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View Full Version : Being new to the world of 03 c&r what should I concentrate on getting right away


ronz
May 10, 2012, 11:51 PM
while the prices are still at what should be there lowest?
For the best buy list I’m thinking I should get a Walther p-1, 1895 Russian Nagant revolver, 91-30 and a 91-30 sniper also not what I think of as c&r but a cz 82 appears to be a really good gun for cheap
still on the fence on the 82 but did get a p-64 so already have 9x18 ammo and its cheap to shoot
the 91-30’s should be cheap for a while but I want a sniper my thinking is there will be less of a supply of them so should get it soon and not wait for some awesome sale and miss the boat or do they just slap a repo scope on an old rifle and call it a sniper?
http://www.southernohiogun.com/longguns-2/surplus-longguns/91-30-russian-sniper-1.html
Think I missed the bottom of the ttc/tt-33 (well all the 7.62x25’s) but think there only going to go up in price and just got my first tokerav (Romanian ttc ) and love it don’t usually get duplicate guns but my wife also likes it so going to get her a polish one and put a compensator on it for her
also ordered a cz-52 so just need to stock up on ammo before it’s all gone
Ammo prices are also important I like shooting old guns not collecting them so shootably is more important to me than matching # I do reload
Did I miss any of the really good deals going on now ?

noelf2
May 11, 2012, 06:19 AM
Sounds like you have a good plan. Most mosin snipers are regular 9130s cut and tapped for a pu scope. Not worth it as a collector IMHO.

Don P
May 11, 2012, 08:16 AM
Stay within your price range and budget. No need losing the house for a C&R collection.:eek:

ronz
May 11, 2012, 08:59 AM
Budget what’s a budget:eek:
Ya that’s the hard part especially for anyone as cheap as I am
20 to get 1 gun shipped but can get 3 for 30 ill save $40 over the long run so have to get 3 at a time
And the prices are sooo good compared to what I am used to seeing
And still kicking myself for not getting the dragonov when I had the chance 20 years ago
But at least the safe is full so need to sell something to make room for anything new;)

gyvel
May 11, 2012, 10:09 AM
I wouldn't waste my time with a Mosin sniper.

Baba Louie
May 12, 2012, 03:05 PM
Ammo prices are also important... Yessiree they are. Back in '86 when I first bought my Swedish Mauser, it cost me $70 OTD w/ ammo running $25/box of 20. I was like... :eek:

I learn... :D

Nowadays try finding milsurp ammo cheap! (Hah) .303 or 8mm, .30-06 or even 7.62x39, it all dries up eventually.

Buy a Finn in 7.62x54r if it's an accurate MN you're after. And a few thousand rounds of ammo for it. (tho you'll do better with reloads or new factory fodder I suspect)

K31 and some GP11. Get one (or two) now! Ammo. Stock up.

Any old .22lr will be affordable to feed. There are a lot of them on the C&R list. My Dad loved the old Winchester 90s and 06 pumps for good reason.

Do the CMP thing and get a Garand. Or anything they offer.

That 03 license can kill your bank account because you save so much money, let me tell you... why... do you know how much it would cost to manufacture a K31 nowadays?... ;)

ronz
May 12, 2012, 08:09 PM
My first was a 6.5 carcano from a pawn shop for $25
it cost more for a box of bullets than the gun
Was looking at the M28/76 but switched to the 91-30 sniper
Luckily for my bank account all the M28/76 are sold out

amx4080
May 13, 2012, 09:21 AM
I wouldn't waste my time with a Mosin sniper.

Not the repo's anyway. A real one, sure, if it's in the budget.

ronz
May 13, 2012, 01:43 PM
The real 91-30 snipers go for about $800 right?

johnwilliamson062
May 13, 2012, 11:35 PM
K31. K31. K31. They are going to rocket up in price over the next few years.

madcratebuilder
May 14, 2012, 07:21 AM
The prices on mil-surps is not going to decrease. I've seen a 400-1500% increase in my lifetime, and it well probably continue.

Buy the best you can afford. Pick a area or type and concentrate on it, become knowledgeable about them. You need to learn what is common and what is rare so if you see a deal you can jump on it.


ETA: +1 on what John said. K's are still priced low, they well double rather quickly. Ten years ago they were $75, six years ago $175, today $250-300.

This is better than bank interest, but only keeps up with inflation.

bumnote
May 14, 2012, 10:43 AM
I'm biased towards my favorites...K-31's and Swedish M38's. Neither was made in extremely large numbers around 500K for the K-31's and around 70-80K for the M38's. Both are as accurate and well made as people say they are and reloading for them is cheap and easy. Swedish Mausers are extremely well made and the 6.5x55 is a pleasure to shoot. I've ended up buying 3 in the last year...a M96, M38 and CG63.
I'd also look at Swedish M96's and M1917's. With the prices of '03 and Garands going up faster and faster, and M1 Cabines being ridiculously high, I think it's a safe bet at some point the M1917's will follow and being 30-06 finding ammo would never be a problem.

johnwilliamson062
May 14, 2012, 10:27 PM
I'd first buy an ok K31, then buy a shooter of all you can afford, then see what you like and concentrate on it.

ronz
May 15, 2012, 12:47 AM
Going to have to check out the k-31 I want something real accurate with iron sights
I just had back surgery so have been avoiding rifles and mostly concentrating on pistols
But starting to think I will be able to take the recoil again soon so the k-31 sounds perfect
I just remember what the m-44 and k-98’s were going for a few years back
But hunting stuff was more important than collecting was
and figured I would get them eventually
But missed the boat supply dried up and the prices skyrocketed
It seems like the newest supply release for pistols and best prices are on the p-64 and cz82 but there too new so not a lot of interest for me even though I did pick up a couple of p-64’s for me and the wife
I think that anything chambered for 7.62x25 and the p1-38 supply is drying up and is going to jump up in price soon so picked up a Romanian ttc and have a cz52 on order with czeckpoint I just love the tokerav round and the ttc
also was just offered a cz 57 for my marlin papoose supposed to make the trade on Thursday
Btw I have a lot of .40 brass if anyone wants it? If you live anywhere close to Milwaukee ill hold on to it until we can meet up otherwise after you get it if you would just PayPal me back for the shipping
just pm me

CWKahrFan
May 15, 2012, 07:04 AM
My refurbished CZ82 is one of my favorites.

johnwilliamson062
May 15, 2012, 08:34 PM
nagant revolvers. They are the most interesting C&R surplus.

ronz
May 15, 2012, 11:15 PM
There both on my short list
Even though I don’t consider a cz 82 the same as other old c&r guns
It’s such a great deal I can’t pass it up
when I received the p-64’s I wish that I would have ordered a cz82 instead of one of the p-64’s
but the new trigger springs should be here by the end of the week for them
they are accurate enough so once I get the springs in they should be pretty nice
but don’t think they will be as nice as a cz-82
But should have both the cz-82 and nagant soon just need to sell something first :( just don’t know what I like everything I have left
did break into the savings for a 380 cz-24 supposed to be in good shape with 85% bluing no import marks add didn’t say anything about military acceptance marks but the guy selling it thought it was a bring back some scratches but looked good from the pictures I got it for $340
I think I did pretty good on it

ronz
May 16, 2012, 01:00 AM
I was thinking about getting the nagant revolver locally
does cabalas or gander mountain accept 03 c&r so I wouldn’t have to pay for the background check?
I can cross the state line now so could even get it from bass pro if they ever have them on sale

jsmaye
May 16, 2012, 08:08 AM
...There both on my short list
Even though I don’t consider a cz 82 the same as other old c&r guns...

You might then consider the lupine sexiness of the CZ vz52 -
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g38/jsmaye/Firearms/CZ%20vz-52/09030309-cropped-shrunk.jpg

CWKahrFan
May 16, 2012, 08:55 AM
You're hip to this site right?:

http://www.classicfirearms.co/

Those chrome TTC Tokarevs interest me...

I like my cz52 and my Zastava M57 a lot.

(Walther P38's always interesting too...)

Grant D
May 16, 2012, 01:46 PM
I picked up a Walther P-1 at Gander Mountain for $275.00 It's a good shooter,and a good start for a collection.
I also have a 1917 DWM luger and a 1941 Walther P-38. I'm in the process of getting a 1940 Walther PP with matching numbers on the magazine.
Once you get the bug you can't stop! lol

Winchester_73
May 16, 2012, 02:49 PM
I also have a 1917 DWM luger and a 1941 Walther P-38. I'm in the process of getting a 1940 Walther PP with matching numbers on the magazine.
Once you get the bug you can't stop! lol

I agree with getting stuff like that. If you buy good stuff, you can always get your money back. I have yet to use mine for a modern imported milsurp. I use mine for pre war S&Ws and Colts and WWI/WWII guns. While they're not very cheap, at least your money is in a safe place. Of course the argument can be made that any decent milsurp such as a mosin or a CZ 52 for example, will be harder to find and sought after someday, but then where will be the stuff that's harder to find and sought after presently?

Winchester_73
May 16, 2012, 02:53 PM
Any old .22lr will be affordable to feed. There are a lot of them on the C&R list.

Just so we are all on the same page here: the C&R list DOES NOT include all of the C&R guns. A C&R is any gun over 50 yrs old (that meets originality criteria). So any 22, made on or before 1962 is game. The list is more for guns that may not fall under the 50 yr umbrella. In addition to 1890s and 1906s, most 61s, 62s, 63s, and many other Winchesters fall under it. Remember, 50 yr old + original = C&R.

Now of course, if the barrel is cut, and the gun is re-chambered, or other major alterations, then it will not fall under C&R classification.

ronz
May 16, 2012, 05:43 PM
I picked up a Walther P-1 at Gander Mountain for $275.00 Grant did they accept your c&r or did you have to pay for the background check and have the waiting period?
Ordered the vz-52 about two weeks ago but czeck point is very slow
But they had it listed on their site when I ordered they were running a couple of weeks behind
The chromed ttc’s are sharp hard choice between the polish or the chromed one but have a Romanian one and if I trade for a CZ-57 tomorrow think I will be good on the tokerav’s at least for a while

ronz
May 16, 2012, 11:59 PM
Here is what I acquired so far
On the left is a Romanian ttc and the 2 p-64’s
Right is an Arminus 22 and a P-1
The cz-24 in the center is my fathers
http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt263/ronzxcvb/100_1124.jpg

Not technically a C&R a PPS43c a ww2 soviet smg remade to fire in semi auto is more of what I think of when I say c&r
(I took off the folding stock seeing its illegal to unfold it was just extra weight the plate is to mount a laser)

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt263/ronzxcvb/100_1121.jpg

akguy1985
May 17, 2012, 07:41 AM
I would start with the swiss rifles. I remember back in 05-06 they were $100 at the gunshow all day long. now they are $300

ks_wayward_son
May 17, 2012, 12:34 PM
Reading a recent article from Shotgun News, within the next couple of years or so the Russians are going to be destroying around 4 million (could have been more) milsurp firearms to provide more jobs for the populace in the arsenals. Mosins, Nagant pistols, Tokarevs, SKS's and the like are to be on the list. That would definitely have some bearing on price and availability in the future, I would think. Within the last year, I noticed how the 91/30's are starting to hike already. A few years ago, I bought a hex receiver for 79. Now they are 100. Also the round receivers are going up also. The hex is a Tula, I still need to get me an Izzy just cuz. Therefore, I would get the Russians while you can. As a matter of fact, I've been putting off the Nagant pistol for a long while and I might just have to buckle down and shell out the excessive 100 bucks or so. :rolleyes:

ronz
May 17, 2012, 02:44 PM
Read that also next time I see a sale on either one I’m going to get it
Just hope I don’t wait to save $10 and miss the good prices completely

ronz
May 24, 2012, 01:47 AM
Just got the cz-24 today
I am one happy camper :D
First thing I noticed was a small area of rust on the barrel struck me as kind of odd as the gun appeared to be freshly cleaned and oiled
10 seconds with a brass brush or steel wool spot would be gone then I notice some deeper small gashes spots scratches however you would refer to them
Then it sinks in they look like shrapnel hits so the spot on the barrel was probably intentionally left that way because it was a shrapnel hit :eek:
Slide still has most of the bluing on it and the inside of the barrel is perfect it gun looks almost new
Another thing is some marks on the left grip don’t quite look like it was a mistake in manufacturing
What do you think?
http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt263/ronzxcvb/cz240583.jpg
http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt263/ronzxcvb/cz24056.jpg

jsmaye
May 24, 2012, 08:59 AM
We all like to think that the nicks, dings, and scars on our milsurps are all "combat damage" from the heat of battle, even to the point where some wag their fingers disapprovingly at those who wish to do some restoration. I think most of it is just from clumsy handling from tired, cold, careless, (and in old Eastern Bloc countries, drunk) personnel.

ronz
May 24, 2012, 09:50 AM
Hard to tell from a picture but I circled what I was thinking were shrapnel hits
Not all the scratches just a few really deep gouges
No proof but this should be a ww2 bring back
http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt263/ronzxcvb/cz240552circled.jpg

Grant D
May 24, 2012, 10:04 AM
ronz: All I had to do was hand them the money,fill out the form, and walk out the door with it.
Now with my CHL license it takes even less time to buy a firearm.

ronz
June 7, 2012, 04:40 AM
Picked up a rifle last night Ishapore 2a in 308 the PO referred to it as an Enfield 4 is it the same thing?
All the metal parts were painted PO said he thought it was from an arsenal refinish He wanted to strip and reblue it. I have only done a little researching on it so far I wanted to get it to the range more than to learn about it. But from what I read so far it should have been issued painted originally
I would also like to put on a rear ring sight
It was made in 1967 so don’t think these have a lot of historical significance that tapping the receiver would be a big NO NO
So think I’m going to drill and tap the receiver for the sight to get the longer sight radius
Rather than just replacing the rear sight with an aftermarket rig

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt263/ronzxcvb/002.jpg
http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt263/ronzxcvb/010.jpg

kilimanjaro
June 7, 2012, 11:18 PM
Definitely the Swiss and Swedish for appreciation, they will go nowhere but up. Also pick up a couple of the nicest Mosin-Nagants you can find, one in WWII date and one pre-1937, just for fun. The M44 Mosin-Nagant carbine is a desireable rifle, hard to find now. Get a Nagant pistol or two, they are cheap and won't drop in price. Be sure to get the Lee-Enfield SMLE and No. 4, and a real No. 5 if you can find one. Get the best condition you can afford the day you buy one. Don't forget the MI rifle and carbine, 03A3, and of course any K98 Mauser in matching condition, and be sure to pick up a Russian Capture K98, they came on the market and disappeared, always popular.

troopcom
June 8, 2012, 02:29 PM
K31. K31. K31. They are going to rocket up in price over the next few years.


I agree! K31, K31, K31 that should be your first purchase! IMO.

ronz
June 9, 2012, 03:23 AM
I thought there was going to be a k-31 when I went to trade he brought like 7 rifles but no k-31 he had a Swedish 7.5 in really nice shape that I almost got instead of the 308 but he wanted $400 for it and I honestly had no idea about how much they went for or anything about them we did a straight up trade for the 308 ($250) so didn’t have to add anything and already have everything for 308
but I have a spot reserved in the safe reserved for a k-31 that’s one reason I almost got the Swedish 7.5 figuring I would get the k-31 so would need to get the 7.5 dies anyways but there is a gun show next weekend so if I don’t find one there I will probably order one

kilimanjaro
June 9, 2012, 07:23 PM
A good Swedish Mauser runs about $300-$400 up here, depending on condition and the seller's immediate need for money. Getting harder to find, that's for certain.

ronz
June 10, 2012, 02:36 AM
The Swedish was in excellent condition
When I first saw the Ishapore was like :eek:ewe is that thing butt ugly and looks like crap
but when I learned that it was originally chambered for 308, had a chrome lined bore shot good and the recoil wasn’t bad it kinda grew on me
I can’t wait to tear it down and start fixing it up
I have been busy so haven’t had a lot of time to read up on it but from what I have so far I think the crappy finish that looks like it was put on a dirty muddy rifle with a can of spray paint might be original so it’s a perfect candidate to try my first paint job on even if I totally f it up it will probably still look better than when brand new
But I really want some new sights they had some rear peep sights something like this in a clearance bin at the lgs
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/326669/williams-5d-smle-receiver-peep-sight-british-lee-enfield-nos-1-4-and-5-aluminum-black?cm_vc=S014
will probably get something like this also if it will work
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/504955/lyman-globe-front-target-sight-17aeu-464-height-360-dovetail-steel-blue?cm_vc=S015326669

Ignition Override
June 12, 2012, 12:11 AM
ronz:
If you have any real interest in WW2, and it can fit your budget, a Service Grade Garand from the CMP.

Other than that, either the Swiss K-31 or if another Enfield appeals to you, a #4/Mk.1.
Hopefully you have access to a gun shows or shops with a milsurp selection, where you can check the rifling/bore condition with a bore light etc.

Maybe later, to shoot about the lowest-priced modern (non-corr.) centerfire ammo, how about a Russian SKS, which has the chrome-lined bore (as with Chinese) and the blade bayonet?

whitefeathersniper
June 14, 2012, 11:14 AM
When I first got mine, I was going for an example or a little of everything.

Kentucky-75
June 14, 2012, 11:26 AM
SKS's used to be a good deal. Back in 2002 a Yugo SKS was selling for $99 at Centerfire Systems in Versailles KY. Today I see the SKS going for $250 and even higher.

gandog56
June 14, 2012, 03:35 PM
I wouldn't waste my time with a Mosin sniper.

I would.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/Gandog56/SAgroup.jpg

ronz
June 15, 2012, 01:03 AM
The ww2 guns interest me the most just thinking about what they have been through and where then it would be cold war soviet stuff
But that being said I’m also a stickler for accuracy if it isn’t accurate I won’t take it to the range and will just end up a safe queen and getting my c&r really devastated my bank account so until I start selling off some stuff I’m just looking for trades now and the next rifle will depend on how the Ishapor turns out
If it’s not accurate enough for me the next rifle will be a k-31 if it is may wait for a deal on a k-31 a Garand or something from ww2
I have wanted a Garand for years but price always kept me from getting one was thinking about getting the CMP special in 308 hindsight being 20/20 probably should have got the Garand first but spent a lot more than I planned on
Thinking that the soviet pistols were the best deals going on now and very limited space for any more rifles and I am just in love with the 7.62x25 picked up a TTC, M-57, CZ-52 think that’s all of them besides for the sub machineguns converted to semi auto also got a couple of makarov’s P-63 & CZ-82

Nice shot group gandog
How many yards was that shot at?

gandog56
June 16, 2012, 10:18 PM
Being new to the world of 03 c&r what should I concentrate on getting right away

A bigger bank account?

ronz
June 17, 2012, 12:05 AM
I would have just bought more expensive stuff and would still be broke
Picked this up today traded a bow for it. A .32 Beretta bring back
I had some doubts about it being a bring back because of the alloy frame and It’s stamped made in Italy
After the trade he told me all he knew was that his grandpa told him he brought it back from ww2
We made the trade at a gun show where I ran into a dealer I know and he thought it was a bring back
Might be broke but still a happy camper :D
http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt263/ronzxcvb/beretta2.jpg
http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt263/ronzxcvb/beretta1.jpg

ronz
June 17, 2012, 03:42 AM
Well think I was right about it being a post war
think it is a model 70
(xxii) so made in 1966
guess that means I dont need to enter it