and buy 2 of them under 7 lbs including optics with his budget. He'll have a hard time finding semi that will come in under 10 lbs with optics. Not something to walk around with, which he specified.

As a pure SD rifle a semi is the way to go, but for all around use the bolt still wins. While I don't agree 100% with Coopers scout rifle concept, this is exactly what it was designed for.

Being able to shoot fast is one thing. Being able to shoot fast and hit stuff is another. With as much recoil as a 308 has when compared to a 223 round the controlling factor is getting your sights back on target. I can get off 3 shots with a semi in around 1/2 second compared to 1.8 seconds with a 308 bolt rifle. But that is not aiming at anything. When I have to make hits on a target down range the semi is only slightly faster for 3 shots. Around 3.5 seconds vs 4 seconds for 3 shots that all hit a 9" target at 50 yards.

From everything he has said he wants to do with the gun a 308 bolt carbine with an 18-20" barrel meets his needs better than anything. I have no problems with some using a semi, but they don't make what he is describing in a semi. He is trying to put a square peg in a round hole.

stubbicatt
November 3, 2012, 07:54 AM
+1 on the PTR91 carbine. Nicely balanced, easy to use, shoots great. If I were doing this, I'd get a standard length and cut the barrel back to just in front of the front sight base and thread a brake or flash hider on at that point. Longer sight radius and easier to find handguards and what not with the standard length setup. Can do a recessed crown or 11 degree or what have you.

I have obtained some prodigious groupings with my (now ancient) PTR91.

Plus it takes the Hensholdt scope readily, and that is a superb optic.

rugerdawg
November 5, 2012, 01:37 PM
I recently acquired a CMMG 16" sst lightweight .308 and have to say I am very pleased with it. It is the lightest .308 I was able to find and it shoots about .75 moa with premium ammo. It comes with a billet upper and lower and their new two -stage trigger.I added a spikes dynacomp to help tame the recoil. I've owned three armalite ar-10's and this will hang with them all day.

BoomieMCT
November 6, 2012, 09:01 AM
At or under $1000 is pretty tough but there are some options if you shop around.

PTR-91 (look for the 16"er or the military profile barrel)
Saiga .308
VEPR .308
FNAR (comes in a shorter barrel version)
Browning BAR (just get scope rings with little rails for a red dot)
DPMS Sportical

I've seen the FNAR and PTR at CDNN for good prices.

Carne Frio
November 6, 2012, 11:25 AM
I have one of the Bushmaster MOE in .308 and
like it a lot. :D
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/77836

Note: Driving the Alcan with a .308 ist verboten !
The Canadian government frowns upon armed
Americans driving through their scenic country.

Dashunde
November 7, 2012, 12:20 PM
^ That Bushmaster is pretty close, and the price is ok too.
Are there any issues with taking off the iron front sight?

The Canadians frown on it? I wasnt expecting that...
How do we manage all of the Canadian big game hunting up there?
If the destination is our own AK, do we have any "peaceable journey" deals with them?
Maybe thats another thread for elsewhere.

The Long Shot
November 7, 2012, 11:53 PM
I'd recommend a FNAR. They're about the best you can get on a budget. I have no experience with CMMG .308s so I can't speak on behalf of them, but they're supposed to be decent. I'd still take the FNAR though.

If you are willing to go above the price of the FNAR, look at the DPMS LR308 Recon.

sailskidrive
November 8, 2012, 10:33 AM
I would suggest saving a little longer; shooting 308 on a regular basis gets expensive...

gunfighter48
November 9, 2012, 03:49 AM
I have a DPMS LR 308 Oracle that is a great rifle. Got it from the local Cabelas for $1099.00. It will shoot factory 168 gr bullets into a .655 in group all day if I do my part, which isn't often enough!!

Dashunde
December 27, 2012, 07:48 PM
Rats... that kid really messed everything up. :mad:

SR420
December 27, 2012, 07:55 PM
I'm enjoying my CQB-16 type SEI in a Blackfeather "RS".

http://www.athenswater.com/images/12-20-12_CQB-16-BFRS_large.jpg

Dashunde
December 27, 2012, 08:00 PM
I guess I've opened my options up to the FNAR too.

BoomieMCT
December 27, 2012, 09:47 PM
I had a PTR. Up until recently you could get them sub $1000 from CDNN. It shot okay (2 MOA maybe). To scope it you'll need a claw mount or an add-on rail as well as a cheekpiece ($50 from Cherokee). That would put you over the $1000 mark even before the current craziness. I thought the irons were some of the best I've ever used.

A friend had a .308 VEPR. It shot about the same, costs less ($700 when he got it) but is harder to scope (there are side mount scope mounts but I don't think they are very straight and they sit awful high).

Both come in 16" if you want them that short.

I've heard you can cut down the barrel on a Browning BAR which would make it a bit cheaper then a FNAR. It would be easier to scope then the PTR or VEPR.

DATL
December 29, 2012, 02:00 AM
If I had a budget of $1000 I would either do some sort of AK variant or just consider a good bolty like the GSR so you still get some tactical feel you seem to want :) (Don't yell at me for throwing a bolty in there allaroundhunter)

Dashunde
December 29, 2012, 03:16 AM
I'm not at all after a tactical look or feel, in fact I'm partial to the looks of a wood stock instead,
Unfortunately it seems most that cover my bases come looking that way.

I'm really warming up to the FNAR...

SR420
December 29, 2012, 08:33 AM
I'm not at all after a tactical look or feel, in fact I'm partial to the looks of a wood stock instead...

That's an easy requirement to fill if you go with the M14/M1A.

http://www.athenswater.com/images/SOCOM16-Birch.jpg

Dashunde
December 29, 2012, 10:36 AM
Easier said than paid for. I really like the M1A but I think I'm priced out of it.
How difficult are they to put a scope on? I was hoping to land on a rifle with a standard rail or flat top setup.
I'm not sure I like those side mounts, they kind of mess up the looks for me.

barnbwt
December 29, 2012, 10:04 PM
I'm really warming up to the FNAR...
Give in to the madness :D "one of us, one of us..."

BTW, the BAR Shorttrac buttstock can be modded to fit the FNAR, for a more "traditional" sporter profile without the pistol grip. I wish FNH offered it as an option or even "upgrade" from their parts department, since the pistol grip is what turns off the majority of people who decide against the "hicap" BAR.

I haven't checked, but it's likely the prices of FNARs are bidded up (slightly) less than their AR/military competitors by dummies right now. I just got a great deal on a shotgun from Gunbroker (I think) solely because so many folks are distracted by Plastic-Panic.

EDIT: Yup, they've "only" gone up 30-40%, as opposed to tripling in value :rolleyes: (1200-1400). Makes them an even better choice over an AR pattern rifle for affordable accuracy than ever (do I sound like a car salesman yet? :P)

TCB

Dashunde
December 29, 2012, 10:20 PM
Agreed, the prices aren't absurd so far.
I'm not going to buy anything for a few weeks and keep a close eye on the prices instead.
If the FN's also start to climb I'll grab one before it too gets silly.

I like the pistol grip on it :)

Truth be told its exactly what I'm looking for, it checks all the boxes I started with, and then some...

CTS
December 30, 2012, 09:04 AM
If you are interested in the FNAR you might want to look at this: http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/sale-complete-firearms/92638-wts-fnar-16-fluted-nearly-new.html