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madhat
August 15, 2012, 04:42 PM
i've been doing quite a bit of research and i've come across a very interesting line of rifles with a special feature called BOSS, it's a adjustable choke for the tip of your barrel

has anyone ever dealt with one in person and has experience with it?

i was thinking of buying the Browning composite stainless steel stalker -BOSS for 1,200$ is there better for that price?

if so what and why :) thank you for the feed back

dahermit
August 15, 2012, 04:51 PM
it's a adjustable choke for the tip of your barrelAu contrair...it is not a "choke", it is a barrel weight adjustment system that supposedly lets a shooter "adjust" the vibrations in the barrel when it is fired to get better accuracy.

Beentown71
August 15, 2012, 04:51 PM
Not really a "choke". I have one in 22-250 and it is a shooter. Loud as hell though....unbearable loud.



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Beentown71
August 15, 2012, 04:55 PM
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc329/beentown71/1121091656-1.jpg

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madhat
August 15, 2012, 05:01 PM
is that a browning? looks great by the way

WillyKern69
August 15, 2012, 06:35 PM
I have a Browning Safari in 30.06 with a BOSS system. when it is "dialed in" I have 1' groups out at 200 yards. However, "dialing it in" is a task. The numbers must be zeroed on the sysytem then the number dial lock tited. If it is allowed to shift you have just wasted a lot of time and money. Then you have to pick the round. I use a remington accubond 30.06, 165 grain, with a Nosler tip and boat tail bullet. Buy a few boxes of your ammo. I would shoot three round groups. Ajust the setting either way(right or left), but get them to come together. Keep working untill you have it dialed in. The Boss is super loud and does help with the recoil. Once it is "dialed in" you will know the sweet spot. I only use one type of ammo, but you can keep a card of the setting if you change ammo. There was a time when some ammo had a starting number to set the Boss so it would take less time to dial in. If used properly it adds accuray that only the bench guys know.
WK

madhat
August 15, 2012, 06:56 PM
what would you say is best for desert plain hunting, i live in nevada and plan on hunting all northern american game

WillyKern69
August 15, 2012, 08:38 PM
If you are asking me, all I can say there are prolly other people here that can answer that question better. I do a lot of deer hunting so I wanted a medium caliber with a flat shooting bullet that won't break my arm or bank. I think 30.06 is a good all use bullet. You can use 185 grain or go light with a 155 grain. I quess it depends on what you shoot at. I feel I could take any animal in North America with a 30.06. Just my opinion before the hate posts appear.
WK

madhat
August 15, 2012, 10:16 PM
Thanks for the reply I guess I'm going for the browning composite stalker 30.06 stainless steel 849

Scorch
August 16, 2012, 12:12 AM
madhat-
I used to live in Reno and have hunted all across the west. A 30-06 will surely do everything just fine. May not shoot quite as flat as a 270 or 25-06, or have as much on-paper oomph as a 300 Magnum, but it will work just fine. And all that talk about needing a super-flat shooting rifle is based on a small percentage of the shots you will ever be given. Just to give you a perspective, I have hunted with a 7X57 on and off for years. My farthest shot while I lived in NV was about 400 yds, easily doable with a 30-06. So yes, some guys with their 257 Weatherbys or 7mm RUMs may shoot half a mile, but generally you can get closer without too much effort, and your shot will be more likely to hit what you are aiming for.

BTW, you can get the BOSS system without the ports on the BOSS, it will be a lot more pleasant to shoot.

Mike Irwin
August 16, 2012, 06:39 AM
I was working for American Rifleman when the BOSS system came out.

I thought it was a bunch of hooey when I first heard about it.

Then I got to shoot one, and was thoroughly convinced. The weight changes the harmonics of the barrel, and it's absolutely amazing how quickly you can dial in just about any load.

Keg
August 16, 2012, 08:56 AM
I have the BOSS system on a Model 70 Winchester FW..300 win mag....I have no problem with the noise..heck it's loud anyway....lol....But it is amazing how much recoil is reduced..and it is super accurate....I have the same gun..same caliber..no BOSS..also....So I have a good comparison....

madhat
August 16, 2012, 09:31 AM
how easy is it to dial in the boss? what if your boss is set for say 150 yards and a animal is 250 yards, how easy it it to dial in the boss to hit the target? what if you shoot? how far would it be off if the boss is dialed in wrong, sadly never using one i have to ask all these questions :)

Scorch
August 16, 2012, 10:57 AM
You don't dial it in for a specific range, you tune the harmonics of the barrel so it shoots the best possible group. Then, if you are sighted at say 200 yds and an animal pops up at 300, you know your load is shooting the tightest group possible and you can hit the animal at farther ranges because the groups are consistent and shot dispersion will be minimal.

math teacher
August 16, 2012, 01:22 PM
Scorch, I agree with your view on long range game shots. Madhat's choice of a 30-06 will serve him well up to moose. If he later chooses to take on brown bear, I suggest moving up to somthing like the 338. For now buy the 06.

Sandbar
August 16, 2012, 11:04 PM
The boss is as described above but it comes in two forms: (1) with muzzle brake which is pictured above -- and is the loud version), and (2) no muzzle brake. Either alters the vibrations, but the muzzle brake version affects the barrel rise and the felt recoil (a 30-06 round feels like a 243, for example)

Picher
August 17, 2012, 06:29 AM
I wouldn't buy the rifle with the BOSS, but I would with the plain barrel. I handload and the BOSS won't do anything I can't accomplish by careful handloading. Noise when hunting without ear protection is the primary concern, but tuning the rifle for each different bullet weight/manufacturer is a pain.

I've recently shot Browning bolt rifles without the BOSS and they shot very well indeed, even with factory ammo!

jgcoastie
August 17, 2012, 07:06 AM
I had a Browning BAR MkII Safari in .30/06 with BOSS (Ballistic Optimized Shooting System).

Once I had it dialed in to the different ammo types I used, it worked great. It is a good way to dial in your groups.

Here's a link to Browning's recommended starting point for tuning your BOSS to your ammo type.

http://www.browning.com/customerservice/qna/detail.asp?ID=109

cat9x
August 17, 2012, 07:52 AM
My primary hunting rifle for the past 6 years has been a MKII BAR in .270win w/ BOSS. Let me first say this Browning is very accurate, up there with bolt guns. 5/8"-7/8" groups at 100 yards consistently year after year.

As others have indicated, yes the ported BOSS does add muzzle blast however the advantage in recoil reduction and faster followup shots outweighs that (at least for me). I have tried a few setting on the Boss system. The first of which was the factory recommended "sweet spot" for the brand and bullet weight of my chosen cartridge. Groups were mediocre with this setting. Interestingly enough the best groups I get, with my chosen cartridge, is setting the BOSS to "0" and the micro-adjustment to "2".

Anyways, that's my personal experience with the Boss. I love the reduced recoil and if I'm honest, I think it looks pretty cool too :D

saands
August 18, 2012, 03:59 AM
I built a Mauser in 243 several years ago and I did a fair bit of research (patent office is a good place to get Browning's engineers version of the story) on the BOSS and built myself a non-brake version. Contrary to what some might tell you, it CAN do things that you can't do with just careful reloading. For example, it allows you to make your loads run as close to maximum for your rifle as is safe and then lets you tune the rifle so THOSE loads are also the best shooters ... sometimes you can get lucky and have the max loads be what your rifle likes without a BOSS, but it happens every time with a BOSS. Prairie dog sized targets at 300+ yds are non-issue for that 243.

All that being said, I wouldn't get the one with the brake for the hearing issues that accompany it ... but the non-ported versions are winners.

Saands

natman
August 18, 2012, 05:32 AM
It's not a choke, it's called a "tuner". It allows you to match the way the barrel vibrates to a given load, rather than changing to load to match the way barrel vibrates.

It works well, although there is a fair amount of setup for a given load. So it makes sense IF you plan to use one specific load in the rifle. You'll shoot up a fair amount of ammo if you change around a lot.

Most BOSS rifles come with a muzzle brake weight, which has the advantages (reduced recoil) and disadvantages (hellacious noise) of any muzzle break. Browning does sell the a non-muzzle brake weight as the CR version.

Joe Chicago
October 8, 2012, 12:14 PM
Could one not achieve the same goal - reduce the harmonic vibration and improve accuracy - by using a barrel de-resonator? You could avoid the increased report caused by the Boss system.

http://reviews.cabelas.com/8815/227667/sims-limbsaver-barrel-de-resonator-reviews/reviews.htm?page=2

natman
October 8, 2012, 03:49 PM
The goal isn't really to reduce the vibration, but rather match the vibration to the barrel/load. As noted above, you can get a non-muzzle break version of the BOSS weight that won't increase noise.

Magnum Wheel Man
October 8, 2012, 04:14 PM
these guys have pretty much summed it up... I will add, it does reduce the felt recoil alot... perhaps both because of the additional weight at the muzzle, & the ports... I have both a 338 Win Mag & a 375 H&H Stainless Stalkers, both with BOSS... both are more accurate than I am, & neither one is much different than shooting a .308 / 30-06

BTW... I don't personally think it's louder than the same rifle without the BOSS & with a 2" shorter barrel... the ports are not angled towards the shooter, so the "effect is no different than a 2" shorter barrel

Freakdaddy
October 8, 2012, 07:49 PM
Some of the other posters summed it up nicely on how the BOSS works so really nothing I can add to that. I will say I have the BAR Safari in .270 and just using the recommended settings in the owners manual, can constantly put 5 rounds of Winchester 130gr Ballistic Silvertip in under 1" at 100 yards. I wouldn't be surprised if I couldn't improve by messing with dialing it in but I'm very pleased with the performance so I don't bother. It is loud if you're shooting off a bench that has a roof over it but out in the woods or field, you don't even notice it. It's amazing how much it does reduce recoil and if you are sensitive to the blast, they also come with an attachment that's not ported that functions the same but the recoil and muzzle report is the same as any non-BOSS rifle. If given the choice, I will opt for the BOSS everytime as I think it's that beneficial.

As far as caliber goes for your intended purpose, the .30/06 is a fine choice but I would take a long hard look at the 7mm Remington Magnum. A little flatter shooting and with very few exceptions, harder hitting then the '06 and ammo easily available although not as many options in various weights as the '06. A little much for Pronghorns but not overkill and with some of the distances you may actually find yourself shooting at, the extra punch would be appreciated especially if it's on a large bodied Muley or an Elk.

warbirdlover
October 8, 2012, 11:34 PM
Could one not achieve the same goal - reduce the harmonic vibration and improve accuracy - by using a barrel de-resonator? You could avoid the increased report caused by the Boss system.

JoeChicago

I played with the LimbSaver de-resonator on my Ruger which was already a sub-MOA rifle. I moved it all over and didn't see any improvement, however I know it works on rifles that don't shoot good groups from talking to others at the range. Looks like heck though. I don't think it's nearly as effective as the BOSS system but a whole lot cheaper.

Schroll down on this link and look at the "AIM" system installed by Gander Mountain gunsmiths....
http://www.gandermountain.com/gunsmith/accurizing.shtml

When I'd run into a wall trying to get better groups out of a rifle with a free floated barrel I'd try putting pressure on the barrel. On some rifles this works!

.

Bart B.
October 9, 2012, 04:00 PM
Browning claims their BOSS adjusts the barrel whip frequency so the bullet leaves when the barrel's stationary. Impossible.

The barrel's never stationary after the primer detonates and burns the powder creating a pressure curve. It wiggles and whips all the time the bullet goes down the barrel and continues for a bit after the bullet's left.

If someone thinks the best place for the bullet to exit is when the muzzle axis is at its highest angle, they need to rethink that. Browning's never proved this happens with their BOSS. Neither has anyone else as far as I know.

'Twas proved over a hundred years ago that the best place for bullets to exit is just before the muzzle angle reaches its highest value as it swings up. Handloading ammo can do this; use the powder charge that gives the smallest many-shot groups at the desired range. With factory ammo, the BOSS may be adjusted to accomplish the same thing, but there's no guarantee.

barnbwt
October 9, 2012, 08:55 PM
I've been intrigued by the BOSS system since it appears it actually works to improve accuracy, moreso since I own a BAR-based FNAR. Does the device just screw onto a threaded barrel, or is there more to it than that? It's basically a position-adjustable muzzle-break/weight, right? I'm suprised other makers aren't ripping off the concept (patents, I guess...)

TCB

Keg
October 10, 2012, 11:41 AM
If the gun has a BOSS on it....That is a plus for me....

natman
October 13, 2012, 03:28 AM
Browning claims their BOSS adjusts the barrel whip frequency so the bullet leaves when the barrel's stationary. Impossible.

The barrel's never stationary after the primer detonates and burns the powder creating a pressure curve. It wiggles and whips all the time the bullet goes down the barrel and continues for a bit after the bullet's left.

You're right, the barrel does "wiggle and whip" from the moment the cartridge fires until well after the bullet is gone.

However, while the barrel is wiggling, there are brief moments when the barrel is indeed stationary, just as the barrel stops wiggling in one direction and before it starts wiggling in the other. That's when you want the bullet to exit and tuning the BOSS allows you to find that sweet spot.

Bart B.
October 13, 2012, 08:04 AM
Nobody, including Browning, has proved bullets leave at the top or bottom of the muzzle axis swing with the Boss set for best accuracy. One can adjust charge weight 1/10th grain and do the same thing as a quarter turn of the BOSS ring. And no powder charge makes pressure curves exact enough to make all bullets leave at the exact moment the muzzle axis is stationary

It has been proved that best accuracy is when bullets exit just before the muzzle axis reaches its highest angle which more easily and better corrects for velocity spreads.

natman
October 13, 2012, 09:40 AM
Nobody, including Browning, has proved bullets leave at the top or bottom of the muzzle axis swing with the Boss set for best accuracy. One can adjust charge weight 1/10th grain and do the same thing as a quarter turn of the BOSS ring. And no powder charge makes pressure curves exact enough to make all bullets leave at the exact moment the muzzle axis is stationary

It has been proved that best accuracy is when bullets exit just before the muzzle axis reaches its highest angle which more easily and better corrects for velocity spreads.

I'm not quite sure what point you are trying to make. First you say it's unproven, then you say it's proven. If you want to quibble about whether the best spot is "just before the muzzle axis reaches its highest angle" instead of standing still, please explain why. I'll grant you that while the muzzle is moving slowly just before it stops is easier to find than when it stops, but I don't see how it's better. Perhaps a citation to your proof would explain it.

Bart B.
October 14, 2012, 08:13 PM
Once one understands the ballistics for a given muzzle velocity in a 40 fps spread and the departure angle each needs for a given bullet to strike the same place on target, it is easy to figure out where in the muzzle axis vertical swing it's best for all the bullets to leave at. It ain't rocket science. Remember that lower muzzle velocities leave later than higher velocities.

natman
October 15, 2012, 01:39 PM
Once one understands the ballistics for a given muzzle velocity in a 40 fps spread and the departure angle each needs for a given bullet to strike the same place on target, it is easy to figure out where in the muzzle axis vertical swing it's best for all the bullets to leave at. It ain't rocket science.

It ain't any kind of science at all as far as I can tell.

Again, got a citation?

Bart B.
October 15, 2012, 03:01 PM
Skip the high level math formulas and look at the last page. That's the best part.

http://archive.org/details/philtrans05900167

On the left side, click on PDF in the "View the book" window.

Simple reasoning is that for slower bullets to strike the same place as faster ones, they all have to leave when the muzzle axis is on the upswing. No other part of the arc lets that happen.

derelict
July 22, 2013, 06:43 PM
Anyone using a BOSS equipped rifle for long distance shooting? Any adverse effects? I only really see reviews for people shooting at 100 yards or so. Im looking at an M1000 Eclipse in .300WM.

ripnbst
July 22, 2013, 08:25 PM
Anyone using a BOSS equipped rifle for long distance shooting? Any adverse effects? I only really see reviews for people shooting at 100 yards or so. Im looking at an M1000 Eclipse in .300WM.

True most people are zeroing at 1 and 200 yards but tighter groups are tighter groups. It applies at all distances.

Magnum Wheel Man
July 23, 2013, 06:09 AM
I have a stainless stalker in 338 Win Mag with a BOSS, that I'll be changing over from a hunting rig, to a longer range target gun over the next 6-12 months... the 4-16 Burris Posi Lock scope will come off, & a good long range scope added, with resettable to zero turrets... over the last year, I ended up getting over 500 new cases ( bought a 5 gallon pail at the local gun show, factory rejects that didn't have flash holes, ( which I've since remedied ) otherwise they are perfect, & of course unfired... so I plan on developing some good handloads for this cartridge, & will see how the Boss system works for longer ranges...

derelict
July 23, 2013, 04:01 PM
I figured that tighter groups are tighter groups but was hoping that there might be some feedback from people using them to take longer shots.

Is there any reason why the new X Bolt rifles do not come with this as an option? That is why I am asking. Im not a big game hunter anymore spending more time fly fishing than anything. I will take the odd trip West to see family and am a member of a long distance (500+ yard) range so Im looking for something with longer range ability than the .270 Ruger No. 1 I used to hunt deer around here (max shot was usually 80 yards).

I am really interested in the BOSS system since I really have no interest, nor the time, to hand load.


Are any of these Browning rifles having feeding issues with the WSM? I really wish they offered a traditional 7mm.

rdavidsonjr
January 26, 2014, 09:31 PM
Contrary to some reports it is neither a weight adjustment or a choke. It is a system that allows you to match the barrel to the load rather than the load to the barrel. Reducing the time consuming powder variations on multiple loads when building a load for a gun to group well. It is accomplished by micro adjusting the length of the barrel so that the bullet exits the barrel in the neutral plane during its harmonic vibration of which all guns do no matter how heavy the barrel is . Granted fluted bull barrels may be above average but they still vibrate. The neutral plane is when the barrel hesitates in the whipping which occurs many times during a shot.It is a matter of a given speed and time matching perfectly to the barrel. Also remember it takes the perfect steady hand to actually see these results. It does however tighten groups of a given round from say 1 1/2" to dime size and that is huge from 300 to 1000 yards. It is the difference between a hit and miss if you are steady ,calculate wind and elevation correctly. I am friends with 3 others besides myself and we are sold on the boss because we have witnessed the results.

rdavidsonjr
January 26, 2014, 09:38 PM
I have several guns without boss systems and I have to load several variations to find the best group.They still rarely compare to the groups with a properly adjusted boss. I last year purchased a 25-06 Thompson pro hunter thumb hole with a fluted stainless bull barrel. Love it, fits like a glove and gets great groups , but they still can't touch my 7 mm or 300 with a boss.