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View Full Version : Buying a heavy hunting LR gun


pabuckslayer08
July 8, 2012, 05:58 PM
Hey guys, havnt been around for awhile but ive been thinking about buying a new rifle and decided I want something for long range and something suitable for a Alaskan adventure. To add to this I want something I can actually shoot at the range without blowing my shoulder apart. I was wanting to get a factory built gun for now but was wanting somthing I can order with a muzzle break. I was looking at the BOSS system from Browning but I know nothing about it and was also seeing that Weatherby makes rifles with a accubreak. They are the only ones I could find. As far as caliber I was looking at the 300wby mag, 300wsm, and 325wsm. Im going to be putting a Nikon Monarch 4x16 on the top that I can buy for 250 at a local store and as a total cost would like to stay under 1600 or so. Can a 400 yard factory rifle be bought for that?

pabuckslayer08
July 8, 2012, 08:40 PM
Leaning to the 300wsm A Bolt with BOSS

PawPaw
July 8, 2012, 08:45 PM
Savage 111 Long Range Hunter (http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/11LONGRANGEHUNTER). One of the calibers it comes in is .300 Win Mag and it's already got a brake. It also comes in some less punishing calibers if you think it will be more of a range gun.

pabuckslayer08
July 9, 2012, 02:26 PM
Nice looking gun, how about a wood stock rifle? Do you know of any wood stocked guns that would suit

taylorce1
July 9, 2012, 05:42 PM
]Alaska is hard on firearms and I'd prefer a coated and synthetic rifle over any others. Today's metal coatings are better at preventing rust than blued metal or stainless steel. The synthetic stocks are more resistant to abuse and weather as well. You can still hunt wit a wood stock if you seal it against moisture.

Where I've hunted in Alaska they get over 200" of rainfall a year. Not to mention it is an island and everything gets exposed to saltwater as well. It is hell on rifles and rust can start in a matter of hours not days. I realize not all of Alaska is like this but it is rugged and your rifle will spend a lot of time getting bounced around by boat or plane, and it can be very rugged country to travel and hunt.

As far as cartridges go I'd be happy with any of thoes as well as many others.

tobnpr
July 9, 2012, 05:52 PM
^^^^
Ditto. Never hunted Alaska, but everything taylorce said mirrors what I've been told. Don't even think about anything other than a synthetic stock, and stainless barreled action. You're gonna get wet...alot.

I'm a Savage fan, but you could also consider a Ruger M77 Hawkeye, either the All-Weather or Alaskan models.

A .416 at 2400 fps and 5,000 lbs. of energy...now that's a rifle!

arizona98tj
July 9, 2012, 06:04 PM
Somehow, the words "heavy" and "hunting", used in the above fashion, wouldn't seem to make the ideal gun that one would be humping around the Alaska bush/countryside (at least they sure seem to be covering a goodly amount of real estate on those Outdoor Channel hunting shows).

pabuckslayer08
July 9, 2012, 06:53 PM
Sorry by heavy I meant a heavy caliber, something for bear, moose, caribou, etc

taylorce1
July 9, 2012, 06:54 PM
Well I guess you answered that questionnaire about "heavy".

pabuckslayer08
July 9, 2012, 06:58 PM
A bolt Stainless Stalker w/ BOSS in 325wsm or 300wsm
http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail.asp?fid=001B&cid=035&tid=008&bg=x

16/116 Bear Hunter 300wsm
http://savagearms.com/firearms/finder/

11/111LR Hunter 300wsm
http://savagearms.com/firearms/models/

I wanted wood but you guys are right on. I have 20 guns laying around with wood stocks and I never take them when its wet, I take my 1 synthetic that I own, And your right its always wet in Alaska/Northern Canada so a synthetic is the way to go

fatwhiteboy
July 9, 2012, 10:06 PM
Get the Marlin SS Guide Gun in .45/70.

pabuckslayer08
July 10, 2012, 02:49 PM
While that would be a ideal caliber, Im leaning for something to reach out 300-500 yards with no issues

tobnpr
July 10, 2012, 03:34 PM
You can always get the Savage threaded for a brake, easy-peasy.
The .300 WM used to have much better ammo selection than the short mag, but I'm guessing that with the popularity of the short mag, that's changed.

But, should be considered unless you're going to be handloading.

The .300WSM is a great round. Planning on doing a long-range target build in that caliber.

gun nut
July 10, 2012, 03:43 PM
The boss brake on the browning works great on the shoulder. Punishing on the ears. I had a 7 mag. (Not recommending that caliber for your alaska gun just stating what i had.) Ear protection would be recommended for a gun with a brake!

pabuckslayer08
July 10, 2012, 08:42 PM
I can believe that. Have an old 30-06 with a 3" break on it and it blows the roof off the range, wouldnt be afraid to let a 3 year old shoot it though. Thats kind of what im going for. Recoil doesnt bother me at all but I want something I can be really good with that comes with a adjustable trigger. Im really leaning to the Browning at this point. It has everything I want, right finish, right break, right calibers etc

pabuckslayer08
July 11, 2012, 06:51 PM
To continue on I know I want to get a Nikon Monarch for on this new gun, but what reticle. Do I go with a regular nikoplex and learn the weapon as far as holdover, do I get the BDC and use the software with the ammo Im going to use or should I get a turret kit which Im not real familar with. I only want to be accurate to 400 yards and I know if I zero a 300wsm at 200 it only drops 3 inches at 300 and another 11 at 400. 11 inches isnt much but thats more than the top of the back shot on some animals. I guess my goal is though to not have a sub moa gun at 400 but rather be able to take a clean shot, so a 6" pie plate on a elk or moose is a good shot. Right now I have a few BDC scopes that I never use the dots and a few regular Nikoplexs I really like, I also found out that Nikons software on holdover is usually within about 2 inches when you plug in all the info

tobnpr
July 11, 2012, 07:30 PM
Custom BDC turrets are nice, no doubt...but you need one for every different type of ammunition you shoot.

If you're only looking to 400 yards with the .300 WM, you should just zero for MPBR, which will be 300-350 yards or so, depending on your bullet/load.

With a mil-dot reticle, it'll be simple enough to hold over for those last few yards if necessary. Hell, you could even do it without a mil-dot reticle because you're only looking at 50-100 yards beyond MPBR and just hold a little high on the critter.

Unless you're going much longer range than 400, custom turrets wouldn't be of much use to you.

pabuckslayer08
July 11, 2012, 07:43 PM
Yea, Thats what I was thinking. I want this gun for the knock down power and just enough to reach out. Even though Id feel comfortable shooting longer when your shooting mountain top to mountain top to much can happen and you never know so thats why Im restraining to a 400 yard max and if need be I can hold over if I get something just a lil further

taylorce1
July 12, 2012, 12:57 AM
As far as scopes go, forget a BDC reticle. You need a scope with repeatable adjustments, and then you will want is a range finder and a Chronograph. 400+ yard shots should never be rushed especially when hunting. If things are done correctly you should have time to range the animal and make necessary scope adjustments. That way you don't holdover, but put the crosshairs exactly where you want the shot to go.

Chronographs are a must if you want to extend your range. Knowing the average velocity of your load along with other variables will help to predict the trajectory accurately. Then the rangefinder along with your trajectory figures will tell you how to adjust the scope in the field. Which in theory should give you a pretty high chance of making that first shot kill beyond 400 yards.

Secondly knock down power doesn't mean a thing at the ranges you are talking about. A well placed shot with any big game cartridge will kill at 400+ yards. Where you need the power since AK was brought up is when things get up close and personal with big bears. Your old .30-06 is plenty adequate to the task of taking any NA game at 400 yards and beyond, but I'm not so sure about an angry bear at 10-20 yards or less.

pabuckslayer08
July 12, 2012, 05:36 AM
So me being new to long range shooting how does the turret system work. I have a good range finder and have access to a good chrono if I decide to go down that path.

taylorce1
July 12, 2012, 11:48 AM
So me being new to long range shooting how does the turret system work. I have a good range finder and have access to a good chrono if I decide to go down that path.***

Depends on the turrets used, the adjust just like adjusting your scope for zeroing. However a good set of turrets that will return to zero are nice but not necessary. Just get a decent scope with finger adjustable turrets or target knobs.

tobnpr
July 12, 2012, 02:04 PM
Custom BDC turrets are laser engraved based on the ballistic data YOU provide the manufacturer, based on the specific load you are shooting.

They are engraved with distance (yardage) rather than moa or mils.

If you range a target at 550 yards, you spin the turret to 550, and squeeze the trigger...

pabuckslayer08
July 12, 2012, 03:51 PM
I just called Nikon and spoke to a rep about the BDC turrets, they seem real appealing to me and my desires. Especially when the exact gun and caliber as well as ammo has been tested and prooved sun moa using them

The Savage rifle is really starting to get ahold of me though, its cheaper, has a fluted barrel, has the stainless, accu trigger, floated barrel/ w accustock, as well as the muzzlebreak all for under 1000. Seems like a no brainer to me, they also make the 325, I know it will kill me in ammo but Cabelas actually runs alot of sales I see for it at 50 bucks a box and the Winchester supremes silvertips are darn near match grade custom ammo. Atleast from my experiance. I really think this gun could be a sub 6 inch gun at 400 yards

pabuckslayer08
July 12, 2012, 05:21 PM
Well heres what im set on

Savage 325wsm Bear Hunter
Leupold rings and bases
Nikon Monarch 3x12x42 w/ custom high turrets to match the load
Nosler Custom ammo 200 gr accubonds
Harris 9-13 inch bipod

tobnpr
July 12, 2012, 07:08 PM
Sounds nice.
I'm not familiar with the range of elevation adjustment on the Monarch, and even so, if you might have designs on reaching out further than 400 at some point you should go with a down-angle base (10 or 20 moa).

I'm a fan (as are most these days) of one-piece picatinny/weaver bases over the older "traditional" two-piece setup.

We're very pleased with EGW's product:
http://swfa.com/EGW-Picatinny-Rail-1-Piece-Scope-Mount-P46208.aspx

jmr40
July 12, 2012, 07:24 PM
The 325 WSM round is all but dead. I would not suggest it. All of the Savage rifles in any WSM chamberings have a 2 round mag capacity. Not a huge Savage fan anyway, but sure wouldn't want one in a WSM.

If I were buying the perfect all around rifle for everything from coyote to brown bear it would be the Winchester Exreme Weather in 300 WSM. It will sell for about $1,100 and leave you $500 for a scope and mounts. I'd put a Leupold VX-2 in 3-9X40 with a long range reticle for $329 in a set of Talley Lightweight mounts ($45). Even with tax you come in under your $1,600 budget.

It will weigh about 8lbs all up. Not too heavy to climb mountains with, not too light for recoil to be a problem, and they are proving to be tackdrivers. You get the best factory synthetic stock, stainless metal and a CRF action for bulletproof performance in any weather.

The 300 WSM ammo can now be found anywhere and it has the trajectory and energy for elk at 600 yards if the shooter is up to it. When loaded with heavy 200 gr+ bullets will take the largest game in North America including the largest bear. When downloaded it can basically duplicate 308 performance and recoil if full power loads are not needed.

pabuckslayer08
July 12, 2012, 08:23 PM
I never was a Savage fan either until someone told me to check this one out. It seems perfect, comes bedded and floated, accu stock, accu trigger, stainless fluted barrel, muzzle break. Has it all in one package

jmr40
July 12, 2012, 08:51 PM
The Winchester has a much better stock, bedded and floated as well, a better trigger, stainless fluted barrel, no annoying muzzle break, greater magazine capacity, 1/2 lb less weight, and a far more reliable, rugged CRF action.

pricedo
July 14, 2012, 12:11 AM
Have a Savage Model 116 Brush Hunter with 18.5" barrel in .375 Ruger.
Accurate as heck with the Hornady PSP 270 grain Superformance ammo and a Leupold Rifleman 3-9x40mm scope mounted with a Burris base and Warne QD mounts.
The rifle is a lot lighter than most guns with this kind of wallop at 7.6 pounds.
This superb rifle costs less than $600.:D

pricedo
July 14, 2012, 12:59 AM
Get the Marlin SS Guide Gun in .45/70.

Got one of them too with a Leupold Rifleman 2-7x33mm on top attached with a rock solid Burris mount and Warne QD rings.
Wild West Guns "Trigger Happy" trigger kit and "Bear Proof" extractor as well as red metal magazine follower installed.
The original Remlin stock gun internals were pretty rough out of the box with machining burrs especially the carrier and needed a lot of polishing and stoning.:mad:
A real fast cycler and accurate shooter now.:D

pabuckslayer08
July 18, 2012, 09:09 PM
I think im going to switch calibers and go for the 338 win mag. Several reasons in the decision and none with ballistics. First is heavier bullet weights in which can be used in Africa or anywhere in the world, next is ammo abundance, I dont reload nor have the desire to, Hornady doesnt make 325 ammo for some reason and the new Hornady Superformance is just as good as a handload as long as your gun likes its, but with GMXs I have yet to find a gun that doesnt like them. Plus Im reading lots of reviews of people shooting them out of the 16/116 getting .5" groups fairly consistantly. I know I may get jumped for not being a handloader, but ever since I started shooting, I buy 8-10 different ammos and try them all out and pick one that works, often times just as good as any handload. Main reason though is costs, I dont shoot one rifle at one weight. I shoot 15 rifles regularly all of a different caliber. I would have 4 grand in good equipment and that will buy alot of ammo so I can spend more time actually shooting.

FiveInADime
July 18, 2012, 10:04 PM
I respect that you are just not interested in handloading and for some people it doesn't make sense. The notion that you would have to spend $4000 to get started handloading for 15 calibers is far-fetched, though. I imagine you shoot some of those rifles more than others though, right? In all of my guns and the guns of family members I have never found a gun that shoots factory ammo of any kind better than tailored handloads.

I don't mean to suggest that you need to start reloading. What you are doing works for you just fine. It just seems you may have some misconceptions about handloading and what it takes to practice it.

There are a lot of guys out there I wouldn't trust to fix me a sandwich that can accomplish loading accurate ammunition on simple equipment.

Sent From My Galaxy S 4g Using Tapatalk

taylorce1
July 18, 2012, 10:31 PM
Yes you can get started reloading for far less than four thousand. There is a ton of quality used equipment out there just like there are quality used rifles. I agree reloading isn't for everyone but it sure doesn't cost anywhere near four grand even if you own fifteen different cartridges.

Scrumbag
July 19, 2012, 07:08 AM
WSMs can be difficult to feed.

My choice would probably be something like a CZ Synthetic in 9.3x62 (which is becoming much more popular) and is a good larger animal calibre.

Put a decent zoom scope on it (2-8x40 something along those lines) and away you go.

pabuckslayer08
July 19, 2012, 06:59 PM
Does anyone actually have any experiance with this Savage gun, I cant find anything on it as far as accuracy but does anyone have any real world experiance with this gun

rezmedic54
July 19, 2012, 08:29 PM
I have the Savage 116 Bear Hunter in 338 Win Mag with the brake on it's like shooting a .308 and it make clover leafs at a 100yds.

pabuckslayer08
July 19, 2012, 08:39 PM
Thats what I like to here, using handoads or a factory ammo?

RC20
July 21, 2012, 12:23 PM
Frankly if you want an all around good caliber for Alaska or African, 30-06 covers the range.

While not optimal, a lot of Grizzly have been shot with that caliber.

Bullet weight range from 150 gr which is good for Caribou (and gives you that longer range you might need) to 220 gr. Most of the rest you will be sub 200 yards (and Moose tend to be much closer than that).

Horandy rounds are loading up to 300 WM area with their new progressive powder loadings.

As for what to get, Alaska range form 200 inches a year to none. If you plan on a lot of hunting and its going to get beat up, then a modern stainless gun with a synthetic stock is a good choice.

However, I have a 1903 Sporter that was used up here from the 40s to the 80s and is in fine shape. Bluing is worn greatly, but no rust.

Ditto a couple of Finnbears.

If recoil is an issue then a good recoil pad tames that, Limbsaver or some such.

pabuckslayer08
July 21, 2012, 01:35 PM
Well its not that recoil is a issue, nor the fact that I have a good 30-06 700 CDL but I want the gun to double as somthing I can shoot at the range at the 400-500 yard bunkers. Not that my 30-06 cant do that but frankly I wont be walking around the Yukon with my 30-06 and a lone sidearm. Many people are saying to go to the 375 and thats just to much, but the 300 and 30-06 are not enough in my mind so Im finding a happy medium with the 338

Buzzcook
July 23, 2012, 01:49 PM
If your shots are going to be longer than 100yds I don't think you need a real big cartridge. While Alaskan game is big a standard round such as the .30-06 will do ok.
The exception is of course big bears close up. Then .338winmag or .375H&H are minimum recommended cartridges.

Short Magnums cost a lot and they don't give enough advantage over regular magnum loads.imho.
Another large cartridge you might look at is the .35Whelen.


Another rifle to consider is the Tikka T3 laminated stainless.
http://www.tikka.fi/t3models.php?laminatedss

It gives you a wood stock that's more durable than straight walnut and prettier than plastic. It also comes in cartridges that fit your description.

Bart B.
July 25, 2012, 07:54 AM
Regarding those Bullet Drop Compensators on rifle scopes, they only work at one altitude in one set of atmospheric conditions and have to be matched to the actual measured muzzle velocity and actual BC's for the bullet used. All of which means that for the most part, they get less accurate as range increases and shooting conditions change.

'Course if you're OK with a 1 or 2 MOA error at 600 yards, then get one.

pabuckslayer08
July 25, 2012, 03:53 PM
Actually yea i am ok with that, Im going to be shooting big game at those ranges and trying to ring 9 inch gongs, not shoot out a terrorists eye

FiveInADime
July 25, 2012, 04:51 PM
Regarding those Bullet Drop Compensators on rifle scopes, they only work at one altitude in one set of atmospheric conditions and have to be matched to the actual measured muzzle velocity and actual BC's for the bullet used. All of which means that for the most part, they get less accurate as range increases and shooting conditions change.

'Course if you're OK with a 1 or 2 MOA error at 600 yards, then get one.

That's why I have Strelok on my phone. Those extra aiming points can't hurt once you know how to use them in your rifle with you're loads.

Sent From My Galaxy S 4g Using Tapatalk

taylorce1
July 26, 2012, 07:02 AM
That's why I have Strelok on my phone. Those extra aiming points can't hurt once you know how to use them in your rifle with you're loads

Having ballistics programs on your phone is all good until your battery dies or the phone gets damaged afield. You are better off working up a range card for the area you'll be hunting or shooting in and laminating it to your stock than relying on a electronic device to tell you your dope. Smartphones are handy at the range but don't rely on them too much IMO especially in the field.

FiveInADime
July 26, 2012, 09:55 AM
Having ballistics programs on your phone is all good until your battery dies or the phone gets damaged afield. You are better off working up a range card for the area you'll be hunting or shooting in and laminating it to your stock than relying on a electronic device to tell you your dope. Smartphones are handy at the range but don't rely on them too much IMO especially in the field.

Seriously? I manage to keep my phone charged and safe every single day. Why would I not rely on it in the field? I archery hunt in the mountains of Northern Arizona nearly every year hiking several hard miles every day and I always have my phone with me and it has never magically broken or had the battery drain faster than normal. This is a silly argument. Just because you don't trust technology doesn't mean that I can't. Don't you use a rangefinder? What happens when that thing breaks or goes dead? Those things have short warranties for a reason.

A dope card is a good idea but I am relatively young and I can remember my holdover because I shoot my rifles all the time from 100-500 yards. Strelok just has a nice feature that shows all kinds of different reticles with your ballistic info input into it.

Sent From My Galaxy S 4g Using Tapatalk

mnhntr
July 26, 2012, 10:02 AM
Savage Long Range Hunter

ltc444
July 26, 2012, 06:02 PM
Ditto on the 338 Win. I have a Mod 70 in that caliber. Unfortunately, I cannot shoot full bore loads due to a shoulder injury. So I now shoot 160 grain reloads for white tail.

good luck on your hunt.

taylorce1
July 26, 2012, 09:09 PM
Seriously? I manage to keep my phone charged and safe every single day. Why would I not rely on it in the field? I archery hunt in the mountains of Northern Arizona nearly every year hiking several hard miles every day and I always have my phone with me and it has never magically broken or had the battery drain faster than normal. This is a silly argument. Just because you don't trust technology doesn't mean that I can't. Don't you use a rangefinder? What happens when that thing breaks or goes dead? Those things have short warranties for a reason.

It isn't that I don't trust technology I use it every day, however I've spent most of my adult life in the military and it is good to have backup skills. I've seen too many people that don't know what to do when the technology fails them. I carry a GPS but I carry as well a map and compass when I hunt unfamiliar territory. Never had the map or simple compass fail but your can't always rely on a GPS to work. Murphy happens and just because you say it hasn't ever happened yet to you that is fine but it doesn't hurt to have a backup plan.

If you remember or read the OP's original post he wants a rifle that can be used in AK big difference from the climate in AZ. Brown bear and moose hunting is usually done in some of the wettest areas of Alaska. Quality optics and rifles usually fare better than electronics in this environment. I have hunted SE Alaska where it rains over 200" a year and ziplock bags are your best friend for phones, but stuff happens and you can easily damage a cell phone.

Not to mention you could be days from ever getting your phone recharged. If you stay out in the bush you'll be lucky to have a power source to charge a cell phone at some camps. You can always carry batteries, but you might have to save weight because you are flying into the bush. Or you might want to leave your cell phone behind because it won't work anyway and rent a satellite phone for emergencies instead.

Technology is great and I'll continue to use it, but sometimes simple things work just as well if not better.

FiveInADime
July 26, 2012, 09:59 PM
It isn't that I don't trust technology I use it every day, however I've spent most of my adult life in the military and it is good to have backup skills. I've seen too many people that don't know what to do when the technology fails them. I carry a GPS but I carry as well a map and compass when I hunt unfamiliar territory. Never had the map or simple compass fail but your can't always rely on a GPS to work. Murphy happens and just because you say it hasn't ever happened yet to you that is fine but it doesn't hurt to have a backup plan.

If you remember or read the OP's original post he wants a rifle that can be used in AK big difference from the climate in AZ. Brown bear and moose hunting is usually done in some of the wettest areas of Alaska. Quality optics and rifles usually fare better than electronics in this environment. I have hunted SE Alaska where it rains over 200" a year and ziplock bags are your best friend for phones, but stuff happens and you can easily damage a cell phone.

Not to mention you could be days from ever getting your phone recharged. If you stay out in the bush you'll be lucky to have a power source to charge a cell phone at some camps. You can always carry batteries, but you might have to save weight because you are flying into the bush. Or you might want to leave your cell phone behind because it won't work anyway and rent a satellite phone for emergencies instead.

Technology is great and I'll continue to use it, but sometimes simple things work just as well if not better.

I suppose, in that situation you're referring to, a cell-phone might be something to leave behind. I have never used Strelok on the fly for hunting, anyways. It's just a good tool when you're out practicing at long distance to get a grip on where your bullet is going to land.

I just thought it was narrow minded to suggest that a smart phone was too fragile for the field.

Like you, I carry a map, compass, ribbon, ect. In my pack because I hunt in wilderness pretty often and like to CMA. I also carry GPS batteries cause that thing is a lot handier when you're tromping through brush looking for a far out bit of water or something like that.

Like I said a dope card is nice but you can only put so much info on it. I have never had a chance to use a ballistic computer in the field, but I am glad I have that option.

Sent From My Galaxy S 4g Using Tapatalk

pabuckslayer08
July 27, 2012, 05:36 AM
Im fairly young and have a pretty good memory I had every intent of memorizing the ballistics to match my scope, Im pretty good at math as well. After looking at my ballistics for a little but I can judge out ot 500 pretty easily. Little different than 800+ but I think 400-500 I can manage

pricedo
August 1, 2012, 01:39 PM
posted by rezmedic54: I have the Savage 116 Bear Hunter in 338 Win Mag with the brake on it's like shooting a .308 and it make clover leafs at a 100yds.

Likewise with my Savage 116 Alaskan Brush Hunter in .375 Ruger with a Leupold 3-9x40mm scope mounted on Warne QD rings and a solid Burris base in regards to clover leafs.
My gun isn't ported so you know it big time when you pull the Accutrigger.