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Microscope
September 30, 2012, 03:12 PM
Hello,

We have tougher laws here.
I can have an AR-15 for outdoors use, but it has to be 4 capacity max magazine.
I can apply for a restricted license, and could fire larger mags, but only at the firing range.
Please tell me if what I'm asking isn't accepted here, but let's say hypothetically, if TSHTF, and it's every man for himself, do you think I should go with the AR-15, as opposed to let's say a Remington 700 VT, both of which can do target shooting, pest control (what I do now) so I have the option to use bigger mags for self-defense, even militia scenario etc ?

Microgunner
September 30, 2012, 03:33 PM
If all you mags are (4) shot limited I think I'd rather have the Remington 700.
The AR15 will be much lighter than the 700 and if high cap mags are available then the AR15 would be a better SHTF rifle. IMO

Microscope
September 30, 2012, 03:37 PM
Well, thing is, I can have bigger mags, intended for the firing range, and if SHTF, they would be available to use (ie. law & order brake down, what you have is what you get, no chance to get to a firearms store, etc)
Whereas, if I had a Rem 700 VT, for example, I would not have that option.

tahunua001
September 30, 2012, 04:04 PM
alright first of all, SHTF threads are discouraged here so from now on we'll refer to this as a survival rifle thread, that is an acceptable topic on this forum. now that all that is out of the way, for my 2 cents.

I am a firm fan of the AR15 and greatly enjoy it as both a sporting/hunting rifle and as a personal/home defense weapon. if all that you are allowed are 4 round magazines then that may tip the balance in favor of more robust semi auto designs able to take long action cartridges but if you really think about it, there is no difference between an AR15 in canada and an AR15 in the United States other than the size of magazines. in your scenario of law and order dissolving, either A) your government can no longer handle the general public and are fighting against you, or you are being invaded by a foreign power and your government(and more than likely ours since we love to poke our noses in other peoples business) is trying to drive them off. since both of our militaries use nearly identical rifles, both would be able to exchange parts, ammo, and magazines with your AR15 so it would be relatively easy in the event of revolution to loot the bad guys for parts, ammo and those coveted 30 round magazines or in the event of invasion you would be able to work in tandem with your home military forces since you use the same caliber and virtually the same rifle with the exception of the trigger group and magazine capacity.

that's just how I see it in the event of a "survival situation". the ability to either use your enemies tools against them or the ability to augment national guard forces are both strong points in favor of the AR15 platform over more traditional styles of semi autos.

slicknickns
September 30, 2012, 06:09 PM
Is it a pistol grip thing; what about the Mini-14?

tulsamal
October 3, 2012, 09:53 AM
So how does the high capacity magazine thing get enforced? You make it sound like you are allowed to own them but only "fire them at the range?" So I think you are saying you could actually buy and store regular 20-30 round AR mags in a safe at home? Then if "some survival situation" happened and the laws were no longer being enforced, they would be available for your use? Is that what you are saying?

Gregg

No_Use_
October 3, 2012, 10:57 AM
Microscope is kinda wrong with what he is saying!

Here's the real deal with the law here in Canada:



-AR15 rifle should just be used at a range, only at a range... so if you shoot it outdoor it must be at a range... not anywhere else. You need the restricted firearm license to own one. Cannot hunt with AR, same as a pistol, only range use.

- Mag capacity is 5 round for semi-auto centerfire rifle, and if the mag is larger then that it has to be permanently pined to hold no more then 5! Otherwise this is a prohibited deveice and you could end up in jail. So 30 round mag end up 5/30 mag (hold only 5).

- There is a exception to that law... you can have LAR-15 mags that hold 10 rounds as it is made for pistol... and pistol law here is 10 round max (rimfire or centerfire). So it can legally be used in an AR (pistol or rifle model, makes no difference, if the mag was made to be used in a pistol).


S, if SHTF happen you just have to unpined the mags ;)

plouffedaddy
October 3, 2012, 11:47 AM
That's crazy that ya'll can have 14'' shotguns but are limited to 5 rounds in an AR. :rolleyes: But, at least your laws are more sensible than the Brits.

RedBowTies88
October 3, 2012, 12:03 PM
What about an SKS? with the 10 round fixed mag?

That skates through NJ's obscene laws becuase of the fixed magazine.

No_Use_
October 3, 2012, 12:24 PM
Plouffe: we also have some 8 and 12 inches barreled shotgun ;) ... and they are not restricted if the overal length of the gun is 26 inches or more (like the Grizzly shotgun, 8,5 inches barrel).

RedBow: SKS = 5 rounder as there is no 7.62x39 in "pistol" magazine that would fit the rifle or exist yet... in this case it would become 10 rounds max.

Microscope
October 3, 2012, 03:58 PM
Yes, so the idea would be, given a "survival scenario", that I would already have the pined mags and ammo, accessories, etc - which as someone else mentioned would be interchangeable with police/military/gangs etc as a weapon of choice. As someone mentioned, assuming it's right, I could have several 10 mag capacity and unpine them if needed.

It sucks, they should allow bigger mags and even full auto "for the range" if you have a restricted license. If there's never a survival scenario, which I obviously would prefer, then it would never "leave the range" so to speak, and where is the harm? Too bad converting the semi to full is such a huge pain in the ass (for the survival scenario only of course)

2damnold4this
October 3, 2012, 04:41 PM
Mag capacity is 5 round for semi-auto centerfire rifle


I take it there are different regulations for tube fed lever actions? Would the Op be legal with some sort of lever action carbine in a pistol caliber if he had more than five shots?

Art Eatman
October 3, 2012, 06:40 PM
Stick with what is and what is not legal for magazines, si' vous plait. No need for a bunch of editorializing about the sanity of the laws.

No_Use_
October 4, 2012, 03:24 AM
2damnold: yep, no limit on pump action, bolt or lever action!

like I said, semi-auto are limited to 5 for rifle and 10 for pistol caliber.

all my Pmags are pined but I know that if I need to... just le me a couple minutes, a drill and some hand tool and I'll end up with full capacity mags ;)