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Hansam
October 21, 2012, 07:51 AM
I bought a brand new upper (.223/5.56) from a gun show. No manufacturer markings anywhere on it. The seller claimed it was NIB/never fired. Now I tried to shoot with it and there's a problem.

The cartridge won't go into full battery. I chamber a round and its still about 1/4" out of battery. The bullet then seats very tightly inside the gun and requires that the charging handle be tapped with a mallet to get the cartridge to extract. There are scratches on the bullet (not the case) when this occurs.

Never ran into this problem before. Any suggestions/ideas on remedying the issue?

Palmetto-Pride
October 21, 2012, 10:28 AM
Could you take a pic looking down the chamber and barrel and post it?

Also without a round will the BCG go into full battery by itself?

UtopiaTexasG19
October 21, 2012, 10:38 AM
Are these factory rounds or re-loads? Do you have the gauges/equipment to properly measure the rounds? Have you tried another brand/weight?

Hansam
October 21, 2012, 10:54 AM
1. Rounds tried - factory loaded Federal Eagle .223, Federal 5.56, Winchester white box and some hand loads by me, 68grain sp.

2. Yes the BCG will go into full battery without a round in it.

3. Photos will be problematic - camera is broken and phone can't seem to get a good clear pick of the chamber.

Creeper
October 21, 2012, 10:58 AM
I chamber a round and its still about 1/4" out of battery.
The cartridge is 1/4" out of being fully chambered? Can you duplicate this without using the bolt to chamber the round?
The bullet then seats very tightly inside the gun
Specifically... the bullet? There are leade and or rifling marks engraved on the bullet? Where on the bullet... tip, ogive, shank?

C

Hansam
October 21, 2012, 11:23 AM
Ok so I decided to "ram" the round into battery. After chambering it I took the upper off and gave the BCG a good rap with a rubber mallet.

As expected the whole thing snapped into battery. I then extracted it (took several raps to the charging handle with the mallet) and examined the cartridge.

There were some markings on the bullet itself however I believe that these marks came from being stripped from the magazine. I now notice that there are obvious marks on the casing itself. I've attached a photo of the cartridge itself after I managed to extract it.

http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p526/Hansam1911/20121021_111317_zps6a0df1d5.jpg

Note the markings on the rim of the case and around the shoulder of the cartridge... Is the chamber too tight? This is a Federal Brass Eagle brand .223, not 5.56.

How do I go about fixing this now?

Btw, there is no damage to the actual chamber, BCG or charging handle after this.

plouffedaddy
October 21, 2012, 11:28 AM
Is the chamber too tight?

Yes.

You said there were no marks on it but I'm wondering if it may be a 5.45x39 barrel? A lot of companies (S&W, PSA, ect...) make them; maybe the builder didn't know what the heck he was doing...

Ridge_Runner_5
October 21, 2012, 11:50 AM
On the top of the barrel, between the flash hider and the front sight, there should be markings that indicate the caliber and the twist rate. Can you find them and put on what it says?

Hansam
October 21, 2012, 12:33 PM
There are no markings whatsoever on the upper or barrel designating caliber.

The barrel is a heavy barrel profile, 20" long and devoid of any markings. I've taken the hand guard/forearm off and found that to be the case beneath the hand guard too.

There is a square that seems to have been cast into the upper just above the forward assist. I'll attach a photo.

That is the only marking on the whole assembly.

http://i1154.photobucket.com/albums/p526/Hansam1911/uppermarking_zps36e89e14.jpg

Creeper
October 21, 2012, 02:10 PM
I'm wondering if it may be a 5.45x39 barrel?
Good chance of that.

5.56X45
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5f/5.56x45mm_NATO.jpg/400px-5.56x45mm_NATO.jpg

5.45X39
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3a/5.45x39mm.jpg/400px-5.45x39mm.jpg

Palmetto-Pride
October 21, 2012, 02:51 PM
There is a square that seems to have been cast into the upper just above the forward assist. I'll attach a photo.

The markings on the upper have nothing to do with what kind of barrel it may be since you can install different caliber barrels on the same upper.

That is the only marking on the whole assembly.

Wow I cant believe there is not any marking on the barrel itself that identifies what caliber and twist rate it is.:confused:

Like this:

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w155/bojack2575/aca0e84a.jpg

Skadoosh
October 21, 2012, 04:10 PM
Perhaps the barrel stamping is hidden under the handguard?

Hansam
October 21, 2012, 04:28 PM
I took the hand guard off. No markings on the barrel at all. I thought that was strange too.

allaroundhunter
October 21, 2012, 05:29 PM
Your best bet is going to be to take it to a gunsmith and have them determine the caliber. Definitely sounds like it is not a .223/5.56 barrel.

Ridge_Runner_5
October 21, 2012, 06:12 PM
^ Agreed

TMD
October 21, 2012, 06:22 PM
Gotta love those gun show bargins. :rolleyes:

BillM
October 21, 2012, 06:42 PM
I had a 16" Oly Arms upper that had a tight chamber. It would chamber
some brands, but not others. Had a gunsmith give it a quick pass with
a chambering reamer---now it eats anything. It happens--tools wear out,
stuff gets manufactured at high speed and low cost, and sometimes
the quality control department steps out for a cup of coffee.:)

Hansam
October 21, 2012, 09:59 PM
I'm going to check out the possibility that it may be a 5.45x39 upper. I'll take it in to my LGS and have their gunsmith check it out.

brian923
October 21, 2012, 10:00 PM
when loking into the chamber end with the upper off the lower, can you see if there is something obstructing the chamber/bore? maybe a stuck broke. case thag was never taken out?

allaroundhunter
October 21, 2012, 10:06 PM
when loking into the chamber end with the upper off the lower, can you see if there is something obstructing the chamber/bore? maybe a stuck broke. case thag was never taken out?

If there was a broken casing in the way he would not be able to even force a good round into the chamber.

2damnold4this
October 22, 2012, 09:34 AM
I wouldn't think he would be able to force the bolt to close on a .223 if he had a 5.45x39 chamber.

allaroundhunter
October 22, 2012, 09:54 AM
I wouldn't think he would be able to force the bolt to close on a .223 if he had a 5.45x39 chamber.

It would be easier than forcing it closed on a jammed casing.

Sent from my HTC One X

brian923
October 22, 2012, 01:34 PM
opps. i missed where he forced a round into the chamber.... with a mallet.... why would you do this??? floating firing pin.... makes tons of sence. I wouldnt do it again as you might not get that lucky again...

Scorch
October 22, 2012, 02:23 PM
You cannot force a 5.56X45 NATO cartridge into a 5.45X39 chamber, there is almost 1/4" of difference from the case head to the shoulder and the forces required would be fantastic. The 1/4" he is seeing when the bolt does not go into battery is the distance the bolt head has to travel into the bolt carrier in order to cam the lugs into the barrel extension.

It does sound like the chamber is too tight. Find a gunsmith that has the appropriate reamer and headspace gauges and have the chamber touched up.

Hansam
October 22, 2012, 04:04 PM
First I apologize as I failed to mention that I did not force the round to chamber with the firing pin in the bolt. Its easy enough to take out and no I don't consider myself a very lucky guy so I never leave things up to luck.

Second my LGS confirmed that it was NOT chambered for 5.45x39 bit rather just a poorly made barrel for .223. I'm going to have them fix the problem and thus ends this quandary.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

Ridge_Runner_5
October 22, 2012, 04:33 PM
Glad to hear they are taking care of you!

brian923
October 22, 2012, 07:42 PM
thats a good lgs. mine around hear would just try n sell Ya something new. I am glad to hear you were using your head and being safe. Thats always the best practice. I hope you didnt take my earlyier post for me being a douche, if you did, I can see how and I appologize. I was at work and didnt think about what I was typing. Im glad you got it figured out. shouldnt be a long or hard fix. let us know how it shoots when you get it back!

Palmetto-Pride
October 23, 2012, 05:59 AM
I have a spare 16" 1-9 5.56/223 mid length gas barrel that came off my M&P15T I would sell it to ya for cheap if they can't get that one worked out. I would like to get $50.00 plus shipping. It has probably around 2000 rounds thru it there was nonthng wrong with it I just replaced it with a 300 AAC BLK barrel.

Hansam
October 23, 2012, 04:29 PM
Thanks for the offer Palmetto-Pride. My favorite LGS fixed my issue for me albeit in a rather round-about way.

They called me while I was at work and asked if it was ok for them to just put a new barrel on the gun (at no additional cost) because their gunsmith had lost focus for just the slightest bit and managed to irreparably damage my barrel while he was reaming it out. Of course I said yes. Now we're just waiting on a new 20" heavy profile barrel (which they didn't have in stock) and then its all going to be in working order. This is why this LGS is my favorite.

I'll have a range report when I get the complete upper mounted with optics and put on a lower.

Valerko
October 23, 2012, 05:29 PM
I guess that worked out pretty good at the end.
Good luck

Justice06RR
October 24, 2012, 01:55 AM
Did you get a screaming bargain for this upper?

The fact that there was no kind of brand/manufacturer marking on the receiver and barrel is very sketchy. That is a huuuuge red flag. Even a wrong chamber or barrel could easily injure you if you fired the wrong cartridge.


Sorry to hear but I hope it works out. Probably not your fault what happend. Do you have the contact info of the gunshow seller by any chance? Every time I buy anything at a gun show I always get the sellers business card just in case.