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View Full Version : Can a Morgan Pad change your pattern


TheKlawMan
June 17, 2012, 12:52 PM
Can an adjustable butt pad, such as a Morgan Pad, be used to change the distribution of pellets vis a vis its center, such as 70/30? I would think not, unless you change your cheek weld so that you see more rib.

zippy13
June 17, 2012, 04:10 PM
My friend, you have the geometry figured out correctly. I think there may be a monte carlo stock in your future. Or, talk with Mike at http://www.shockmaster.com/ about one of his units.

Al Den
June 17, 2012, 04:29 PM
Is the question really "can a Morgan pad change your pattern's CENTER/Point of Impact"? It sure can effect it. Will it change the "pattern" itself? As in 70% of shot within a 30" circle at 36-yards? How could it possibly!?

TheKlawMan
June 17, 2012, 07:03 PM
Al, I am asking about this post made on another thread:

if morgen pads with the cearved rubber pad on my shotguns. now i can adjust the shot pattern to 70-30 over center and that works for me.

I wouldn't think that an adjustable pad should raise or lower the point of impact, as I don't see how it would change the relative angle of a rib to a barrel nor do I beleive its use would raise or lower the eye in relation to the top of the rib.

eastbank
June 17, 2012, 08:38 PM
they work for me, i have them on a rem 11-87 and a rem 870TB,as my BT 100 has a adjustable comb i don,t have one on it. your head is the rear sight on a shotgun,if you lower it the poi goes down and if you raise it the poi goes up. the difference for me is plus 2-3 birds over no morgen pad . with the pads i shoot 95-97,with out it i,m a 93-95 shooter. your mileage may very. eastbank.

Al Den
June 17, 2012, 10:36 PM
Your shoulder/head/cheekweld/eye/bead(s) positions will change as you raise or lower the pad every notch even if you fight to counter it. Typically they are used to effectively increase the drop so we have more than the toe of the stock on our shoulder, LOL.

Yes, an effective Monte Carlo stock in many respects EXCEPT we are not changing the head alignment so much relative to the rib and bead(s) by raising it as we are lowering the shoulder rest.

No matter what, it will effect your shooting.

TheKlawMan
June 18, 2012, 01:45 AM
I think I follow you, Al. The reason I asked is that I have a long neck and am shooting a skeet gun for trap, in which I stand rather erect. As Zippy and some know from other threads, I am considering adding an adjustable pad so that I won't have to do shrug so hard in order to drop the butt pad further down onto my shoulder.

I believe a Morgan Pad or someting like a 100 Straight would enable me to shoot without such an exrteme shrug (as it basically would convert my parallel stock to a monte carlo.)

I still don't understand why the use of an Adjustable Pad ('AP") would cause my dominant eye to rise or lower in relation to the rib. An Adjustable Comb ("AC") would do that.

That assumes that I keep my head on the stock. If my shrug slips as I tire all sorts of bad things can happen. I may simply not have my head down on the comb or I may not realize that I am canting my head or the gun in order to get down on it.

Soory if this doesn't make sense or I seem contentious.

BigJimP
June 18, 2012, 11:13 AM
With all due respect here buddy ....you're trying to find a cheap way to adjust the point of impact vs going to an adj comb for $ 350 ....which is what you really need / by trying to get there with an adj recoil pad - that I don't think is going to work.

You can shoot Trap just fine with the gun you have .... if your current Citori XS Skeet model is giving you a 50% / 50% pattern over the point of impact....then you have to "cover" the bird vs "floating the bird" like most guys want to do for Trap.

Shrugging into the gun ...is a different fundamental issue / and usually it has more to do with your fundamental mount on a gun where the comb is too low ...or maybe the length of pull is too short ..or maybe a little of both ....and shrugging into the gun (will cause all kinds of issues ...limiting your swing, causing shoulder fatigue, etc ) ....but trying to eliminate it by mounting an adj butt pad..is the wrong way to go about it in my view.

The shrugging might be able to be fixed by mounting the gun at home 15 times an evening ...in front of a full length mirror ...and using the old "square meal approach" ...push the gun away from you - by almost fully extending your arms ...then move straight up ...then move straight back to your shoulder and your cheek should meet the comb ..( and you don't shrug into the comb or crouch - shrug into the whole gun ). Keep your eyes open as you do this drill and you can watch your shoulders relax ..and just bring the gun to you. You should feel the tension drain away in your shoulders ...vs the cramping in your neck / or accross the top of your shoulders you may be feeling now. Don't over do it ....but 15 times in one session per eveing ...and then do it 4 or 5 evenings a week....I suspect you'll see a difference.

zippy13
June 18, 2012, 11:33 AM
TKM, our friend, Big Jim is right on point. If you don't want to spend $350 on a stock experiment, try adding some moleskin to your stock and see what happens. As you well know, the way you've been shooting, with half the butt pad above your shoulder, is not the best way to enjoy your shotgun.

http://www.drscholls.com/img/products/MoleskinPlusPadding_med.png

TheKlawMan
June 18, 2012, 11:50 AM
Here I am innocent, Jim. Not of being tight with the money, but trying to circumvent the cost of an adjustable butt pad to do the job of an adjustable comb.

I only asked about this because of the claim on anoher thread that a morgan pad can be used to lower or raise your poi. I don't think it would since, as I understand it, the height of the comb in relation to the rib remains constant, whereas with an AC you change the relative heights. There may be some incidental effect, as everything is codependent and has some effect on shot making, but I wouldn't expect much.

Zippy, Actually I have tried moleskin and still have some in my range bag. I only experimented with it for a few weeks, but it did seem to raise my poi. How much, there are too many possible factors to say from just shooting and I would have to pattern it.

BigJimP
June 18, 2012, 01:26 PM
Ok, my apologies....I thought you were just being " cheap " ... ( a valid assumption - based on your history my friend ...) ;)

I still think the drill in front of a mirror is a good idea ...( so you aren't scrunched in there ....like a starving guy trying to protect his sandwich from a flock of hovering birds ) ....as a buddy of mine often says about guys with gun mounts like that....

TheKlawMan
June 18, 2012, 01:56 PM
I do check myself in the mirror, but don't do the drills repetitively as I should. A good football helps.

340 Weatherby
June 18, 2012, 02:39 PM
Klawman, time for you, Jason and I to go gun shopping!

BigJimP
June 18, 2012, 03:25 PM
See........what he said ...!! / and pick up a nice Browning Citori XT in 32" barrels and the adj comb ....

82088 Here are my pair of XT's ....both nice guns !

...a man cannot live with only one Browning Citori ....I mean, he can, but why would he...( look at Slugo, he's probably cut down to only 8 or 10 and look how miserable he is ) ....

TheKlawMan
June 18, 2012, 03:30 PM
340. First Jason and I will have to get you out to the trap range. We are doing it Wed if you can make it. As for buying antother gun, as is I am getting ready to drop enough on the one I have to pay for 3 of the 870's that you first saw me try to hit doubles with.

TheKlawMan
June 18, 2012, 03:33 PM
See........what he said ...!! / and pick up a nice Browning Citori XT in 32" barrels and the adj comb ....

You are going to get me in trouble! Actually, the thought had crossed my dehydrated mind more than once.

Al Den
June 18, 2012, 07:31 PM
Actually, tho the guys are sorta correct, I DO think the Morgan pad will bring the gun up to where it should be. Sorry, the rib and sights are already aligned with the stock. The raised stock in small fractions of an inch with a huge POI change is not the same as getting the gun up to position with your long neck. You want the Morgan (machined aluminum -- they used to cast them). And, there's another factor...

As indicated the skeet gun is for skeet. A Trap gun is unique also as alluded to. Raising the comb a hair would help for Trap. But not your shooting position much. Does your gun have double beads? If not, when you install the pad, install the smallest mid-bead on the rib. You'll not only have two settings on the pad -- one for skeet (and everything else) and another for Trap -- but in skeet you will want to align the beads and for Trap you'll STACK them. the latter means bird over front bead over mid bead; you'll be a AAA Trap shooter in no time.

Now THAT's cheap. But actually what you need to do if you aren't replacing the barrel or rib with a Trap-specific configuration as you add an adjustable comb stock at the same time. In other words, your intuition and common sense were RIGHT ON!

TheKlawMan
June 18, 2012, 08:26 PM
Thanks Al. It's not really intutition. These guys have beaten this stuff into my hard head. The gun I shoot has a mid bead; Citori XS Skeet that I got to use as my all purpose clays gun.

Ricklin
June 23, 2012, 02:38 PM
I am a fan of the Morgan pad, it will change your gun's fit, or can change your gun's fit. It will not change your POI or distribution. I like the curved butt as I get a more consistent mount.

Cabela's sells a comb raising kit by a company called either Bearclaw or Beartooth.

The comb raising kit is cheap and effective. It's a neoprene sleeve that fits tightly over your buttstock. The kit comes with a selection of closed cell foam pads of differing thickness's. The pad of course goes between the sleeve and the top of your comb. A thicker pad raises the POI a thinner one lowers it.

I used one of these on my CD Diamond 3 O/U for a year or so. It worked great. I removed it from the Daly when I started shooting my M12 for trap. I put a real adjustable comb on my M12.

The comb raising kit is great, esp. if your shotgun is an all around gun, you can remove it for the field, and put it back on for shooting clays, esp. trap.

No affiliation with the company etc, just a happy customer. It's hard to beat for the 20 or so dollars they charge for it.

Al Den
June 23, 2012, 06:16 PM
Putting your head further up or back on the stock, angling your head differently, putting cheek higher or lower, a full moon the night before... Can all change your point of impact. But not a Morgan Pad? Really!? Maybe not like raising or lowering the comb, but...