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View Full Version : AR Side Charging Mod was a success.


TITAN308
August 10, 2012, 10:36 AM
The machine shop I work with had never done this type of modification before. I sent them a bunch of info and pictures to show it was quite easy and the BCG was only case hardened. I told them they could offer this as additional service and make some money and I would be happy to send up two upper assembles for them to use as lab rats.

Sent me these pics a bit ago, should be shipping back soon:

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/601/20120807174132.jpg

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/7639/20120807174144.jpg

Kimio
August 10, 2012, 11:05 AM
Pics a red x'd :(

TITAN308
August 10, 2012, 11:42 AM
I see them just fine. :confused:

UtopiaTexasG19
August 10, 2012, 11:47 AM
Pics good from here!

jason41987
August 10, 2012, 06:17 PM
so what will you do about the cut out for the old charging handle?

RamItOne
August 10, 2012, 07:35 PM
I posted a similar setup a month or so ago. Thought it was cool till someone brought up taking down the rifle. Does the grip screw in? How long will it take to vibrate loose?

TimW77
August 10, 2012, 08:51 PM
"AR Side Charging Mod was a success."

Is this supposed to be something new and never done before?
A side charging handle for the AR has been available for years is NOT new.
They are available modified or buy them already made that way.

T.

TITAN308
August 10, 2012, 08:59 PM
so what will you do about the cut out for the old charging handle?

Nothing, it just sits there.

I posted a similar setup a month or so ago. Thought it was cool till someone brought up taking down the rifle.

Wait, you mean someone actually thinks the handle is is permanently attached? My advice would be to take their opinion with a grain of salt, clearly that are a bit clueless about the mod.

Does the grip screw in? How long will it take to vibrate loose?

Yes it screws in. No it won't vibrate loose. Well I suppose if the person who does your machining work stinks at their elected skill set. Then there is a dab or two of locktite as safety net.

Is this supposed to be something new and never done before?

Did I say that?

A side charging handle for the AR has been available for years is NOT new.

Thank you for that completely irrelevant history lesson.

They are available modified or buy them already made that way.

And retro-modding an existing BCG/Receiver is a ton cheaper than buying the pre-created .308 models. Two units modified cost me 1/5th the price.

jason41987
August 10, 2012, 11:35 PM
many rifles with a side charging handle like that have some mechanism to detach the charging handle for takedown, its not uncommon for a rifle to have it detach

impalacustom
August 11, 2012, 01:25 AM
You might want to try to either put a hex or something on the handle as you will find that it does come loose by just hand tightening.

TITAN308
August 11, 2012, 09:59 AM
It is not in the picture, but there is a hole for a hex wrench on the underside to tighten it. :)

80viking
August 11, 2012, 01:07 PM
Looks good.;)

I've been thinking of doing that to my bull barrel AR for a while now.

Eghad
August 11, 2012, 01:54 PM
Sig has been using a side charging handle for years. So this one should work just fine also.

HKFan9
August 12, 2012, 11:04 PM
So you purposely gave your AR-15 one of the major down falls of the m1a and AK (having to remove your hand from the fire controls to rack the bolt) for what reason exactly.

Sure the ar-15 charging handle isnt ideal.. that's why companies make uppers with left side charging handles. However, even with doing the reach over or reach around to operate the AK style bolt, its still slower then being able to sling shot the T handle on an AR-15 with your reaction hand. Unless your lefty of course.

Time matters to those in the service or those shooting competition.. even if were talking fractions of a second, but it all adds up.

I am glad you set up your gun they way you wanted it, and I am not meaning to bash, I just don't see the benefit of it, unless your a lefty.

TITAN308
August 12, 2012, 11:16 PM
I'm not even sure how to respond to the tactical over analyzing anymore.

Not every rifle is for defending, killing, or shooting for points.

What is with all the Debbie downers.

CLC
August 13, 2012, 12:34 AM
How easy do you think it will be to get the charging handle out once you get the gun hot and running? I like the idea just wondering if it will gum up. How much did this set you back?

HKFan9
August 13, 2012, 10:50 AM
I'm not even sure how to respond to the tactical over analyzing anymore.

Not every rifle is for defending, killing, or shooting for points.

What is with all the Debbie downers.


Your right... but if the rifle was designed to be used casually... why spend the money worrying about where the charging handle is instead of just buying more ammo/mags/ or an optic to enjoy it more?

Generally speaking when people start modifying guns, even if not for warfare but for competition or personal enjoyment... it is to IMPROVE the function/performance/design of the original state. To me your modification, went backwards.

Like I said, not trying to bash on you or being a "Debbie Downer" but just trying to understand the logic that went into it.

TITAN308
August 13, 2012, 11:34 AM
Your right... but if the rifle was designed to be used casually... why spend the money worrying about where the charging handle is instead of just buying more ammo/mags/ or an optic to enjoy it more?

Why do you care what other people do with their money?

Do you know how much ammo / mags / optics I have?

Generally speaking when people start modifying guns, even if not for warfare but for competition or personal enjoyment... it is to IMPROVE the function/performance/design of the original state. To me your modification, went backwards.

"To me your modification is backwards," is just that. Your opinion. That does not mean your opinion is fact in every situation.

Charging from the side is a matter of preference and ease depending on the optics setup/size.

The right side was done because it was an easier test of abilities to machine it properly. But in all honesty the whole left side/right side is pointless to me.

My rifle. My preference. I don't question people at the range for their particular equipment. Its considered rude and snobby. Sadly the internet takes away the whole face to face interaction and behavior normally kept in check then becomes the norm.

Like I said, not trying to bash on you or being a "Debbie Downer" but just trying to understand the logic that went into it.

This is like me kicking you in the shin and saying, "Really, I'm not kicking you in the shin. Honestly."

Come on people, its for fun, something new I have not had done to a rifle yet. Would you prefer I posted a battle ready AR-10 in the same old magpul gear you've seen 5,000 times now from other people?

If you find this much issue in a side charging handle I would warn you not to check out some of the products we make for these rifles. You'd probably have a heart attack.

TITAN308
August 13, 2012, 12:26 PM
And as an added note I should have mentioned before. These rifles use adjustable gas blocks.

I can effectively shut the gas off and turn them into single shot rifles. While they do not lock as solid as a standard bolt rifle, the benefits are there regardless.

HKFan9
August 13, 2012, 12:56 PM
Sounds to me like it is some what difficult for you to take constructive criticism or be questioned on your approach. I would ask the same questions in real life face to face, gun range or gun counter. I feel like they were valid questions.

It's pretty well known that side cocking on the right is pretty out dated design wise. Most rifles designed now either adopted the T handle.. or some form of left cocking with an ambidextrous option. You went through the trouble of the research and design and getting the work done, which is a great thing, it looks like it was done right, but I would think more practical if you had it done to the opposite side of the receive, such as other companies have done in the past.

It is not really my opinion that side cocking is slower or less desirable, any time your removing your firing hand from the controls is down time, sure some people might prefer it, but stating its my opinion isn't exactly accurate.

I am sorry you felt attacked, but really if you can't take criticism, or be questioned on your reasoning behind it, and have to revert to calling people childish names such as negative nancy, I don't exactly think posting about the idea on the internet might be the right thing for you to do.

Say I was an interested customer in your modification... and I asked what benefits I would receive from paying for the labor to have you modify my personal firearm... is your explanation going to be... "because that's how we did it, that's what you will get, if you don't like it your just a debbie downer."

I don't think that business model would go really far.

TITAN308
August 13, 2012, 01:06 PM
Why do people like to use the phrase "can't accept constructive criticism" when confronted on their not so subtle underlying tones.

Primarily because that would constitute asking for it. I don't recall asking for it.

No rather, just like some other people I've encountered here you felt the need to press what you believe to be "proper" into the conversation when no one asked for it. And then when confronted about it, fall back on the catch all net of constructive criticism.

It reminds me of people who say bluntly, "This is so stupid to do that" and then when confronted on their rudeness they too like to pull the "Well if you can't take criticism then don't post it."

Or the even funnier part is you give them criticism, over their criticism, and they get all pumped up and flustered, "Wah-wha? You can't do that!"

Benefits are like price tags.

Something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

Benefits are only as good as the person they benefit.

Your wallet is not my wallet. What I see as a benefit is not what you see as a benefit.

And the handful of PMs commenting on this thread seem to confirm my own train of thought. Here is my "criticism" for you. You came off as a snobby know-it-all. Don't take this as being angry or foaming - I'm just letting you know how myself and others apparently view these types of posting.

Someone shared something they enjoy and you have to come in and be that guy who tries to bring a dark rain cloud over what should have been a generic, "Oh hey cool" or "Nice, but not for me" type conversations.

No one likes it when Tactical Bob jumps into a conversation.

- D

RamItOne
August 13, 2012, 01:13 PM
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=486735

TITAN308
August 13, 2012, 01:18 PM
Good god, $500.00?

I can safely say I did two Receivers/BCGs and handle included far below that.

Hell I know of another company besides my machine shop that will do the mod for $95 per unit.

Nice to see someone pointed out the large optics issue with the rear charging handle, that is one of my problems. Chubby digits + large optics = PITA to charge from the rear.

Edit: Not to mention I can now use cheek risers that normally cannot be used with rear charging handles.

HKFan9
August 13, 2012, 01:21 PM
So what your saying is you still cant come up with a benefit to this particular modification?

I can careless as to what you or people think about me when asking a valid question. I think asking critical thinking questions is a pretty important aspect in life but I guess some people are not so interested in thinking critically for themselves.

Funniest part is if you checked your old forum posts when you first came out with your chassis system idea I supported you guys and said it was pretty cool. Maybe not something I would personally need but least when confronted with questions about it you had legitimate and valid reasons for backing up your design.

That project, though not meant for the masses, is actually tangible in its benefits and you defended it as such against people asking "why in the hell?"

Though when I ask the same type of questions on this mod, your reply's just seem to be more of the "hey we spent the money doing it, if you don't like it, go somewhere else."

I actually supported your cause until you just showed a pretty immature attitude when being confronted with a question on a design. It wasn't meant to be a popularity contest, but I would think most consumers would want to know what they would be getting for X amount of dollars, because with your website, you end idea would be to sell this modification, not just do it for yourself.

TITAN308
August 13, 2012, 01:27 PM
Edit: You know what, this could go on. I retracted my post and will just leave it at this:


- Easier to charge with over sized optics or optics that don't have proper eye relief and require rearward seating.

- Those using adjustable gas blocks can convert their semi-auto into a single shot loader. Bit helpful on accuracy and also required with slightly over sized cartridges that will not feed reliably from a magazine or will not fit.

- Technically it provides a better Forward Assist. (though I rarely buy rifles with these as they seem pointless to me personally)

- Expands the availability of risers on the market that could not normally be used because of rear handle clearance.

- Younger people can charge the AR easier in my personal opinion with this. Young kids don't have a lot of finger strength, but that can grab the handle and work it better.

Just a handful of already mentioned uses.

HKFan9
August 13, 2012, 01:42 PM
No not really, you seem me as a snobby *******, that's fine, having sold firearms and working in a gun smith shop for quite sometime I can assure you there are bigger pain in the .. you know than me out there.

What I am getting at is, when people questioned your chassis system, you defended it, and it made sense. This time.. the only benefit I've really seen you list here is if your running large optics or a cheek riser.

That is a valid point, so there you go, but what I was suggesting is, maybe the next step... try one on the left hand side. It can't be overly difficult compared to what you have already done.

I might come off like tactical bob or a snob, that is fine with me, but in the end, I think we can both agree on that looking into a left sided version of your modification might be something worth looking into in the future no? There are valid reasons doing it on the left might make it better for people who are concerned with time or moving hands ect.

It is not an original idea by any means, but if your trying to grow as a small business/custom shop, its worth a look at right?

I might be blunt, and rude, if you want to look at it that way, but I would say sometimes playing devils advocate can be a good thing.

I still like the chassis system, but I think you should take a step back and not look at this like it is a personal attack.

TITAN308
August 13, 2012, 01:44 PM
As indicated, a left side option would be nice, but this was the shops first time giving a go at the mod and it was more ideal to get some practice in on the right side due to less over all milling and clearance issues.

Now I need to find an 8-ball shifter or skull like they used on hot rods to put as a handle.

HKFan9
August 13, 2012, 01:55 PM
Now I need to find an 8-ball shifter or skull like they used on hot rods to put as a handle.

Now that sir... is something we can agree on. Tho a head from a .50bmg would be pretty cool as well.

TimW77
August 13, 2012, 02:14 PM
You post something "for all to see" then act as if you didn't expect any comments/questions.

When people don't understand why you did something that appears backward instead of explaining your reasons better you throw a fit.

When the questioning does not go your way you have to revert to insults.

When "HKFan9" asks reasonable questions you attack him personally.

Instead of telling others they don't belong on this forum, perhaps YOU need to throw your tantrums somewhere else!


"Sadly the internet takes away the whole face to face interaction and behavior normally kept in check then becomes the norm."

Perhaps you should listen to your own words?:rolleyes:

T.

TITAN308
August 13, 2012, 02:57 PM
Tim - you failed to include the part where you went off like a High Schooler on me in PMs (a conversation you initiated mind you) for pointing out your original comments were completely irrelevant and had nothing to do with anything mentioned. I mean some of the phrases and language you used, I could only assume you learned some of those words recently and had to make sure to use them to get practice.

Then when asked a basic question; send me another PM how you are ignoring my responses and how awesome you are and how totally not awesome I am.

What kind of person PMs someone to berate them and when responded to goes, "Nyah! Nyah! I can't hear you..." ?

And now here you are again.

Me and HKfan9 simply had a disagreement and now we are both fine.

You should learn a thing or two on how to let things go son.

Now that sir... is something we can agree on. Tho a head from a .50bmg would be pretty cool as well.

Or a magic 8-Ball. Each time I take a shot I can ask it a question. :D

HKFan9
August 13, 2012, 04:13 PM
Tim I appreciate the understanding on my side of the disagreement but I am going to have to agree with Titan on this one.

Even if you did have the same arguments as me... you basically attacked him at the end of your post about this chassis system.

I will be the first to say... the chassis system Titan designed or is a part of the design... is extremely radical from anything out there. Is it 100% reasonable... probably not. However... it was designed with a reason in mind, and stayed true to those reasons. I see that as a good thing. There are featured there that are benefits, and those were there when they first thought it up and they changed it and worked on it, to get some pretty nice results in my mind.

Yes I disagreed with him about this bolt modification... but I am also mature enough to realize where I came across wrong, and that what he did modify will have intrinsic value if he decides to further this option down the road by adopting it for the left hand side of the firearm.

Still however I must admit the current state of it... would be a really nice feature for a left handed shooter who didn't want to spend money on buying a new left handed AR such as a Stag.


And the magic 8 ball idea would be hilarious. I wouldn't care what side the charging handle was on then.

TITAN308
August 13, 2012, 04:37 PM
You know, I've been kind of mulling over some of these...

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqnPD5va-oeNL8KuMsXnq7SpsrOJiab8lVJLLyNx9u7ID__p_SBcgxjNdw

I mean how manly would it be to have a tassel streaming back and forth with each shot. Oh, even better, have am ambi-charging handle and a tassel on each end slapping me in the face.

Only a real man can still hit his target with tassels slapping him like a trout.

HKFan9
August 13, 2012, 05:38 PM
if you were gonna do that I would say you should offer the Dreadnaught in a Bedazzled version.

TITAN308
August 13, 2012, 06:09 PM
Anything is possible. :eek:

TimW77
August 13, 2012, 08:22 PM
"I mean how manly would it be to have a tassel streaming back and forth with each shot. Oh, even better, have am ambi-charging handle and a tassel on each end slapping me in the face."

Perfect and appropriate for your "chassis system"!!!:D

T.

ritepath
August 13, 2012, 09:31 PM
I knew there was a reason I liked my BAR charging handle compared to the crappy little jobs my AR's have.

On the other hand my AR's don't look like a skill saw when I'm shooting them.

Justice06RR
August 13, 2012, 09:36 PM
I think it looks good.

Post up the pics of the finished rifle when you receive these. Also, can you make these on the left side of the rifle?

TITAN308
August 14, 2012, 10:47 AM
Yes it can be done on the left.

I've got an OD Green and Light Tan lower receivesr I just finished coating waiting on these uppers to get back so I can spray them too. :D

Fishbed77
August 15, 2012, 11:53 AM
"To me your modification is backwards," is just that. Your opinion. That does not mean your opinion is fact in every situation.


I'm not sure why anyone would start a new thread like this on a message board unless they were looking for the opinions of others. That's pretty much why these boards exist.

In my opinion, I have no problem with the traditional AR charging handle location, and see no need to add a reciprocating handle, but the quality of the work here looks good.

To each his own.

TITAN308
August 15, 2012, 12:06 PM
I don't view opinions as black or white. There are good ways to express opinions and less desirable ways to express opinions.

"I do not like that."

vs.

"You are stupid for doing that. That is so dumb!"

Technically both are opinions, but we both know the second one would be considered rude.

This is a problem some people have on the internet. They think they can say whatever they want, HOWEVER they want, and its acceptable because its their "opinion" and that it is perfectly OK.

That is not how reality works.

Woody55
August 15, 2012, 12:20 PM
Looks like nice work. I'm so used to the charging handle in the rear that I'd probably grab for the wrong part for a few years!

Personally, I think the difference between having it on the left or the right is pretty minor. One hand is coming off the weapon no matter where it is. And you can't shoot the side assist on either side until you get that hand away from assist (unless you like broken fingers). Since that hand is returning to wherever it came from, seems like a wash to me.

If you made one with the handle on the left, I guess you'd have one more way for dirt to get into the upper receiver.

Interesting idea. Nice to see someone pursuing their ideas.

HiBC
August 16, 2012, 12:55 AM
You do whatever makes you happy.No problem.You can have different priorities,no problem.

I am curious,how many complete,perfect threads are in the tapped hole?

What is the depth of thread vs diameter ratio? I'm trying to get an idea of the long term durability .That is one of my priorities.

stubbicatt
August 17, 2012, 07:08 AM
Dang. I sort of wish I hadn't read this thread.

To: OP. Cool mod, hope you enjoy it. Good on you for seeking someone to accomplish the changes you desired.

To: Those who bash this guy's mods. Go back to Barf.com, where your whinging and carping are the standard of the day.

Yeesh.