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militant
September 13, 2012, 09:13 AM
I am trading my AR for a M1 Garand today. I have never shot on before, but I am a fan of ww2 era weapons and the 30-06.
What are your guys thoughts on the M1?

Fishbed77
September 13, 2012, 10:03 AM
Well, it is the "the greatest single battle implement ever devised by man" according to George Patton.

Upsides are that they are reliable, incredibly well-made and durable, reasonably accurate, well-balanced, and parts are plentiful and easily found. The 30-06 is hard-hitting and the recoil is fairly soft in the Garand due to its weight and action. The aperture sights are great. The standard Garand two-stage trigger has a much better feel than a standard AR trigger. The "ping" sound is pure bliss. In owning one, you own a true piece of history - the rifle that saved the world.

Downsides are weight and that certain parts (op-rod for example) can be pricy. Getting maximum accuracy out of a Garand is a bit of a Black Art. Also, you have to really know what you are buying. There are umpteen different grades of Garand, and several different manufactureres, all with different values. 30-06 ammo is obviously more pricy than 5.56mm, and military surplus will dry up one day. For now, surplus Greek HXP M2 Ball is the best value out there.

If you are trading, you really need to know what you are getting, and it really depends on the AR-15 you are trading to know if you are getting a good deal. Many (most?) Garands are re-arsenaled mixmasters, but that is not necessairly a bad thing at all. Fortunately, there is a ton of info out there. The CMP Garand forum is a great place to start: http://forums.thecmp.org/forumdisplay.php?f=7

Otherwise, just get a Service Grade rifle from the CMP for $625. Don't be afraid of doing it via mail order, and don't be afraid of the paperwork. It took me less than an hour to fill it out, get it notorized (at a UPS store) and drop it in the mail.

This is what came to my doorstep 27 days later - a beautiful 1944 Springfield Armory Garand with a practically new 1954 Springfield barrel and a new CMP black walnut stock:


http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff427/Fishbed77/DSC_0128.jpg

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff427/Fishbed77/DSC_0122.jpg

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff427/Fishbed77/DSC_0125.jpg

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff427/Fishbed77/DSC_0050.jpg

militant
September 13, 2012, 10:44 AM
That's a beautiful rifle. I didn't pay much for my AR. It's no an all matching AR either. The m1 is a CAI brand. I haven't read the best reviews in them but I don't care. I have wanted one forever and don't personally care much for my AR. I don't have the money or I would love to go buy one like you did. I will be using it as a hinting rifle as well.

Fishbed77
September 13, 2012, 11:46 AM
I will be using it as a hunting rifle as well.


Keep in mind that you will need to change the gas plug on the Garand from the standard USGI plug to shoot most modern commercial hunting ammo. Otherwise, you will likely damage the op-rod, which is a very expensive part. Adjustable gas plugs are offered by Schuster and McCann, and there is a "ported" gas plug offered by Garand Gear. The prices range from about $20-$35.

It's also not recommended to shoot bullets heavier than 180 grains out of the Garand.

The m1 is a CAI brand

If I recall correctly, most of the CAI Garands were built with Danish (USGI)parts kits on a cast commercial (non-USGI) receiver. The cast reciever is not as strong as a forged original USGI receiver by Springfield, H&R, Winchester, or IHC. That said, the M14/M1A uses a cast reciever, so that's not necessarily the end of the world. The CAI rifles have no collector value, but can be decent shooters if everything is in spec. I strongly recommend that you take a close look at the barrel, bolt, inside of the reciever, trigger group, op-rod, etc. Also get a some sort of guarantee from who you are trading with.

Here are two threads I found with some good info on what to look for in the CAI Garands:

http://1919a4.com/showthread.php?32981-CAI-Garand-info-needed

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-303288.html

militant
September 13, 2012, 12:04 PM
Why does commercial hunting ammo damage the gun? I don't plan on using anything bigger then 150 grain.

Woody55
September 13, 2012, 12:28 PM
Aside from Patton's opinion (what else was he going to say?) I think that @Fishbed77 pretty well summarized things. I'll add that the M1 had wonderful iron sights.

I'd say enjoy what you love. Don't worry about the AR-15.

jimbob86
September 13, 2012, 12:49 PM
Keep in mind that you will need to change the gas plug on the Garand from the standard USGI plug to shoot most modern commercial hunting ammo. Otherwise, you will likely damage the op-rod, which is a very expensive part. Adjustable gas plugs are offered by Schuster and McCann, and there is a "ported" gas plug offered by Garand Gear. The prices range from about $20-$35.

It's also not recommended to shoot bullets heavier than 180 grains out of the Garand.


Why does commercial hunting ammo damage the gun? I don't plan on using anything bigger then 150 grain.

It's not about bullet weight, necessarily. Modern hunting ammo is loaded to make for maximum muzzle velocity in bolt action rifles. This means using slower powders than were commonly used in the mid 20th century. Pressure will be higher at the gas port than the Garand was designed for, possibly causing damage to the operating rod.

Another option (instead of buying a different gas plug/gas cut off) would be to had load your own ammo using loads/powders suited to the Garand, like H 4895,IMR 4895, BL-C2 and IMR 4064. My Hornady manual has a separate entry for loading for the Garand, while my Speer manual just marks a couple of loads as "suitable for gas operated semi-automatic match rifles".

Hand loading will be cheaper in the long run*, and allow you to load better ammo, tailored to your gun and application, than what somebody else is loading for the masses at the lowest cost possible.

*provided you, you know, actually shoot your gun.

rickyjames
September 13, 2012, 01:12 PM
i had one, good rifle and accurate. i sold it, i would rather have an m-14.

Fishbed77
September 13, 2012, 01:26 PM
Why does commercial hunting ammo damage the gun? I don't plan on using anything bigger then 150 grain.

I think jimbob summed up everything pretty well.

There are some commercial hunting loads that are probably Garand-safe. I recall a list floating around a while back on the CMP forum listing loads that were considered safe, and I think some Remington Core-Lokt 150-grain was on that list, but don't remember what else. I highly recommend doing your research on this, though.

Personally, I would just play it safe and get an adjustable gas plug. They are inexpensive, and take all of about 10 seconds to change out with a big flat-blade screwdriver.

militant
September 13, 2012, 01:36 PM
I am about to order one. It's 40.00. It looks like it needs adjusted. Are any preadjustes so I don't waste expensive ammo trying to dial it in?

jimbob86
September 13, 2012, 01:37 PM
Since you have a military match rifle, why not find a military match to shoot it in?

The guys that shoot those will have a wealth of knoledge to share. Dollars to doughnuts, one of them will have a hunting load recipe for ya.... they'll also be able to help with practical accuracy tips on shooting postions, sling use, etc. ......

militant
September 13, 2012, 02:36 PM
I will definitely look into it.

Marquezj16
September 13, 2012, 02:40 PM
I'd trade an AR for an M1. I'd probably end up buying one from the Alabama store.

Fishbed77
September 13, 2012, 02:56 PM
I am about to order one. It's 40.00. It looks like it needs adjusted. Are any preadjustes so I don't waste expensive ammo trying to dial it in?

I think the McCann plug comes with 4 or 5 replaceable jets that you switch out, so it's easier to go between different loads once you figure out what works best.

The Schuster plug is more infinitely adjustable. You start with it closed (the rifle won't cycle) then open it up a little at a time until the rifle cycles reliably. It shouldn't take more than 5-7 rounds, I would think.

The Garand Gear plug is the newest one out there. It is not adjustable, but is "hollowed-out" to increase the volume of the gas tube and lower pressure on the op-rod. It sounds very intriguing, and most reports so far are good, but being a newer product/concept, some folks are still skeptical.

Ignition Override
September 14, 2012, 02:03 AM
Even though my typical Enfield #4/Mk. 1s all have really good sights, my Service Grade Garand is much more accurate than I can shoot.

Even if most or all of your rifle's components were built after WW2 or after Korea, we can't ever forget the history associated with these. In my view, no AR could ever have the character of an M-1.

My wife and I were on an excellent tour of the E and F Company fox holes and skirmish sites around Bastogne Belgium in May '09. The tour guide is a Flemish guy who lives about two hours away, Mr. Reg Jans.
His really interesting first-hand, personal knowledge of some US veterans' experiences as I stood IN some of their fox holes is Exactly what motivated me to buy my first Garand.

militant
September 14, 2012, 07:28 AM
That's exactly why I traded my AR. I know mine isn't a wartime Springfeild, but it is different and I love rifles chambered in 30-06. I'll post pics later today. Also, the iron sights are amazing. Everything about this gun is different. On the other hand, I would have liked the M1A a little better. Those stripper clips hurt my fingers.

madcratebuilder
September 14, 2012, 08:49 AM
On the other hand, I would have liked the M1A a little better. Those stripper clips hurt my fingers.

The M1A shoots a little softer than the Garand being a 7.62 but over all feels similar, same sights, same trigger group. The detachable mag and capacity are the major differences. You can load the M1A using stripper clips in the rifle, or a spoon attached to the magazine.

Buy a case of HXP ammo.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/M1%20Garand/ammocan1.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/M1%20Garand/M1ammo01.jpg

A few boxes of match grade.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/M1%20Garand/NMammo01.jpg

Won't be long and you well be wanting to do a NM build with a Kreiger barrel.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/M1%20Garand/garand02.jpg

Shotgun693
September 14, 2012, 09:14 AM
The one and only drawback to a Garand, for some of us, is that the rifle was built 'one size fits all'. Unless you're shooting in some competition that requires a 100% stock gun then consider adding some length to the butt. I think that butt was made to fit a guy about 5'4" tall.

jimbob86
September 14, 2012, 09:17 AM
Better too short than too long.

militant
September 14, 2012, 09:55 AM
What is a CAI worth? Mine is in very good condition. Even the stock is. Rifling is very good as well. I didn't have a lot into my AR. Just wanted to get a ballpark figure. I looked on gunbroker and I couldn't find a CAI.

Fishbed77
September 14, 2012, 02:48 PM
Considering that Field Grade USGI Garands from the CMP start at $525, I don't see a good CAI being worth more than $400 or so, unless it has some rare parts or a very rare stock cartouche.

Big Shrek
September 16, 2012, 09:25 AM
Ooooh, not the CAI!!! If I was gonna trade an AR for an M1, it sure as heck wouldn't be for a CAI...
LOTS of issues...mostly due to out-of-spec problems...hrm...well, I'd call 'em if you have issues...they're reportedly good on warranty issues...

Fishbed is Spot On...get M-1's from the CMP!!!

Of course, you can get a DPMS AR15 from Walmart for $597 now...;)

militant
September 16, 2012, 09:49 PM
Well, I didn't want a "collectors" rifle, I wanted a shooter. I do and will not have a rifle that sits in my gun safe looking pretty. This rifle works flawless. I love it. I got 30 stripper clips for it. I plan on getting some military ball ammo for it next. As for the value, I didn't figure it was worth a whole lot. But i'd never sell it. Heck, I wouldn't even trade it for another top of the line AR.

samson 3
September 20, 2012, 12:30 AM
my buddy just bought a m1 numbers matching for 200.00 at the cr ia gun show.

militant
September 20, 2012, 07:45 AM
Somebody literally gave him that rifle then.

spacecoast
September 20, 2012, 12:20 PM
Well, it is the "the greatest single battle implement ever devised by man" according to George Patton.

Note that Patton passed away before the advent of AKs, ARs, etc. He might feel differently were he alive today.

militant
September 20, 2012, 11:06 PM
I would personally take my M1 over any ak or AR any day.