PDA

View Full Version : FN Scar 16s vs FS2000


Gunnut17
August 5, 2012, 12:02 AM
Which rifle would be more worth the large sum of money? The Scar can use a more AR accessories, such as magazines,(Some AR mags won't fit into the FS2000's mag well.) foregrips,(the FS2000 typically has a rail-free forend.) and, with modification, grips. The FS2000 is compact, is a little more ambidextrous, and should have better balance.

So what do think?

SHNOMIDO
August 5, 2012, 01:02 AM
Have you shot the FS2000? I've heard its a pain in the butt.

Gunnut17
August 5, 2012, 01:20 AM
Nah, I wish, it's a cool looking rifle.

jason41987
August 5, 2012, 01:35 AM
SCAR will be a much better rifle.. bullpups always have problems, theyre easy to learn, difficult to master... only bullpup i would spend money on would be the steyr AUG rifle

oneshot onekill
August 5, 2012, 06:53 AM
I actually didn't vote because I've owned both and was unimpressed. The "Tacticool" factor for both had outweighed my better judgement. Once the dust settled from my frenzied "gotta have one" craziness I realized I had spent a lot of money on something that only really does the same thing as an AR for twice the price. They're both cool... No doubt. But for me, that's not enough incentive to spend the extra coin... YMMV.

plouffedaddy
August 5, 2012, 07:29 AM
Have you shot the FS2000?

This is the first thing I thought too... I have shot it---it has a horrid trigger. That said, I wouldn't get a SCAR 16 either but it does feel like a higher quality rifle when you fire it. Now a SCAR 17--yeah, I'd be all over that :D

David the Gnome
August 5, 2012, 09:32 AM
Mmmmm Scar 17... That's where it's at right there. :D

RT
August 5, 2012, 09:33 AM
Scar. No question

jason41987
August 5, 2012, 10:07 AM
i agree with oneshot onekill and plouffe daddy, though with the choices given, id go SCAR... if i had any choice id pass up on either one... SCAR doesnt offer anything you cant get in an AR15 with aftermarket modifications (you can get a short-stroke piston, reciprocating side charging handle, and quick change barrel in the AR15)... so if i had any choice it would be that, or a rifle ive been coming to really like, the sig 556

Uncle Malice
August 5, 2012, 10:22 AM
Scar for sure. My friend has an FS2000. Such a piece of junk. Jams frequently and nearly impossible to clear them with the tiny hole.

I like piston guns, but I'm not real big on piston AR's... I guess it's just something about preferring to use a gun under it's intended design parameters. With that said, the Scar would be an excellent piston gun. From everything I've seen, it seems to have a better track record for reliability too.

I'm happy with a good higher end AR... DD or BCM.

FrosSsT
August 5, 2012, 11:13 AM
I would go with the SCAR - but NOT the 16. For the price there are way to many options out there in 5.56. Grab yourself the 17 and call it a day. The recoil is almost that of the 5.56 (a little more but not at all bad for a 7.62/.308) I have never had any problems with it, and if you do some research and read you will learn it is quickly becoming dubbed as one of the best battle rifles out there today.

Creeper
August 5, 2012, 11:18 AM
I'll take poll option #3. ;)

Cheers,
C

cookie5
August 9, 2012, 07:13 PM
I would just get a high quality AR15 and call it a day.

Gunnut17
August 9, 2012, 10:05 PM
Why are all my polls slaughters for one side?

Blindmike
September 16, 2012, 08:47 PM
When it come to the Scar or the FS2000 there is one thing for sure. You get what you pay for and more. The price on both of the weapons is high as a kite and this limits the number of people who can enjoy these fine weapons. I own a FS2000 and would not trade it for any other bullpup made. It is true the trigger is like squeezing a sponge that is something you can learn to live with and after a while you don't think anything of that point. The FS2000 is as well balanced as reported and can be held and shot with one hand and hit what you aim at also. The cases coming out the front is very handy if standing close to others will the gun is fired. And I can not say enough about how hand this rifle is when in a tight place and yet still have a 17" barrel that lets you reach out and touch the longer range targets. I could go on about this rifle but I think the fine points have been well covered.
The Scar is another fine weapon but for me it doesn't bring anything to the table that you can't have in an AR-15 platform of your choice. Please do not think I am knocking the Scar down it is a fine weapon but we are discussing price and really spending the money on one or the other. That being the case IMHO I will and did pick the FS2000. Not to say anything of you can by the FS2000 for so much less than the SCAR that you will be able to put some of the goodies you will want on the rifle and still not spend as much as would be spent on the SCAR.

10mmAuto
September 16, 2012, 09:04 PM
I'd get the Scar - in .308.

HKFan9
September 17, 2012, 07:10 PM
Not a fan of either but I would give the nod to the SCAR. However neither does anything your standard AR won't do for 1/3 the price... but I ordered an ACR from work (I get a discount) just to have something different for a rainy day, so I can't judge too much.:cool:

Palmetto-Pride
September 17, 2012, 07:49 PM
If I was going to drop that kind of coin I would get a H&K MR556A1, but thats just me. Sorry I cant help you on your poll, but I have held a SCAR 16 in my hand and was not impressed at all with it.

dorc-1
September 17, 2012, 09:48 PM
Just be patient and wait for the Beretta 160 arx.

BoomieMCT
September 19, 2012, 08:51 AM
Haven't shot a SCAR so I can't speak to that. However I do own a FS2000. I got it in a (very favorable) trade with the idea I could sell or trade up for more. After shooting it I don't think I will be getting rid of it.

I've put thousands of rounds though it with only 3 jams. They were all early on before I found what brand mags it did and did not like. Since I figured that out I've had zero issues. Yes, you cannot use Pmags.

I find the controls to be exactly where I want them. My only complaint is the lack of a last shot bolt hold open. Mag changes are slower than an AR (no drop free) but, with a bit of practice, comparable or faster than any other rifle (certainly faster, for me, than an AK or HK91 platform).

In stock form it does not have a ton of rails. I don't really care as I can fit a low power scope and a light on the rails it has. I have no need for other accessories. For those that do, there is a tri-rail foreend that is very easy to install. I personally find the factory stock to be very ergonomic and adding something like a VFG would be counter productive.

The trigger is okay, comparable to a stock military M16/M4. Other than the addition of a Neu-trigger ($25 mod which takes a lot of the "sponge" out) there isn't too much that can be done to clean it up. For a fast shooting working rifle I find it to be more than adequate and find off-hand shots to 150 yards (furthest my range goes) to not be an issue.

I think a lot of the hate for this rifle come from people who haven't put much time behind the trigger and who expect any black rifle to be just like an AR.

HKFan9
September 19, 2012, 09:32 PM
I don't hate it.... I just think its a fad that never caught on. Wasn't there a problem with the firing pins in them as well?

kinoons
September 20, 2012, 10:43 PM
I haven't handled a SCAR, but I had a FS2000 and traded I for a stag piston AR -- I just couldn't get used to the trigger on the FS2000, it just plain sucks. The trigger on my ps90 is okay, the fs2000 is impossible to feel -- you don't know when it's going to break. May as well just mash the trigger on the FS.

So I'll take damn near anything over a FS2000

BoomieMCT
September 21, 2012, 02:23 PM
@ HKfan9: The early ones had a firing pin issue, yes. It was a flaw in the conversion from full to semi auto.That has been long since solved. I hear FN will fix any that still have that issue gratis.

Hutch11
September 21, 2012, 03:57 PM
I have both rifles. I was going to sell the FS2000, but my wife, who is petite, loves to shoot it. As with other bullpup designs, the weight of the rifle is towards the rear and it is very easy to hold. Most shooters, especially on this forum, are familiar with AR-15/ AR-10 style rifles. I personally like the SCAR in 5.56 and 7.62. Unfortunately, FN charges quite a hefty premium for their rifles and the civilian models are made in Belgium, which limits what accessories can be legally added.

Again, although I like my Scar's, I can't say they are really better than a well made Ar-15 for the additional money. However, when I go hog hunting (Scar 17 is mush lighter than the AR-10's I have used), or to the range, I usually take a Scar along.:)

Microgunner
September 21, 2012, 04:16 PM
I own a FN FS2000 and find it easy to use.
The trigger isn't so good but goes bang every time.
It will accept all AR-15 mags if you remove the rubber mag well gasket which will also allow free fall of the mags.
The strangest thing about shooting it is the weird hollow sound you hear when your cheek is pressed to the butt stock.
I mean, really, the entire fire control mechanism slides out the rear in one piece, without tools.
How cool is that?
Bystanders like to watch it firing just to see the empties spitting out the front.
But for serious duty I'd take my M4 over my FS2000 every time.

The Long Shot
September 21, 2012, 07:24 PM
For the amount of money you can do better. The fs2000 has a nasty habit of jamming from my experience. For the same price of a SCAR you could build an AR-15 type rifle that shoots under .5 MOA with all of the features you like on a scar.

10mmAuto
September 22, 2012, 02:08 AM
SCAR you could build an AR-15 type rifle that shoots under .5 MOA with all of the features you like on a scar.
Short stroke gas piston operation, a MRBS 3-4 times lower than an M4 and a folding stock?

Love my AR-15, but it will never be a Scar and a Scar will never be my AR-15.

The Long Shot
September 22, 2012, 03:53 PM
Short stroke gas piston operation, a MRBS 3-4 times lower than an M4 and a folding stock?

Love my AR-15, but it will never be a Scar and a Scar will never be my AR-15.

Look At a p415, 9,000 rounds full auto without cleaning or lubrication and no gun related failures. There is a side folding stock adapter for the ar-15. I have also seen them fire filled with mud, sand, and water without any failures personally.

By no means am I saying that the scar is bad, or that the ar is better, i just think that it is overpriced. I'd buy another scar if the price was lowered to around 1200-1500.

I really don't want to start a scar vs ar debate, this is a scar vs fs2000 thread and the scar wins.

WLJ
September 24, 2012, 04:43 PM
For those complaining about the FS2000's trigger try this, helps alot.

Neu-Trigger for FN FS2000
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=308034169

Sturmgewehre
September 26, 2012, 01:53 PM
Owning both for several years and shooting them extensively, the SCAR is the better overall rifle.

The FS2000 is interesting and fun to shoot, however it has some areas of concern from my perspective.

First, it's a sealed system. That means the rifle's defense against hostile environments is to be sealed as best as it can be to the elements. This design philosophy is at the root of all the problems I see with the design.

The rifle ejects out the front. This is a novel idea that deals with the problem of shooting the rifle either left or right handed without having to swap out bolts or worrying about where brass is being ejected. However, the shuttle system used to move spent cases up from the chamber and line them up to be pushed down a long ejection chute can be problematic.

Since the rifle lacks a conventional ejection port, if you get a malfunction (and they do happen) you don't have a large hole on the side of the receiver by which you can access the inner workings of the rifle to clear the malfunction. This goes back to the sealed system I spoke of earlier. To give the operator access to the chamber area for clearing the weapon they incorporated a plastic flip-up cover. The cover is rather flimsy in construction I wouldn't expect it to hold up to much abuse. The bigger problem is that the shuttle obstructs easy access to the chamber even with the top cover up. Here's a picture of what I'm talking about.

http://www.intempusphotography.com/photos/i-qNm3fQT/0/L/i-qNm3fQT-L.jpg

That's the chamber nestled down in action. The white device you see is the shuttle used to ferry the spent cases up and out of the rifle.

Here's a shoot looking down through the top cover:

http://www.intempusphotography.com/photos/i-Pdgftcm/0/L/i-Pdgftcm-L.jpg

As you can imagine, clearing malfunctions can be a bit challenging. I've found that to clear malfunctions you must remove the magazine, flip open the top cover and shake the rifle right-side-up, up-side-down, left and right. Eventually, if things aren't too jammed up, the problem round/case will fall out of the action. If you get a round trying to go in the chamber and a failure to eject through the chute, now you have a bigger problem. You'll need a stick or similar device to poke things, or you'll have to field strip the rifle to get the problem cleared.

The other issue that I've seen people mention in this thread is the fact it doesn't accept anything but GI contract magazines or mags that copy the profile perfectly. You can remove the wipes inside the magazine well and it will then accept other mags, but now you've broken the seal on the system and allow for the ingress of debris. Debris and the FS2000 don't play well together... it causes malfunctions. The malfunctions can be troublesome to clear if they're severe (see above).

The rifles aren't all that accurate. With my rifle I'm lucky to get 2 MOA out of it with optics. It's not horrible, but for a super modern rifle I would expect at least AR15 type accuracy with good ammo. With mine, that's not the case.

I've found the SCAR's I own to be far better suited to regular use. They use a conventional design that is robust and easy to use. The SCAR is also quite accurate despite the thin barrel. Given a choice between the two, I would take the SCAR without hesitation.