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hermanpj
October 4, 2012, 06:37 PM
Just unboxed my M1A Loaded today. Thats the standard, w a trigger job, plus national match medium barrell, nat'l match suppressor, and nat'l match sights minus the hooded aperture on the rear.

Mine is walnut stock. Have leather sling and leather cheekpiece on order from Springfield. Mounted Leupold 4 - 12 scope on a Springfield mount (the kind that replaced the stripper clip guide).

Shot well at the range, now trying to clean.

Unable to remove the gas plug w significant force applied. Springfield said shooting it would help as the heat cycle would help liberate the threads. However, still cannot get it off. Any ideas?

thanks in advance:)

FrosSsT
October 4, 2012, 07:01 PM
Are you using a gas cylinder wrench? The gas plugs on the M1A can be TIGHT. You will more than likely need to man handle it to get it off. Heat it up with a heat gun first it should help. After its off throw some break free on it before you put it back on

geetarman
October 4, 2012, 08:51 PM
^^^^^^ Yep.

The first time I took mine off, it took two men and a boy with a 12 foot breaker bar to break it loose.

It is really on there.

Once you get it off, put some anti seize on it when you reinstall it and you are good to go.

kraigwy
October 4, 2012, 09:08 PM
If you just bought it, and just took it to the range,

YOU DON'T NEED TO TAKE IT OUT in the first place.

Lock the bolt/operating rod to the rear. Turn the rifle upside down and back again. You should hear the gas piston go back and forth.

It that's the case leave it alone and pay attention the SA's instructions.

p loader
October 4, 2012, 09:24 PM
^^ agreed.

I don't shoot my M1A that much but have probably 500 rounds through it, haven't take the gas plug out yet.

Leave it alone!

hermanpj
October 4, 2012, 09:50 PM
Thanks for fast reply. I've tried a 3 foot breaker bar. I've even tried an impact wrench. Heat cycle, even while still very hot from shooting, per Springfield's instructions did nothing. I will try a heat gun, differntial heat and cooling, and perhaps giving the plug some taps with a rubber mallet. i was wondering if penetrating oil might work or does it damage parkerized finish?

Any other ideas on how to free it without applying undue torque to the barrel or otherwise risking damaging the gun>

As to following Springfield's instructions: I tried. I was on the phone with nice but vapid lady who answers the customer service line. She spoke to a technician. Wouldnt let me talk with them. Their only suggestion was shoot the gun and it will come off through the applcation of massive amount of force. Literally those were the words used.

Other question: the manual and 1963 technical manual are a little vague on how you use the cleaning rod without dis-assembling the rifle. Was it originally designed that the weapon would be cleaned by inserting the cleaning rod from the muzzle? I am using a bore snake to clean it as it would seem like inserting cleaning rod at muzzle end would affect accuracy. Any light you can shed on the design of original cleaning rod and original barrel cleaning procedure?

to those who advise leaving it alone. what do you plan to do when it stops working?

kraigwy
October 4, 2012, 10:14 PM
the manual and 1963 technical manual are a little vague on how you use the cleaning rod without dis-assembling the rifle. Was it originally designed that the weapon would be cleaned by inserting the cleaning rod from the muzzle?

Yeap:

Get a one piece stainless cleaning rod. Get a empty 12 gage shotgun shell.

Punch out the primer of the shell, drill the primer pocket to fit the cleaning rod.

Slide the empty shell over the flash hider. Now you got a rod guy.

NEVER used jointed cleaning rods. That screws up muzzles.
Never us coated cleaning rods, carbon gets imbedded in the coating and you effectively now have a file you're running in and out your barrel.

I don't like bore snakes for the same reason I don't like the coated cleaning rod. The bore snake also gets full of carbon and other crap I don't want in my barrel.

You'll ruin a M14/M1A a lot quicker with improper cleaning then you will by no cleaning.

Again, I'd recommend shooting your guy 5-600 rounds then worry about getting the gas plug out. I betcha it will come out easier then.

Beats twisting the gas system on the barrel.

Just basing this on my experience using the M14/M1A for over 45 years, 35 of that in heavy competiton. Which includes maintaining about two dozen M14s belonging to my AK NG Rifle Team.

misterE
October 4, 2012, 11:10 PM
I remember that I had to apply so much force to get mine off the first time, I thought I was definitely going to break something. But, I was following springfield's directions, and I knew the thing had to come off. I had to tap the wrench with a hammer to get mine off.

Definitely no reason to clean it yet though, like has been said as long as your piston moves freely.

If you do take it off, you should shim the gas cylinder for sure. This is the only reason I took mine apart to begin with, and it increased accuracy about 30% on mine. The gas system is not unitized on a "loaded" and shimming it (which is a very cheap and easy DIY project) helps with accuracy on most rifles. You can look it up on YouTube for directions or go over to the m14 forum.

Be warned- these rifles are addictive. I just bought another one that was in our local paper for too cheap to pass up. It's a NM M1a and the guy had bought every accessory there was at the time I believe, one of which was a bore guide for a cleaning rod that slips into the muzzle. I had previously been following Kraigs advice about the shotgun shell. Btw, he knows what he's talking about and always offers solid advice on the m1a platform.

geetarman
October 5, 2012, 02:33 AM
I had previously been following Kraigs advice about the shotgun shell. Btw, he knows what he's talking about and always offers solid advice on the m1a platform.

Indeed he does.

hermanpj
October 5, 2012, 11:11 AM
Kraig, MisterE, everybody - thanks so much!

I hope I didnt come off disrespectful in my frustration. Yall are awesome. I will make that 12 ga. guide then go get a single piece, non coated cleaning rod!

I'm also going to look into shimming the gas piston/tube on Youtube - once the plug is easier to remove. Can the gas tube be replaced simply w a national match gas tube and piston? or do we start talking about a ton of other parts like op rod and custom gun smithing at that point?

So maybe after 5-600 rounds enough heat and cooling cycles will have occurred that the plug will loosen? I'll come back for advice then if it doesn't.

Sincerely yall, thanks.:)

Attached photo of my M1A Loaded.

84072

kraigwy
October 5, 2012, 11:26 AM
Now that looks like a M1A is suppose to look. Except I don't use scopes much.

Here's mine, been shooting it since 1977.

http://photos.imageevent.com/kraigwy/posting/websize/M1A%20_1_.jpg

Mobuck
October 5, 2012, 11:43 AM
Why do people feel the need to completely disassemble a firearm after each use? Do you suppose they disassemble their vehicle's engine every 5000 miles, also? From reading forums, I've noticed a lot more firearms have been damaged by over zealous attempts to "clean" them than from actually shooting.
I push a couple of patches through the bore now and then but I can't remember when I've torn a gas system apart. The main reason I may do a complete tear down(other than corrosive ammo) is getting a rifle soaked while hunting. The only rifle I've seen actually rust was taken out in a snowstorm and then brought inside but not thoroughly dried before going into the case for transport home.

hermanpj
October 5, 2012, 02:01 PM
Mobuck. New gun. Im not obsessive about teardown. Just my responsibility to ensure its in working order before using it. Additionally in SA manual shipped w gun gaspiston is listed specifically as the Only item requiring disassembly for normal maintenance. So id hardly call my interest in taking the gas plug off unwarranted.

Thanks for great advice kraig. Very sweet looking rifle!

FrosSsT
October 5, 2012, 04:17 PM
Get a one piece stainless cleaning rod. Get a empty 12 gage shotgun shell.

Punch out the primer of the shell, drill the primer pocket to fit the cleaning rod.

Slide the empty shell over the flash hider. Now you got a rod guy.

And to think i bought a bore guide....

Slamfire
October 5, 2012, 06:21 PM
If you just bought it, and just took it to the range,

YOU DON'T NEED TO TAKE IT OUT in the first place.

Lock the bolt/operating rod to the rear. Turn the rifle upside down and back again. You should hear the gas piston go back and forth.
For a new rifle I agree with this, however,

^^ agreed.

I don't shoot my M1A that much but have probably 500 rounds through it, haven't take the gas plug out yet.

Leave it alone!

I consider this a poor example.

I am a fastidious cleaner of my guns. There I was in my Hut at Camp Perry, cleaning my M1a after a day of hard shooting, and a shooting bud comes in with his State Association M1a. His rifle was malfunctioning and he wanted to know why. I had my gas cylinder wrench and gas cylinder lock screw tool, and it took a heck of a yank to get his gas cylinder lock crew to break. He informed me he had been told never to clean his gas system. When the cylinder was in my hand, I was very surprised to see deep rust pits. The cylinder was also full of crusty powder residue. That was why he was having malfunctions; the timing of the rifle was off due to a plugged gas cylinder. Cleaning everything out, put “Anti Seize” on the gas cylinder lock threads and he was happy.

The next day my 200 yard RF group was awful, because I had only hand tightened my gas cylinder lock screw the day before and it unscrewed. :( I had been interrupted just before using the wrench in my hut, forgot about tightening the thing in the excitement of fixing my Bud’s rifle. I don’t multi task worth a flip. His rifle ran fine.

You do need to take the gas cylinder out and clean it out, I don't know how long you can avoid this, because I clean out my gas cylinder after each 88 round match. But I do know, if you push it out too far, you will have problems.

kraigwy
October 5, 2012, 07:21 PM
Slamfire, you are talking about two extreme cases,

The first had to be more then 500 rounds. The second will case the gas plug not to seat and STAY.

Like I said.

Lock the bolt/op rod back. Turn the rifle upside down and back a few times. It the gas piston slides back and forth leave it alone. It it sounds/feels slugish, clean it.

USMCGrunt
October 5, 2012, 08:39 PM
Well, the combo tool tends to work pretty well on my rifles but you may need to go with a 7/16" box end wrench if you really need the torque. I also use a gas cylinder wrench as well to prevent any unnecessary torquing on the barrel. Once you do get it off, you might want to use a bit of anti-sieze grease on the threads to prevent this problem from happening again. Good luck. :)

misterE
October 6, 2012, 08:17 AM
That is one great looking M1A Herman!

My loaded is the stainless barrel, composite stock version. I really wanted traditional walnut/blued, but got a good deal on this one used. Then I found that NM a few weeks ago in wood/blued and I'm in hog heaven.

Btw, how does it shoot? Have you shot for groups yet? Tried out the irons? I found the M1a's irons to be the most user friendly I've e er used on a rifle.

I thought of the 2 other things I did to my "loaded" that you may also want to try : replaced the op rod spring guide with national match spring guide from Sadlak ($40). Don't know if this improved accuracy, but it just makes sense to have that spring maintain a uniform shape during operation. The other thing was to shim the sides of the receiver with card stock which Kraig suggested. This was a free improvement in stock to receiver fit and can't help but improve accuracy.

kraigwy
October 6, 2012, 08:29 AM
replaced the op rod spring guide with national match spring guide from Sadlak ($40). Don't know if this improved accuracy,

It does improve accuracy.

hermanpj
October 12, 2012, 03:32 PM
Sorry took me a while to reply as I was on a cub scout campout and then a hunting trip.

I'm interested in the card stock idea. Kind of like a poor mans glass bedding? is there a recommended procedure for creating the template for these?

I actually read some place about sheet metal bedding in lieu of glass bedding and, having an automotive shop in my garage, i was thinking about using my sheet metal brake to make some very thin shims to tighten up fit. Since its a new gun its really pretty tight anyway, but thinking about this down the line. Has anyone made metal shims/bedding like this?

Have already found the gas tube shims at brownells, have a one piece stainless cleaning rod picked out, and a rod guide (i also saves a 12 ga hull from my dove hunting trip... as a temporary rod guide). Will look into getting the national match spring guide. Also i have a gas tube wrench picked out for when my gun gets to where it needs the gas piston cleaned.

In terms of how it shoots, has only been to range once. Focus was on inital alignment of scope. It shot bullseye at 50 yards. Moved to 100 yards, and frankly the gun just shoots better than i do. I did have some nice groups a couple times, but I'm too used to 5.56 w virtually no recoil, and my AR has a 3 pound trigger... so between my newness to the platform, the higher recoil, the slightly heavier trigger, and really being more focused on trying to get it sighted in, i didn't really shoot it that well.

On another note, i did give the stock another drink of boiled linseed oil and after wiping of the excess the richness of the walnut is really coming out. I am also strongly considering getting the SA walnut handguard ( I do not mind the Garand look).

kraigwy
October 12, 2012, 04:09 PM
I'm interested in the card stock idea.

Forget the sheet metal ideal, Use file folders. The bage kind.

Remove the action from the stock. You'll see the indentations on the stock where the action fit.

One on each side of the mag well, and the horse shoe shape to the rear. Cut the folder material to fit. Use two layers.

Now, where the trigger group snapes in, you'll find two places (one on each side), Cut pieces to fit this spot. Use two layers.

When you put the trigger guard back in you should really have to force it to snap it in.

Now you have it bedded, Leave it alone. It should last quite a while.

Now there should be a gap where the gas system fits the stock. You'll have to squeese the stock toward the barrel to see this. Take a q-tip or something and force grease into that space. It should now be free floated except for the grease.

You don't need to take the action out of the stock to clean and lube it. Look where the op guide rides on the chamber, grease it. Grease the rails where the bolt slides back and forth. Grease the op rod where the bolt rides. Force as much grease as you can in the roller part of the bolt.

Don't over clean the gun. More guns are ruined by over cleaning then shooting dirty.

Only clean the piston when it sluggish slidding back and forth. Use the shot shell rod guide and stainless one piece rod sparingly in cleaning the barrel.

Good shooting.

hermanpj
October 12, 2012, 05:21 PM
great stuff - thanks!

madcratebuilder
October 13, 2012, 07:38 AM
Now there should be a gap where the gas system fits the stock. You'll have to squeese the stock toward the barrel to see this. Take a q-tip or something and force grease into that space. It should now be free floated except for the grease.

THIS!

Along with the card stock this is one of the more important accuracy tricks for the M1A. Make sure the metal contact points are smooth and lubed. I use a dab of moly assemble lube.

If you want a good DIY project you can make a NM spring guide out of a piece of drill rod. That is how the originals were made.

hermanpj
October 15, 2012, 04:04 PM
when you are talking about the metal contact points, do you mean the contact points of the gas system, e.g. the surface where the gas system lock contacts the gas cylinder?

30Cal
October 15, 2012, 04:59 PM
Use penetrating oil. I'd hold off on messing with the stock fit until you figure out how well it shoots with match ammo. You start sliding loose stuff in under the rails and now you have to get it all back in the same arrangement everytime, and it may take longer to settle in after it's been taken out of the stock.

misterE
October 15, 2012, 06:13 PM
Ditto everything Kraig posted.

Herman - he's referring to the Stock ferrule to Barrel band contact point (correct me if I'm wrong Kraig). You should definitely grease between this contact point. It allows the barrel to stock contact to return to the same place every time more consistently.

hermanpj
October 15, 2012, 09:13 PM
Thanks!

4EVERM-14
October 16, 2012, 07:59 PM
kraigwy's advice is spot on. I've been behind the trigger of an M1A since 1981. I wish could add something that he missed. Only thing I can think of is that I filled the holes for the cleaning kit in the stock with lead shot. It helps tame the recoil. The '14' is a great gun it's happiest when it's on the line doing the job it knows best.

MJ1
October 17, 2012, 01:36 PM
I never found one that tight. I had a set of cut out aluminum jaws in my little arms room that fit in a vise to hold bbl and gas cylider and a whack with my nylon lead filled mallet on the gas plug/rod handle would do it. Even in the rainy season our FM's said just finger tight and no lube on the plug and check it often. Possibly new made plugs have courser/rougher cut threads. You do have the tool? Good luck.

..MJ..

hermanpj
October 19, 2012, 12:10 AM
OK, second trip to the range today, 60 more rounds through my M1A Loaded.

First here's what I've done since first trip to the range, and in light of all the great advice I got.

1. I made the 12 ga. rod guide, and got a stainless steel cleaning rod
2. The gas plug came off - this time with very little effort. No reason. Can't explain it. OK. I cleaned it throughly and applied a small amount of anti-seeze to the threads. The gas piston was clean, didn't do anything to it but wipe it on a gun cleaning cloth and put it back in. put the plug back on. I did note that my gas piston lock does not begin to tighten up until AFTER it should be locked at the 12 O'Clock postion - so shims to be ordered, however question on that below under 'Plans'
3. I put the Springfield walnut handguard and leather cheekpiece on. Explatives deleted. This is one fine looking rifle. care taken to ensure there is a gap between handgard and stock all the way around.
4. I put a Harris bipod mount in the stock (had to trim the metal to fit the cut out in the stock and cut down the swivel screw so that there would be no contact with the gas system, then I primer coated all the bare metal on those pieces with high temp paint)
5. Bought a bench rest to assist sighting it in. Went cheap on the bench rest. Regretting it.
6. Tried the card stock bedding - more on that below
7. Applied grease between the stock ferrule and front barrel band as advised

Card Stock Bedding
I was unable to complete this. I cut strips of bedding from manila file folders and glued 2 identical strips together to form bedding strips. I made strips for
- between receiver and stock (to go under the receiver right and left side)
- between receiver and stock at horseshoe / rear of receiver
- between receiver and stock INSDE the stock (vertical pieces to go between the wood of the stock and the metal of the veritcal lug bars)
- between the trigger and stock - where the horizontal flat metal of the trigger assembly meets the bottom of the stock - small "L" shapes in mirror images of each other.

I could not get the trigger guard to close up with the card stock in place. so i started working my way backwards. ultimately it would not close it ANY of the card stock was in place. I will try again to bed it with cards that are only 1 layer thick.

How it Shot Today - all shooting at the Elm Fork Range, Irving, TX, 100 yard range, all shooting from the sitting position:-20 rounds of Remmington 150 Grain CoreLokt PSP: these were the best shooting of the day, which supprised me given they were the cheapies I intended to use to help me tune the sights. All 20 shots with bench rest:
- 10 shots spent sight tuning, including 3 off the paper ( told you i'm not a very good shot)
- 1 group: 3 shots in 7/8" contiguous
- 1 flier apprx 1" separation from above group
- 1 group: 2 shots in 3/4" not contiguous
- 1 group: 4 shots in 3/4" by 3/4" contiguous goup

The remaining 40 shots were with Federal 168 Grain Sierra Matchking BTHP
-Next 31 shots were disappointing. I'd love opinions here, but I was expecting to be KILLING it with these rounds. Maybe they were too hot for the gun? Recoil may have been heavier, and I noticed my self scewing around with the rest quite a bit. Best shooting in these 31 rounds was 3 rounds in a 1 inch by 3/4" non-contiguous group. typical grouping was 4-5 rounds in a 2 inch group.

For the last 9 shots, I abandoned the benchrest and attached bipod. Tightened the rifle sling, wrapped it around left arm, then brought my left hand back until the sling was taut. 3 groups
-3 shots in 3/4" by 1/2" contiguous goup
-2 shots in a 3/4"group
-4 shots in 1 1/2" by 1" group

Any theories why the Federal Premium seemingly shot worse?

Plans
1. To address the gas system lock up, I will install shim(s). However, as an alternative, if I have the $115 bucks laying around, the question is, is it worth it to go ahead and upgrade to the National Match unitized gas cylinder+front barrel band?
2. Going on the theory that I was fortunate to get an M1A loaded with very tight action, I'm going to re-make the card stock bedding, this time 1 layer thick. Long term, I may get it glass bedded, but for now, going to try the card stock again. Did it sound like i was doing it right? would me showing pictures help?
3. Going to get a Sadlak national match Op Rod Spring Guide
4. Considering getting a Sadlak TiN coated National Match Gas Piston

Now you reading this are wondering, heck if you wanted a National Match gun, why didnt' you just buy it that way. :-)

kraigwy
October 19, 2012, 05:24 PM
For the last 9 shots, I abandoned the benchrest and attached bipod. Tightened the rifle sling, wrapped it around left arm, then brought my left hand back until the sling was taut.

Good, now toss the bipod. Let the sling do the work.

I cleaned it throughly and applied a small amount of anti-seeze to the threads.

Take the gas plug out and clean that crap off. Its not needed, its not suppose to be applied.

I noticed my self scewing around with the rest quite a bit

Until you stop flopping around, don't change any thing with the gun or ammo.

Federal 168 Match was made for the M14/M1A. Its not too hot and should work. Might want to find out if you're barrel might be a 4 grove barrel. They don't like 168s. They were made for the 174 grn Mil Match bullet. I had to issue two guns to my NG Team members, one with the 4 grove, for M118 and one with the 6 grove barrel for the M852 (168 gr SMK).

The Fed match is the same as the M852 Match.

I'm still not getting this shim business, I"ve been shooting M14/M1As since 1966 and never heard of having to shim the gas system.

As to the upper hand guard. There should be clearance. It shouldn't touch the stock at all.

I believe one of the problems (in shooting) might be improper cheek weld.

Try tossing the scope and cheek pad until you learn to shoot consistent with irons. Its easier to get a constant cheek weld.

The definition of Accuracy is Consistency.

MJ1
October 19, 2012, 05:57 PM
Put the J.C. Whitney catalog down and shoot the thing as is till you know it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/5090012zz_zps58aea1a8.jpg

hermanpj
October 19, 2012, 09:23 PM
thanks guys

The shim thing is to make the gas system lock tight by the time it gets aligned to accept the gas plug. mine is pretty loose and will actually turn quite a bit past where it should be locked up. im not sure that matters, you guys may tell me it doesnt, and I'd be good w that. what i've read is it should be tight, but if yall are shooting great w it more loose like mine, just let me know.

On the barrell, Springfield M1A Loaded model MA9222 has a 22" 6 Groove 1:11 right hand twist national match medium weight premium air gauged barrell (Springfield's description), so KraigWY I guess it should be a good match up with the Federal Premium Match 168 grain ammunition.

Hand guard does have clearance all the way around so I'm good there. I was very careful to make sure it did not interfere with the stock when trying to mate the receiver, stock and trigger group.

I hear you on not changing the gun or ammo until I stop changing my shooting postion and technique. I would love input though on whether the national match gas system is considered by you a worthwhile investment compared to the GI gas system. I saw your opinion KraigWY that the National Match Op Rod Spring Guide is worth it. Don't worry, I'm not sitting here with the Brownell's website pulled up just itching to drop hundreds of dollars into this gun without first getting the most from it - I am just interested in accuracy, and you guys seem to be giving good advice to get me on track.

KraigWY I would definitely do the shooting with irons only, and agree w you it would be a good way to really get to know the gun. A couple challenges:
1. there is no range here that allows shooting iron sights at 100 yards or more
2. my eyesight aint great at 100 yards even with vision correction

So what I'll do is keep the scope on but shoot with the irons (at 100 yards the irons are not interefered with by the sight mount) and see how i do. The Range Officer will not know the difference. I will ditch the bipod next trip and see how i do w just the sling though.

I'd like to follow your advice on the card bedding. I'll try to post photos of what I made and you can tell me if i did it right or mis-interpreted.

Finally, I'd appreciate some input on the theoretical capability of the gun. Not talking about how good I personally can expect to shoot it, today or even next year, but rather, how good should it be able to shoot with the right ammo, and with someone like you guys shooting it... how good can it shoot given its not glass bedded. that would set a good upper limit for me on expectations. what i mean is, if the gun isn't capable of stacking every round in a dime size hole, fine, i'm not that good a shooter (at least not right now) anyway. if 4-5 rounds in a 3/4" contiguous group at 100 yards is about as good as it gets if the gun is not glass bedded, I'd just like to know it so i can be educated on what its limits are.

Will say it again, i really appreciate your input and candor here as yall are the experts and I am the grasshopper here.

misterE
October 20, 2012, 08:35 PM
Herman, sounds like you've got a shooter. My loaded prefers Remington 150 trainers too. Except for fgmm 168's. Anything sub moa from a semi automatic battle rifle is outstanding in my opinion. Sounds like you had some sub moa groups already. Best my "loaded" has done was 5/8 and that was just a 3 shot group one time. More often it 3/4 to 1 1/4. This is entirely acceptable to me. My newly acquired NM will shoot more like 1/2 to 1 inch groups consistently.

I put the gas shims on at the recommendation of some of the guys over at the M14 forum and what I did for me is shrink the vertical size of my groups by about 30%. Now Kraig is definitely the guru on these rifles, but it can't hurt anything and it's cheap and easy to do. I would definitely do this before I spent the money on a unitized system.

The only place I put the card stock was on the sides of the receiver with just a little bit folded out over the top edge to the stock. Just used one layer. This really seemed to tighten everything up ; receiver to stock, and trigger group lockup got a lot tighter.

I too agree with shooting the irons. It's much easier to get a good cheek weld and you will be amazed at what you can hit with those irons. By far the best irons I've ever had on a rifle. Can you shoot at 50 yards with irons at your range?

All in all, sounds like you have a beautiful shooter. Enjoy!

misterE
October 20, 2012, 08:39 PM
Also Herman, it sounds like you enjoy tinkering with your rifle as much as I do. I never ever messed with a gun as much as I did when I got that first M1A. It is just fun to work on isn't it.

madcratebuilder
October 21, 2012, 06:07 AM
Unitizing the gas cylinder, either a screw and glue or welding, and shimming when reinstalled well do more for accuracy than about any other mod.

Article on shimming,
http://m14forum.com/reference/89156-shimming-gas-cylinder-gas-port-alignment-how.html



On the barrell, Springfield M1A Loaded model MA9222 has a 22" 6 Groove 1:11 right hand twist national match medium weight premium air gauged barrell (Springfield's description), so KraigWY I guess it should be a good match up with the Federal Premium Match 168 grain ammunition.

Wilson six groove that SAI has been using for years. Those 3/4" groups are good from your rifle.

hermanpj
October 21, 2012, 05:47 PM
Mister E thanks a bunch for clarifying how you applied the card stock - I'm going to give it another try today and then hopefully get out to the range next weekend and see how that does. I do like to tinker w my guns, but mainly have put tinkinering into the AR I built. On this one I am so appreciative to have this forum where you guys really know your stuff and can give guidance so that I only improve, not detract from what seems to be a very good rifle!

Yeah, they do have a 50 yard range where I go, but its really only for scope sight-in. Its got 1 lane and they don't let you loiter on it. They have a 'tactical' range but its typically full of LE personnel, or at the opposite extreme, dudes doing mag-dumps from their AKs and SKSs... however: there's this other place on the other side of Dallas which has about a 70 yard range that is an indoors, and is mostly where I shoot my AR and my pistols. I can shoot the iron sights there!

MadCrateBuilder (is that mad crate engines or what?) I'm definietly ordering the shims. Then depending on how it shoots over 10 or so sessions, and how I improve, etc., I'll probably move to the national match unitized gas system. At that time I'll also pick up a national match op rod spring guide.

I also met a gentleman last week at the range who is retired as a machinist and has been gunsmithing last 15 years or so. He mostly does complete custom mauser actioned rifles, but he said he's also glass bedded a few M1As with great results so perhaps in the spring (when my bank account has recovered!) I'll get him to glass bed it.

As Kraig had said, true accuracy is consistency, so I'll be trying to see if I can get it to do 3 shot 3/4" groups consistently. Im not after Super Match performance - but I'm intrigued how accurate I can make it perform out to 200 yards.

hermanpj
October 21, 2012, 10:50 PM
I did finally get card bedding complete. Will see how well it works next weekend!