View Full Version : Iron Sights DPMS "Help"
September 4, 2012, 08:27 AM
I recently jumped into the AR world, and found myself over my head right off the bat,
I recently bought a M&P sport rifle with Iron's sights and have been reading this board and others trying to get a idea on how these work,
Then the other day I came home with a DPMS rifle with no sights on it, This rifle does not have a foward assist or dustcover, Price was great and just couldnt say no when I was there, It has A-15 on the side of it,
I think this one is some type of gas block from what Im reading, dont know the difference, But the choices are just endless with these rifles, Im sure down the road will put some type of optics on it but Im just getting my feet wet right now,
Im looking through a magazine and dont know which way to jump, just too many choices, since I have a very small background in Ar's I need some help in choosing some sights,
Im looking for Iron sights now, just so I can shoot the gun and continue to learn, Im finding out this is a rich mans rifle, lol, Im not rich....
Could you please reccomend something in the middle for quality and price that will work for the DPMS A-15,
also is there a web site that will answer basic questions for the begginer, I read the post on here and basically get lost with the easy stuff, Too the new guys comming in its hard to understand whats going on and keep up,
Questions like chrome barrel and chrome moly, As I said before I think DPMS is a gas type of gun, whats the difference between the two of them, easy stuff for most of you guys, but its like reading chinese to me,
As usual Im a day late and a dollar short, But Im trying to get up to speed on learning about the AR, I dont know anyone who has one, and local shops dont carry that much on extras just the gun itself, so its kinda like where the heck do you start,
Thank you for any Help Jim
September 4, 2012, 08:45 AM
Chrome-Moly is an alloy of steel. It has Chrome and Molybdenum as additive.
Chrome lined means they put a layer of hard chrome over the rifling. It improves corrosion and wear resistance.
You will need to determine the height of your front gas block to figure out what height front sight you will need. I would email DPMS with your serial number and tell them what you want to do and see what they recommend.
September 4, 2012, 10:17 AM
Thank you, Its a start in the right direction
September 4, 2012, 10:47 AM
another question, On my M&P rifle, It has a fixed front sight, would putting one of these on be worth it, Im worried about the front sight getting in the field of view and not be able to see the target,
I know there are more expensive ones on the market but this I can afford now, and the reviews were good
<a href="http://s405.photobucket.com/albums/pp138/Jim123_014/?action=view&current=551332.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp138/Jim123_014/551332.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
Just worried about looking at the front sight....I know basic question but Im just starting
September 4, 2012, 10:52 AM
Sorry the Pic didnt come up like I thought it would,
its a Leapers Red Dot UTG 38MM 1x4 MOA...
Good reviews, cheap price, Only the front sight question
September 4, 2012, 11:31 AM
Not sure exactly what optic you are referring to, but going off the assumption it is a standard reflex type red dot sight.
If you are using a red dot sight correctly, you won't notice the front sight at all.
Just like if you put your right had up in front of your right eye while leaving your left eye open, you "see through" your hand.
It works the same for red dot sights. You shouldn't close one eye and look through it like you do a traditional magnified optic.
Keep both eyes open and look at the target, then place dot on the target while keeping focus on the target.
The only thing that might be a problem is if you have bad uncorrected astigmatism. It can make the dot flare so bad that it becomes difficult to use.
It will help to use a lower 1/3 cowitness.
I personally like Primary Arms and they can also help you with what you should buy and what works with different setups. They are a great bunch of guys, I try to buy stuff from them 1st because they are so good to deal with.
September 4, 2012, 11:37 AM
Thanks for the answer Jim....
September 4, 2012, 11:56 AM
One other thing about red dot sights.
If you wear prescription glasses, you may see a double image of the red dot.
You CAN minimize the effect with an anti reflection coating on your glasses.
Part of the problem can be a reflection of the dot between the front and rear surface of your glasses.
I had the problem both with my Eotechs as well as my Aimpoint. My optometrist asked a few questions and suggested the anti glare coating on my glasses and while the problem did not go completely away, it did become less bothersome.
Another thing that will help is to use the minimum brightness you can for your shooting situation. Maximum brightness tends to make the led flare.
Hope this helps.
September 4, 2012, 12:46 PM
There are a lot of resources for ARs on the internet, but one you might find helpful is Brownells. They are a retailer that carries about anything you can imagine for a variety of firearms. They also have a specific section called “GUNTECH” that includes information on how to handle various task. They also have a site specific to building ARs that again has some helpful information.
September 5, 2012, 09:53 AM
Fixed front sight as seen through a PA red dot.
If you use a magnified optic the front sight well not be noticeable past 3X or so.
Personalty I would avoid Leapers, UTG, NcStar and other extra cheap Chinese optics. Been there, done that, don't waste your money. Primary Arms (https://www.primaryarms.com/default.asp) has a good line of low cost import red dots that have a warranty with great customer service. PA also has a great selection of buis sights.
September 5, 2012, 11:23 AM
Thanks for the link, Im not opposed to spending a few more dollars for something nice,
Just curious, some of the sights look like a window of some type and some look like a small hunting scope,
Is there any advantages to either one or are they about the same,
They seem to range from 20 to 500 on the cost if not more,
thanks for the help so far Jim
September 5, 2012, 02:31 PM
Just curious, why buy a DPMS when you already had the Sport? Anyway, I get the feeling you haven't had the Sport out to the range much. Time to go shooting! Get a few hundred rounds downrange then figure out what works, what doesn't. Sure ammo is expensive but .223 is cheap compared to other center fire rifle ammo.
Don't go too cheap on the RDS, the PA micro clone madcratebuilder pictured above is a good choice. I've had good luck with the Bushnell TRS-25 but wouldn't go any cheaper. As far as which sight to go with, we really can't answer that for you, you must compare and choose yourself. Just figure out what your uses will be first (and ask questions once you've ironed out your uses).
Anyway figure out the Sport's iron sights and how to use and cowitness the RDS before buying sights for the DPMS. Going cheap on things will cost you twice down the road.
September 5, 2012, 03:48 PM
Youre right about not owning the Sport very long, Gun store had a big sale on when I bought that one, Ive had the sport out to the range a few times
nothing compared to others but Im running as much as I can through it,
At middle age now and the eyes just arent what they used to be, thats why Ive been looking and asking questions on the Red dot sight's
I actually went to walmart to buy more ammo, 12 gauge and 40 is what I was after, and they had them on sale, I made the mistake of asking questions and holding the thing, lol
I only paid 597.00, I just couldnt say no for that price, So I had them throw it on top and out the door I went, Proud new owner of a DPMS, My wife isnt too happy right now but she's comming around...
Another reason I bought it was I like having two or more, must be the prepper in me, Just in case the world ends, lol, I now have two rifle's to use if the need be, one breaks keep on going type thing, Sounds crazy, I know but I sleep better at night...The safe is starting to buldge but thats ok, I can fit in another one already measured...lol
Thats why I have been asking so many questions on the AR, Its just a whole new world to me, I can keep up on Pistols and Bolt rifle's just fine, Im basically a new school kid just starting out
Im getting there, Just gonna take some time, I really do appreciate the feed back Ive gotten so far, for the last month Ive been buring the computer up, Its just hard to make a decision from a catalog you really dont know what your getting, I dont want to burn up the bank account and I really dont want junk either, Just a happy middle and Im good
September 5, 2012, 04:10 PM
Red dot and holographic sights should be thought of as single plane iron sights.
Instead of trying to line up 3 points in space (front sight, rear sight, and target) they only have to line up 2 (dot and target).
It will get you speed and it will help you shoot in low light compared to iron sights. But it won't help you see the target more clearly.
If you need to see the target better, a magnified optic will probably help you more than a red dot.
It will also help more if most of your shooting is going to consist of shooting it from the bench trying to shoot same hole groups.
While you can be accurate with a red dot, it's design really lends itself to both eyes open shooting quickly from unconventional positions at moving targets at a fairly close range in low light or in the dark.
You need to pick an optic that suits your needs rather than just going with what everyone else posts pictures of on the internet or what is advertised in a catalog.
September 5, 2012, 07:25 PM
Thank you Crow Hunter, Youre right...
Thanks for the Help Guys....Jim
September 5, 2012, 08:39 PM
I know what you mean about middle age eyesight. I'd recommend getting a new prescription if necessary. Maybe something that works well for iron sights, you don't need to focus on the rear aperture since you just look through it (so it can be fuzzy). The front sight should be a little more in focus and of course the best focus should be the target. Now with a red dot the dot might be fuzzy but again you want the target in focus. Hopefully a magnified scope shouldn't have those problems since it has built in adjustment.
You may want to go with an RDS on one AR and a magnified scope on the other. And the nice thing about flat top ARs, you can swap the optics from one to the other and expect the zero to be fairly close on the other AR. Rezeroing is likely if it's a permanent change.
I really would get out there and get familiar with the Sport's irons, then worry about sights for the DPMS. However for a nice cheap rear flip down it's hard to beat the Magpul MBUS. If you have a railed gas block you don't want the MBUS for the front since the gas block gets too hot for a plastic sight.
September 6, 2012, 05:53 AM
Thanks for the heads up Quentin, I never thought about the front end being to hot with plastic,
I also agree with what you said about just getting both of them, Ive been up all night thinking about this, Im really addicted to the new rifle's and want to learn as much as I can,
I guess I'll put a standard scope on the DPMS for now, and get a red dot for the M&P, I found a cheap red dot on Midway that has good reviews, If I dont like it, Im only out 50 bucks, I know everyone says dont do that,
I can always buy a more expensive one later if it works out
Its only 50 and not 500 and find out the same thing, I may not like that,
When using a hunting scope on the DPMS, I can always switch that over to one of my rifle's already in the safe, and go the Red dot way then for that rifle
Thank you Jim
September 6, 2012, 07:00 AM
If I dont like it, Im only out 50 bucks, I know everyone says dont do that
Don't do that...
I'd go with the recommended Primary Arms red dot. You need something that is going to manage the felt recoil of the .223. It's not much but a cheap red dot will likely not hold up long. Then, you have to buy again and that just adds $50 to the cost of whatever you end up getting. Budget red dots are out there but go with a quality brand. Primary Arms 30MM or Vortex are a couple that many use.
Also, slow down on the purchasing, get to know the sport and then you will know what you like and don't like.
The Optics Read version you go ends up costing much more than the cost of the gun because sights are not cheap. There is low end and there is high end when it comes to sights for an OR because of the hot gas block. Magpul MBUS is a good middle of the road sight but it's not an option because it's polymer. At least the front sight isn't.
I like the Matech rear sight with a Troy or YHM front.
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