PDA

View Full Version : Going with Aimpoint Micro H1...not sure which mount?


mitranoc
July 9, 2012, 09:35 AM
Made up my mind finally. Going with the H1 2MOA and a 3x mag. Now I must decide if I'm going with lower 1/3 or an absolute cowitness mount. I like the idea of absolute cowitness, and I have folding sights. I have never tried a lower 1/3?

Absolute:
- Don't like the appearance of the Larue LT751 absolute cowitness mount.
- I like the American Defense QD blocky style mount much better, but not sure it will be as reproducible for holding zero and staying tight as the Larue?

(If) Lower 1/3:
- Definitely Larue

Any user thoughts based on useage? I know some will say it's not about how it looks, but I think that fit, function, and appearance are equally important...at least to me.

Technosavant
July 9, 2012, 10:00 AM
I have my Aimpoints on lower 1/3 mounts, both LaRue (one is indeed the Aimpoint Micro).

Personally, I like the lower 1/3 cowitness- the FSB isn't obscuring half the view when you're looking directly down the tube and you can hold your head up slightly more upright than with the absolute cowitness mount.

It's mostly a matter of preference, but with these things, I think the advantages of lower 1/3 outweigh those of the absolute.

mitranoc
July 9, 2012, 01:12 PM
Technosavant,
Regarding absolute cowitness, are you saying that the FSB obscures the view even if the sight is folded down?

plouffedaddy
July 9, 2012, 01:57 PM
(If) Lower 1/3:
- Definitely Larue

I have rifles with both absolute and lower 1/3. If I could only have 1 setup, I'd have lower 1/3rd and run the gun with the front sight up at all times (what I do with my HD AR). I think I just like the sight picture better but that's a matter of opinion and you're really have to try both to find out. I've got the Larue QD on the rifle below:

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l178/tiffani33/Guns/IMAG1289.jpg

Crow Hunter
July 9, 2012, 02:24 PM
Personally, I like the lower 1/3 cowitness- the FSB isn't obscuring half the view when you're looking directly down the tube and you can hold your head up slightly more upright than with the absolute cowitness mount.

I agree with Technosavant.

I prefer lower 1/3 as well.

With the front sight folded you won't see it in either Absolute or Lower 1/3.

The advantage that Absolute has is that it is closer to the bore, so your offset is less and you don't have 2 different "cheek positions" for RDS vs Irons.

Keep in mind, even with the front sight in place, you should be looking at the target with both eyes open and superimposing the dot on the target. You will "see through" the front sight post. It isn't possible to simulate this effect of binocular vision with a camera. (Only one lense)

Just like if you put your right hand up in front of your right eye, with both eyes open, you will "see through" your hand. It works the same with the front sight. It will still be there, but unless you focus on it, you won't really "see it".

Crow Hunter
July 9, 2012, 03:45 PM
Going with the H1 2MOA and a 3x mag.

Try this before you buy it, if you can.

I used to have an Aimpoint 3X magnifier in a Larue Flip to the Side mount.

I didn't like it at all. The eye relief was very short, the eye box was really tight, it weighed alot and folded over, it really unbalanced the rifle for carrying.

If I were doing it again, I would rather have the standard Aimpoint twist mount and just add the 3x when I was going to use it.

That being said, I would go Trijicon TA33 versus having a 3X magnifier.

MUCH lighter, better glass, better eye relief/eye box and if you are going for an Aimpoint 3X, it will nearly be the same price as the 2 combined.

Especially since your rifle is has folding sights. That was one of my biggest beefs with the TA33 that I had.

Technosavant
July 9, 2012, 05:19 PM
are you saying that the FSB obscures the view even if the sight is folded down?

I missed the bit about the folding front sight. Whoops.

I do indeed have the 3x magnifier on the LaRue FTS mount... it works fine, but that one usually lives on the rifle with the CompM4. It works well, but it does add weight and throws the balance a little bit. The Micro is on my lightweight AR.

The magnifier has the nice ability of letting you have either a good CQB rifle or a little bit of magnification if you want to be able to place the shot slightly more precisely. It's not as good as a dedicated scope or an ACOG, but those aren't quite as good as the Aimpoint for rapid target acquisition. Nice glass though (on the ACOGs)... you just need to decide what you're more likely to want with the rifle. If you anticipate closer shots, Aimpoint/magnifier may be the better choice. If you anticipate longer shots or using it for more precision, the scope or ACOG might be better for you.

mitranoc
July 9, 2012, 06:33 PM
Maybe it would make more sense to just get the micro as a close in optic only, and bag the 3x time magnifier idea. I’ve heard others say the same thing about eye relief, and compared it to looking through a straw. Instead, maybe I should also pick up a Weaver or Leupold non-illuminated 1-3x or 1-4x when I want to get some distance. I only have one AR, so it’s my “do it all” AR. Target/range, boar hunting, last resort SHTF gun.

I guess another option is just go with a decent illuminated 1-4x scope. But, is there an option out there that 1x is really 1 time?

I do a lot of shooting in very bright sunlight, so I like the idea of battery powered optics. I shot a buddy’s AR with an ACOG TA11F and I struggled to see the chevron in the bright sunlight.

Crow Hunter
July 9, 2012, 07:17 PM
Unless you are shooting at very small targets at a distance, I think you would be better off with an Aimpoint by itself. Based on my personal optics journey.:D

I started with an Aimpoint. Then I tried out a Trijicon TR24 1X4 in a Larue mount. Then a TA33 Green Horseshoe with a standard Trijicon mount.

I didn't like the TR24 because it was really heavy and bulky. I also can't use triangles for aiming points worth a crap. I can never make up my mind what to aim with.:o My brother has it on his SCAR 17 now and he seems to really like it.

I didn't like the TA33 because of the magnification at close range and the front sight being in my FOV. My right eye is so dominant that trying to use it left handed I couldn't see through it at all. I actually wrote up a review on it somewhere around here.

I also tried the FTS Aimpoint 3x and it was heavy, threw off the balance and it hit me in the glasses several times when I went on a "patrol" to the back 40 and did some off hand shooting. I also found out that you don't sight in with the magnifier, it throws off the aim without the magnifier.:o Also when shooting, I would loose the target in recoil and have to search for my "dust puff" when walking shots in to the 500 yard target. With just the red dot, I could see the puff as it hit. It also just magnifies. There are no reference points for holdovers/ranging. You just have to hold over and remember that everything looks 3x bigger. So that 8 inches that you normally hold over looks different through the magnifier that it does to the naked eye.;)

I decided that for what I was doing with it. (Mainly shooting 150 yards and in at targets no smaller than a milk jug), I would be better off without magnification.

My advice would be to get a low cost magnifier to start with and see if you like it, if you can't borrow one to try out 1st. That way you won't be out quite so much if it doesn't work out for you.

mitranoc
July 9, 2012, 07:42 PM
Good point Crow Hunter about trying a magnifier first. I am going to start with the H1 and see how it goes. 90% of my shooting is typically 150 yards max. Also, it would be nice to keep my light AR "light".

I'm wondering now if I should still go with the 2 MOA? Meaning, if I find the mag is not necessary, would the 2 MOA still be a better bet?

Technosavant
July 9, 2012, 08:13 PM
I have a 2MOA Aimpoint (CompM4) and a 4 MOA (Micro T-1).

To be truly honest, I don't really notice much in the size of the dot when swapping between the two rifles. Sure, the 2MOA is smaller, but if you aren't trying to notice it you really won't.

mitranoc
July 9, 2012, 09:10 PM
Good info to know...Thanks. 2 MOA it is.

Crow Hunter
July 9, 2012, 09:27 PM
I like your plan.:D I came full circle myself, but honestly you really need to try each of them for yourself to see what YOU like. Your eyes/shooting style is most likely different than mine or anyone elses. If you live in Central Florida Rob Sloyer has carbine matches that he runs fairly frequently. I know that he runs a TA33 and I am sure there will be a pretty good mix of different optics present. See if you can go to a match, most people would be happy to let you try out their optic. That way you can see what it is like in person.

On the dot size.

My brother has a 4 MOA R1. I compared it to my M4S.

Outside in the sunlight, it looked basically the same. Actually, it looked to me like he just had one more "extra" brightness setting.

The only time that I notice a difference is if I am trying to sight a rifle in. You can turn the 2MOA dot down to a barely visible pinprick. The R1 is a little bit larger.

I would be fine with either one personally.

I went with the M4 because of the larger housing and longer battery life and AA battery usage rather than the 2MOA dot.

One thing to keep in mind about Aimpoints. Their "insane battery life" is only good at one setting or lower. For instance the M4 it is only good at setting 12 of 16. That setting is not visible in direct noontime sunlight. You have to go with 14 or 15 to see it. That is a dramatically increased drain on the battery. I think it drops to like 7,000 hours at the highest setting on the M4. If you leave it set higher, it won't last the quoted 50,000 hours. The larger dot is easier to see in bright light, which should allow you to run it at a lower setting and thus reduce your battery drain.

Just something else to keep in mind while you are pondering. :D

mitranoc
July 9, 2012, 10:06 PM
I'm definitely going to look up the carbine matches that you spoke of. I'm in South FL, but it would be worth the drive north to check out..

I didn't know that regarding the settings/battery life?

Now I have to wait for Larue to get 2 MOA's back in stock. They seem to have the best deal, as well as a bunch of goodies.

rob_s
July 10, 2012, 05:43 AM
Just to clarify, the matches I started and used to run are here in SE Florida at Markham Park. I am no longer affiliated with them but they still have them.
http://tssaidpa.us/wordpress/index.php/sfdcc/

mitranoc
July 10, 2012, 07:36 AM
Even better...Markham is much closer to home.

mitranoc
July 10, 2012, 07:40 AM
Has anyone had any experience with this American Defense absolute cowitness mount?


http://i626.photobucket.com/albums/tt348/cmitrano1/aimpointm-1340148726-15283.jpg
http://i626.photobucket.com/albums/tt348/cmitrano1/aimpointm-1340148724-15282.jpg
http://i626.photobucket.com/albums/tt348/cmitrano1/aimpointm-1340148727-15284.jpg

Crow Hunter
July 10, 2012, 07:51 AM
Just to clarify, the matches I started and used to run are here in SE Florida at Markham Park. I am no longer affiliated with them but they still have them.

Dang.

I didn't realize you stopped running them.

Thanks for clarifying.

RT
July 11, 2012, 06:14 PM
I like my LaRue, but my second choice would be a KAC or Daniel Defense

mitranoc
July 11, 2012, 09:22 PM
For lower 1/3?

Rogervzv
July 12, 2012, 08:28 PM
Technosavant said:
The magnifier has the nice ability of letting you have either a good CQB rifle or a little bit of magnification if you want to be able to place the shot slightly more precisely. It's not as good as a dedicated scope or an ACOG, but those aren't quite as good as the Aimpoint for rapid target acquisition. Nice glass though (on the ACOGs)... you just need to decide what you're more likely to want with the rifle. If you anticipate closer shots, Aimpoint/magnifier may be the better choice. If you anticipate longer shots or using it for more precision, the scope or ACOG might be better for you.

Sums up my own thinking perfectly. If you are mostly going to shoot distance, a scope or an ACOG. But I like the ability to switch to CQ shooting easily.

sailskidrive
July 13, 2012, 06:24 AM
Check out the new Trijicon SRS as an alternative. As some one else stated, the H1 is like looking through a straw...

madcratebuilder
July 13, 2012, 09:12 AM
Has anyone had any experience with this American Defense absolute cowitness mount?

I have that AD mount and it's a rock. On a newer build so no real long term with it. I have two other AD QD mounts and they are great, AD is my choice other the rest. The tension on the AD mounts is very quick and easy to adjust if you swap optics between platforms.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/AR15/july12build01.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/AR15/july12build02.jpg

Crow Hunter
July 13, 2012, 10:02 AM
Check out the new Trijicon SRS as an alternative. As some one else stated, the H1 is like looking through a straw...

Only if you are doing it wrong.:D

Both eyes open, looking at the target, you should "see through" the housing.

Hey Madcrate, where did you get a kill flash that fits on those?

sailskidrive
July 13, 2012, 11:16 AM
Has anyone had any experience with this American Defense absolute cowitness mount?

Yes, I had it on my H1 and like all of the other ADM mounts I own I've never had any issues with it.

tAKticool
July 13, 2012, 01:04 PM
I have two R-1's (same as yours but the silver color not black color on the outside). I have Daniel Defense mount - which was very price effective at $65-$75 when I bought mine.

I love the mount, rock solid, lower 1/3 co-witness, et al. ONE THING I wish i had done was maybe spent more on a quick-detach mount, so as to have the ability to share the optic or maybe , say I wanted to get a scope optic and use both according to "mission" on my AR, I'd be able to pop off the Aimpoint, put on the scope, then later pop the Aimpoint back on.

But for the price, the Daniel Defense mount is great. FWIW, YMMV of course.

madcratebuilder
July 14, 2012, 07:53 AM
Hey Madcrate, where did you get a kill flash that fits on those?

My red dot is a PA Micro, Primary Arms offers a kill flash for it.

A comment on the PA Micro, I left the red dot on after the last shooting session a week ago. Seven days on it's brightest setting and the battery still had power, it was down but still useable. These come with a no name battery, I think the new Sony battery well have even a better life span, especially if I turn the darn thing off.

The PA has 11 brightness settings, in full mid day sun, setting 7 was more than bright enough. If I moved in to the shade I could go down to 4. The PA has a 2moa dot but at the lower settings it seems smaller than that.

This is the first time I've used a red dot on a rifle. I really like the co-witness with the irons. I killed every milk jug I looked at yesterday with amazing speed. The red dot makes me look like I know what I'm doing:cool:

Crow Hunter
July 14, 2012, 10:54 AM
Ah, gotcha.

I have a PA M4 on my M&P 15 22. I like it pretty good. It really isn't a comparison to the Aimpoint when you look at them side by side. (The PA has much more tint and the dot isn't as "refined" or as bright, but it has been good so far. I left mine on by accident after shooting a pesky squirrel the other day at about 75 yards or so. Didn't drain the battery as bad as I was afraid it would.

They are not the same quality as an Aimpoint but they are excellent of trying out a concept and for range rifles. I would be a little worried about using it "for real".

The guys at Primary Arms are great though. Definitely one of the best around to deal with for anything. I choose them 1st for anything I buy.

Blackops_2
July 15, 2012, 01:37 AM
Larue lower 1/3 as everyone said.

mitranoc
July 15, 2012, 10:05 PM
I appreciate everyones input and advice. Tomorrow I'm ordering the Aimpoint H1 on the Larue LT660 lower 1/3 mount..

Blackops_2
July 16, 2012, 01:37 AM
Just in case this is a better offer, kevin at high caliber sales offers the H1 with the mount for 595$

http://highcalibersales.com/available-items.html

mitranoc
July 16, 2012, 04:25 PM
Blackops_2,
Yes that is a better deal. The one that I was going to purchase was $615.
Thanks for the link...

It doesn't specify on his site whether it's 2 or 4 MOA? Left him a message.

Blackops_2
July 16, 2012, 09:32 PM
Dot is 4 MOA on the Micro's unless they've started putting out 2 MOA ones.

mitranoc
July 16, 2012, 09:39 PM
Yeah Kevin left me a message earlier. Thanks for the heads up though.. I'm still getting a pretty good deal at $615 from the other source, no shipping charge, as well as a magpul DVD boxset. It is a 2 MOA.

raimius
July 16, 2012, 11:09 PM
Non-magnified is good for speed and out to the end of your "ballistic point blank range."
The 3x magnifiers help place those shots better (they compensate for you, not the ballistics.)
Optics with elevation and windage adjustments are really helpful past your ballistic point blank range.

For an example, at 500 yards with an 16in AR shooting 55 grain, zeroed at 50yds, the drop is something like 47 inches. It's not easy to judge 47 inches of drop and wind corrections with a 4 MOA dot only. It's a little bit easier with a magnifier, but only because you can see the target better.

mitranoc
July 17, 2012, 10:36 AM
I like the idea of a RDS, because I always have the option to flip up my MBUS and use them if I want to.

Eventually I will also get a 1-4x scope as well. Until I try an Aimpoint 3x magnifier, I'm not totally sold on them.

sailskidrive
July 18, 2012, 01:16 PM
... or go with a Trijicon SRS instead of an Aim Point.


http://i669.photobucket.com/albums/vv54/sailskidrive/AR15/aa5e0321.jpg

mitranoc
July 21, 2012, 10:52 AM
My new micro 2MOA. Range bound tomorrow to sight it in. The Larue mount seems pretty tight already on the rail. Realistically how tight should it be, as far as cranking the lever down?


http://i626.photobucket.com/albums/tt348/cmitrano1/IMG_8408.jpg
http://i626.photobucket.com/albums/tt348/cmitrano1/IMG_8420.jpg

Blackops_2
July 24, 2012, 02:26 AM
That's up to you really as you can adjust the tension of the screw. I just use it as it comes, though it's extremely snug.