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View Full Version : When the Nagants are all bought up,,,


aarondhgraham
July 31, 2012, 04:14 PM
When the Nagants are all bought up,,,
What will be the inexpensive entry level rifle?

Back in my youth (late 50's - early 60's) there was a vast selection of inexpensive mil-surp rifles,,,
Most could be had for $20-$40 dollars through a mail order catalog.

The only one I see now for a low price (less than $150.0) is the Mosin Nagant,,,
When they are all bought up what will people migrate to?

Aarond

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FrosSsT
July 31, 2012, 04:21 PM
History repeats itself - think of the Mosin as the modern day SKS. They could be had for $150 easily a while back, and now they are selling for $450-$600.

As for the next cheap rifle, that may be a thing of the past as well.

aarondhgraham
July 31, 2012, 04:29 PM
As for the next cheap rifle, that may be a thing of the past as well.

That's what I was thinking,,,
I just thought one of the mil-surp nuts here might know what's over the horizon.

I remember the cheap SKS's,,,
Several of my friends got theirs at the same time at a gun show,,,
This was back in 1994 when the Assault Weapons Ban was coming into play.

I think they paid $110.00 apiece for theirs.

Aarond

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robertsig
July 31, 2012, 05:12 PM
Since the next generation of military weapons aren't allowed to be sold to the public (full-auto AK47, M16, M14, etc), I don't think there is anything left. Maybe pistols?

Capybara
July 31, 2012, 06:08 PM
What else can there be? If you trace the chronology of military arms, after the Mosin, we have the SKS, the AK... The Swedish K31 is great but they are going up in price and ammo is expensive and not very common. Ammo is the key. Are there any classic, plentiful cheap guns that shoot 5.45?

I think the Mosin is the final frontier in a way. Buy 'em while you can, I just bought my first 91/30, looking for a good deal on an M44 and an M38, probably will get a hex Tula 91/30 too. Love mine, by far the best bang for the buck. Just praying that 7.62x54R stays cheap for a long time.

Nico Testosteros
July 31, 2012, 08:14 PM
Swiss K31. Sweden used Mausers.

nimbleVagrant
July 31, 2012, 08:15 PM
Steyr M95 rifles are the only other $100 surplus rifles left. They're cheap but surplus ammo is nearly nonexistant so you're left spending $20+ per box of Prvi or rolling your own. That's why you don't often hear about 'em.

The M-N is the end of the line.

FrankenMauser
August 1, 2012, 12:49 AM
The Mosins were the last to come in for more than one reason, but the biggest one was:
They're ugly, cheap rifles, that were never expected to sell well in this market. The biggest reasons they're actually doing well right now, are that there's nothing else left and there are a bunch of Com-Bloc nations trying to make a buck on something they see as 'useless'.

When the Mosins are gone, we're done. As mentioned by robertsig, there aren't any newer milsurps we can buy (due to import issues or select-fire restrictions). There may be the occasional shipment of something we've already seen, but the Mosins really seem to be the end of the line for affordable and abundant milsurps.

customaquatics
August 1, 2012, 07:05 AM
when i got mine it was $89 now they are a cheap $120 here so ima buy a couple more for uhh insurance :)

aarondhgraham
August 1, 2012, 08:38 AM
The reason I was asking is that I want to buy a birthday gift for an 18 year old young man.

He's been talking about a Mosin Nagant,,,
But I know it's not the rifle that attracts him,,,
But the low cost of the rifle and it's ammunition.

I thought maybe there was one more old mil-surp I could look for.

Thanks again,,,

Aarond

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Zhillsauditor
August 1, 2012, 09:39 AM
Look at it this way: the MN is cheap because a foreign government paid to have it made. Basically, the free ride on the backs of the soviet people is over folks, time to pay one's own way. :D

g.willikers
August 1, 2012, 11:17 AM
When all the old guys who like and own these types of rifles, leave this earthly life, those guns will all come back on the market and probably get real cheap, again.
Just a thought.

bumnote
August 1, 2012, 11:42 AM
Mosins are always going to be the least expensive rifle out there....the 10's of millions of them made will pretty much guarantee that. They may not alway be $100, but they'll still be less than othe mil-surps out there. Personally I believe it'll be a long time before they're all bought up, I wouldn't be surprised if there are still 100's of thousands if not a million or more of them still in storage in various places and countries around the world.

The reason I was asking is that I want to buy a birthday gift for an 18 year old young man.
My favorites are the Swiss K31, still easily found for $250-350, and the Swedish Mausers. Only 500K K31's were made and their quality and accuracy is amazing, I'm amazed they sell for so low price.
Swede's are my favorite, more expensive but incredible workmanship and accuracy and the 6.5x55 is a great round.
The biggest drawback would be ammo isn't as cheap for those, 7.5x55 and 6.5x55, compared to 7.62x54R....but it's not that expensive either.
A great 19th birthday gift could be a reloading kit. :)

shaunpain
August 1, 2012, 12:04 PM
Really, for the old milsurps I've been taking a look at, Samco really just has some the best rifles money can buy. You won't see them much lower on Gunbroker, and you're dealing with a company that isn't going to give you a raw deal. JG sales may still have those cheap Mosins, but from what I remember after I purchased mine, they have climbed a bit since then. I'm a big fan of milsurp rifles and my last recent purchase was an Ishapore in .308. I went that route because I knew I definitely wanted an Enfield, but couldn't absorb the unavailability of ammo (I don't reload, either). 7.62 NATO is abundant, which is REALLY what the rifle is supposed to eat, but I've read that the N type steel will take the punishment of the .308 as well. These can get pricey, but I got mine for a cool $260 or so. I also bought a Yugo SKS for about the same price, give or take five bucks, and I was happy to do so.

Zhillsauditor
August 1, 2012, 02:29 PM
For $300 you can get a new stevens in 308 that will outshoot most milsurps out of the box. Only a MN is really a cheaper alternative on the milsurp market.

aarondhgraham
August 1, 2012, 02:38 PM
For $300 you can get a new stevens in 308 that will outshoot most milsurps out of the box.

Well heck yeah I could,,,
But I don't want to spend $300.00 on him,,,
I can only support so many kids in their gun acquisitions. ;)

Aarond

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johnwilliamson062
August 1, 2012, 10:50 PM
20 to 30 dollars in 1950? That is crazy expensive!!!
What cost $30 in 1955 would cost $241.48 in 2010.
^from an inflation calculator.

I would buy a Swiss K31 if it is in your price range. Best value in a center-fire rifle IMO. Could be used to hunt anything and also used as a target rifle. Ammunition isn't cheap, but it isn't expensive either, especially when you consider GP11 is as high quality as US match rounds.

tahunua001
August 1, 2012, 11:43 PM
unfortunately there is nowhere else to go. a great amount of the cold war era rifles have already been bought up(IE the countless AK44/74 clones out there). good ole bill clinton decided he would rather spend more money to have all milsurp rifles disposed of rather than make money by selling surplus to civilians so there are going to be no new sources of surplus rifles available and since the importation of autos is illegal any of the new rifle designs are going to have to be hacked, chopped, converted to semi, and mixed with american parts just like the AK clones.

quick and simple answer is once the mosins are gone, there will be no cheap entry level milsurp.

entry level bolt gun is going to be whatever walmart has in their racks for cheap.

EDIT: a 20 dollar springfield in the 60s equates to about a $200 springfield today... since springfields currently go for $700-1000 in good condition I am fairly certain that sombody's idea of inflation is off.

kilimanjaro
August 2, 2012, 12:05 AM
Maybe some more Russian Capture pieces, but that's about it. Enjoy it now.

nimbleVagrant
August 2, 2012, 01:21 AM
Buy the 91/30s and m44s while they're still inexpensive and buy as much surplus ammunition as you can. I've got spam cans in my garage that I shouldn't need to open for at least 10 or 15 years...unless I get a PSL.

L_Killkenny
August 2, 2012, 03:11 PM
What cost $30 in 1955 would cost $241.48 in 2010.

That's what I was gonna say. Once you adjust for inflation guns are actually a good buy compared to the past. Once the MN's are gone you're just gonna have to look to the used sporter market for deals like we had in the past. Personally, a just about any used $250 sporter is a better value than even the cheapest MN's IMO and used bolt action .223's are pretty easy to come buy if cheap ammo is a concern. Better yet, buy him a .22lr.

aarondhgraham
August 2, 2012, 03:25 PM
Better yet, buy him a .22lr.

Funny you should mention that,,,
For his 16th birthday he got an old Marlin bolt with a 49 cent 2X scope.

The kid can stand offhand and pop a 3" steel spinner almost every shot at 50 yards.

I wish I could buy him something like a Savage Axis or a Stevens 200,,,
But I really don't want to spend that much of my cash,,,
Also I think it might embarrass the parents a bit.

They are good friends and they know I like to play Uncle,,,
But I think there is a line that could be crossed.

The Evil Pawn Shop Guy said he'll be getting some $109.00 Nagants in very soon,,,
I think I'll stick with that plan and a couple of boxes of ammo.

Thanks gentlemen,,,
It was an interesting thread. :)

Aarond

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spacecoast
August 2, 2012, 03:43 PM
Those silver quarters you were saving back in 1960 to buy a $40 rifle are now worth almost $5. I think the $150 Mosins are a lot cheaper than what you were paying then.

L_Killkenny
August 2, 2012, 03:56 PM
I think the $150 Mosins are a lot cheaper than what you were paying then.

But then again back then it wasn't Mosins. It was springfields, enfields, mausers, etc. All much better guns than the 2x4.

Justice06RR
August 3, 2012, 02:01 AM
Somewhat off topic, but where do you guys normally buy your 7.62x54 ammo locally? I looked everywhere (BassPro, Dick's, Walmart) and didn't find any. I know they sell them bulk online, but wanted to see if any local stores had them. Thanks.

shaunpain
August 3, 2012, 07:35 AM
Look to your mom and pops. I haven't had luck finding the ammo at any major retailer, but I can find it in pounds at Maxxon in Des Plaines, a short ride from Chicago where I live. I feel that I have seen boxes of Tula or Wolf in 54r, but have yet to see it stocked anywhere.

customaquatics
August 3, 2012, 02:37 PM
all over central illinois in brown bear SP loads an FMJ an most places sell the surplus by the tin an single packs.

Gunplummer
August 3, 2012, 09:42 PM
Everything goes in a circle. All those junk .32 and .38 revolvers that everyone has a shoe box full of may be the new collector, who knows?

shaunpain
August 4, 2012, 01:36 AM
Gunplummer, I sure hope you're right. I have a Police Positive in .32 I'd love to see working again, but not when it costs hundreds of dollars on the work!

9mm
August 4, 2012, 11:32 PM
I paid $110 for my mosin (long one, forget model number the most common one) and $185 for my M44


I see the regular one is now $150+ and the other $300ish! lol maybe I should go get another regular one, I just saw one at the gun show for $109.99.


Somewhat off topic, but where do you guys normally buy your 7.62x54 ammo locally? I looked everywhere (BassPro, Dick's, Walmart) and didn't find any. I know they sell them bulk online, but wanted to see if any local stores had them. Thanks. LGS had a 2 boxs so I bought one box. The other I ordered from CTD for $99.99

Gun store down the road like 30mins away has 20x+ stacks of sealed 2x in a pack.

You can find them at gun shows, sealed cans, or silver bear blue box.

johnwilliamson062
August 5, 2012, 09:25 PM
If the Russian surplus stores ever actually open up we will see a flood of rifles none preceding it.
Yugoslavia is a rather small country and look at what their SKS's have done. Just imagine if all the Russians were released.

Drummer101
August 5, 2012, 09:33 PM
Around here they are from 89 to 99 at fleet farm for the 91/30

And I think I am picking up an m44 in Tuesday :D

BlueTrain
August 6, 2012, 01:39 PM
I was glancing at an article in a 1960 gun magazine about converting a Swiss rifle to .30-30 because of the lack of ammunition (might have been an older rifle, not a K-31). So I'd have to say a limiting factor in the future would be the ammunition. That is, ammunition at a price you're willing to pay. Twenty years ago, I think the only ammunition available in 7.62x54r was from Norma and it was expensive. All Norma ammunition is expensive.

There seems to be an almost inexhaustible supply of bolt actions available and that which is already here will be coming back on the market sooner or later. It's hard to believe that when I bought my 1949 FN rifle, the .308 Ishapore Lee-Enfields rifles had yet to be manufactured.

Regarding the inflation factor, remember that the prices of everything does not go up the same degree. When I bought my new Browning Hi-Power in 1971, a box of new factory made American 9mm ammunition was $5. The pistol was $105. I also bought an H&R .45-70 at the same store but I don't remember what it cost. I only remember I had trouble paying for them.

Whitetail99
August 10, 2012, 11:56 PM
If Russia had a 100 pounds of guns they haven't even let out half an once. (I do realize that they have a lot more than 100 pounds of guns for all you smartbutts out there:D) so no I don't expect the sks's and mosins to ever fully dry up. Eventually they'll need money to fund some pointless war against a country that nobody has ever heard of and the'll sell those guns off right quick.

customaquatics
August 12, 2012, 10:36 AM
i see maybe the russian Nagant pistol being the next cheap surplus maybe?

DennisCA
August 17, 2012, 11:19 PM
Everytime I think the mosin's are drying up, another batch surfaces.

I guess some day the supply will dry up but it won't happen any time soon.