PDA

View Full Version : Palmetto State VS Windham Weaponry


presence
October 13, 2012, 04:08 PM
Torn between the 2 for my first AR. Both are in the $700-$800 range and both have a reputation for being the best "low cost" AR. Which do I give the green light? I want to eventually put a 4 rail forearm on it.

Fishbed77
October 13, 2012, 04:29 PM
PSA is the easy choice here.

dos0711
October 13, 2012, 04:46 PM
Windham Weaponry is the easy choice here.

bbqbob51
October 13, 2012, 06:27 PM
Just bought a Windham Weaponry special edition SRC from Cabelas. It has a laser etched American flag on it and best of all $10 from each sale goes to wounded veterans. Compared it several different manufacturers and it was the best in the price range. WW workers have a total of Decades of firearms manufacturing and make an excellent product.

DasGuy
October 13, 2012, 06:43 PM
Does Windham (formerly Bushmaster) use parts / testing that are at least up to milspec standards?

PSA does.

jmr40
October 13, 2012, 07:25 PM
I looked at the specs and decided the PSA was the better gun. But I don't think you would go wrong with either. I have 1 complete PSA rifle with a PSA upper on a Rock River lower. The FN made 1:7 barrel was the deciding factor for me.

presence
October 13, 2012, 08:09 PM
Yes! Yes! Yes! This is the exact back-and-forth I wanted to see!! Keep it comin boys (and girls, maybe)!!

Thanks to all!

Fishbed77
October 13, 2012, 08:44 PM
Does Windham (formerly Bushmaster) use parts / testing that are at least up to milspec standards?

PSA does.


That's why PSA is indeed the easy choice here.

Not that Windham makes a bad product. It's just that PSA offers a better product for the same (or less) money.

plouffedaddy
October 13, 2012, 08:57 PM
Very Good Windham Review Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PVEitTfxm0)

The best WW review I've seen yet above by Sturm. My experience with three of their rifles mirrors his; I just haven't gotten around to shooting a review yet...

madcratebuilder
October 14, 2012, 06:06 AM
I think the new Windham is a good product, reviews I have read are all very positive. BUT, the PSA well have a CMV 1-7 FN barrel and a HPT, MPI, C158 bolt and 8620 heat treated carrier. In other words a mil-spec barrel and BCG and that is the heart of the rifle, the rest is window dressing.

dos0711
October 14, 2012, 08:26 AM
http://http://windhamweaponry.com/pdf/UpdatedTechSheets/MPCMSRPPRICING.pdf (http://windhamweaponry.com/pdf/UpdatedTechSheets/MPCMSRPPRICING.pdf)

Windham Weaponry also has a transferable lifetime warranty against defects.

RT
October 14, 2012, 04:40 PM
PSA just because they have FN barrels

droptrd
October 14, 2012, 07:30 PM
Mil-spec doesnt guaranty an accurate reliable firearm. Just sayin.

ripnbst
October 14, 2012, 07:36 PM
Palmetto all day erry day. For reasons already stated.

madcratebuilder
October 16, 2012, 07:26 AM
Mil-spec doesnt guaranty an accurate reliable firearm. Just sayin.

Core parts such as barrels, bolt, carriers, charging handles and RE's that meet the mil-spec well have a higher long term reliability factor vs the same commercial grade parts.

Commercial grade vs mil-spec, at the same cost, I would always go with mil-spec.

That does not mean we need to have mil-spec parts for a reliable rifle.

rebs
October 16, 2012, 01:07 PM
Windham Weaponry is the old Bushmaster company reopened as Windham Weaponry when Remington voided their deal by moving production to Ilion, NY.
Windham Weaponry is an excellent reliable and accurate rifle that comes with a transferable life time warranty.
My choice would definitely be the WIndham hands down without a doubt.

What is the big thing about mil-spec ? Is your Remington semi auto mil-spec? Is your Winchester or and other brand of semi auto rifles mil-spec ?

Fishbed77
October 16, 2012, 03:00 PM
What is the big thing about mil-spec ? Is your Remington semi auto mil-spec? Is your Winchester or and other brand of semi auto rifles mil-spec ?

No AR is truly "mil-spec" unless it has a select-fire trigger group and lower reciever.

That said, there are benefits to the "mil-spec" components used by PSA, as compared to the Windham rifles, such as the M16 BCG (which in theory slows down the action and reduces wear & tear), the mil-spec buffer tube (which allows a wider range of aftermarket stocks) HP & MPI testing (which adds a little peace of mind), 1:7 barrel twist (which allows better accuracy when firing heavier bullets), as well as things like hammer-forging of the barrel (which allows for tougher steel).

Bamashooter
October 16, 2012, 07:10 PM
Sure there are benefits to PSA's milspec parts. They arent the only ones with quality parts and you probably wont have to wait for 3--6 months to get your ''milspec'' stuff.

highpower3006
October 16, 2012, 07:27 PM
I did quite a bit of research and settled on the PSA. So far this rifle that cost me about $550 total has performed flawlessly. It is very accurate and has about 2K rounds through it with no failures at all.

http://highpower.smugmug.com/Firearms/AR15/i-jHdS7Z5/0/XL/IMG0956-XL.jpg

madcratebuilder
October 17, 2012, 09:06 AM
What is the big thing about mil-spec ? Is your Remington semi auto mil-spec? Is your Winchester or and other brand of semi auto rifles mil-spec ?


Yes, they are.
My Garands, Carbines and half my M1A's are mil-spec, it's the way they come.;)

A mil-spec part is made in a specific manor with specific materials. In the world of AR's mil-spec components are generally of superior material and construction. IMHO what is important for the AR owner/buyer, is to know what the differences are between the two.

Just because these mil-spec parts are available for the AR does not mean you need them in order to have a reliable AR. There are more commercial grade AR's around than mil-spec AR's. For most shooters it makes little difference if the rifle is mil-spec or commercial grade as long as it goes bang when they pull the trigger.

Fishbed77
October 17, 2012, 11:47 AM
Yes, they are.
My Garands, Carbines and half my M1A's are mil-spec, it's the way they come.

Heck yeah!

Here's my true mil-spec Springfield Armory M1 Garand from the CMP.


http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff427/Fishbed77/DSC_0128.jpg

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff427/Fishbed77/DSC_0122.jpg

rebs
October 17, 2012, 12:15 PM
I was talking about Remington, Winchester, Browning etc regular semi auto hunting rifles. Not militry garands and military carbine's. Civilian rifles are not mil-spec and they work fine and last for years.

Fishbed77
October 17, 2012, 02:52 PM
What is the big thing about mil-spec ? Is your Remington semi auto mil-spec? Is your Winchester or and other brand of semi auto rifles mil-spec ?

I was talking about Remington, Winchester, Browning etc regular semi auto hunting rifles. Not militry garands and military carbine's. Civilian rifles are not mil-spec and they work fine and last for years.

None of those semi-automatic hunting rifles will stand up to the abuse that a Garand (or even a well-made AR-15) can endure, and still run reliably.

All that said, if I had the option of a relatively low-cost AR that used mostly commerical parts, and one that used mostly mil-spec parts (and cost the same money or less), I'd pick the mostly mil-spec AR all day long.

This is especially true when I walk into Wal-Mart and see a Windham priced at $999 and a Colt priced at $1059. For $50, it's a no-brainer.

Of course, there is a point when the pendulum tips in the other direction. There are high-priced rifles from Noveske and KAC that don't use all mil-spec parts - they use BETTER than mil-spec.

madcratebuilder
October 18, 2012, 06:42 AM
Of course, there is a point when the pendulum tips in the other direction. There are high-priced rifles from Noveske and KAC that don't use all mil-spec parts - they use BETTER than mil-spec.

OK, I'll bite, what's "better" than mil-spec? A NiB coated BCG?

Belve
October 18, 2012, 09:20 AM
Psa is the way to go great customer service fast shipping and good prices especially when they have sales

Fishbed77
October 18, 2012, 09:40 AM
OK, I'll bite, what's "better" than mil-spec? A NiB coated BCG?

It's all subjective, but there's clearly a huge market of guns and accessories out there that folks are willing to pay for that they feel improve upon the mil-spec stuff.

It's hard to argue that a Magpul stock with a friction lock and nice ergos, for example, doesn't improve upon the wobbly mil-spec carbine stock.

Palmetto-Pride
October 18, 2012, 10:45 AM
I was talking about Remington, Winchester, Browning etc regular semi auto hunting rifles. Not militry garands and military carbine's. Civilian rifles are not mil-spec and they work fine and last for years.

You are comparing apple and oranges here. Those semi auto hunting rifles probably don't get shot 30 times a year after they are sighted in and most ARs do that after one magazine. I always find it funny when people try to make there point by comparing two totally different things.:cool:

Bamashooter
October 18, 2012, 08:43 PM
Who out there knows of a company making parts for AR's that arent milspec or better in quality? Just curious if anyone can name companies specifically.

Justice06RR
October 19, 2012, 05:33 AM
Its really a toss-up between the 2. PSA has excellent products but its hit-or-miss with their customer service, although mostly good IF you get lucky.

here's a thread on PSA
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=503373

madcratebuilder
October 19, 2012, 06:54 AM
Who out there knows of a company making parts for AR's that arent milspec or better in quality? Just curious if anyone can name companies specifically.

The problem is getting the TDP from Colt. Parts of the TDP have been made available. The spec for barrels, bolts, bolt carriers, RE's uppers and lowers are known.

Companies that do not use mil-spec, a incomplete list, DPMS, Bush Master, S&W, Ruger, Windham and many others. No 4150 steel barrels, no C158 bolts, no HPT-MPI. Does it make a difference to 99%+ of shooters. NO.

I do prefer to have a mil-spec BCG and RE, I'm good with stainless or 4140 barrels.



It's all subjective, but there's clearly a huge market of guns and accessories out there that folks are willing to pay for that they feel improve upon the mil-spec stuff.

It's hard to argue that a Magpul stock with a friction lock and nice ergos, for example, doesn't improve upon the wobbly mil-spec carb

Agreed, aftermarket stocks and hand guards offer the end user much more versatility.

dos0711
October 19, 2012, 08:08 AM
4150 on the barrel

https://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=84343&d=1350652110

The only thing I fault is the twist rate...but it's not a deal breaker for me.

bigdaddy123
October 19, 2012, 06:52 PM
I've had my PSA m4 for 2 months.Excellent finish,performs flawlessly.Has cycled every kind of ammo I've put in it.Black Hills 68 gr.HMHP are extremely accurate.Will probably get a Windham also.Gotta support these small U.S. companies.

customaquatics
October 19, 2012, 07:00 PM
for the same price i would do well i did the PSA. i mean the Windam can't shoot heavier grain rounds as well as the PSA will but the bad thing is the FN barrels are kinda expensive. i seen em going as high as $300 but i guess you can't beat quality get the PSA its got the or mine came with the thick M-16 full auto bolt carrier too.