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Friar Whently
May 8, 2012, 09:51 PM
So I hate to post a scenario, but this is something that I've been wondering about and I can't find a thread on this specific topic.

Say you were in a situation where the use of deadly force was completely justified (let's say the BG has a knife or other weapon) and you drew your carry gun with every intention to use it. As you draw, the BG sees it and turns tail and runs off and the situation is over with no shots fired. Now you must (or at least should) call the police and report the incident. But what do you tell them? Do you tell them you drew your gun and the BG ran off? If you didn't fire it, then they may assume you weren't justified in pulling it in the first place, and if you happen to be talking to police face-to-face, they may try to charge you for brandishing or some such nonsense. I suppose you could leave the scene, call, tell them everything but give them no personal information. Do you not mention the gun? It would sound pretty strange that you were able to make an armed assailant think twice without being armed yourself. Do you try to be vague about what happened?

Any thoughts?

TXAZ
May 8, 2012, 10:17 PM
I've been in a similar situation once. My order of battle is: (and this isn't legal advice and I'm not a lawyer)

1) Don't lie to the cops. If you don't know, say so, but don't guess.

2) See # 1 again. You don't have to say anything, but potential suspects (i.e. you're the only one there, maybe you're the robber?) don't win any cop friends, and it is not uncommon to hear they will often help you if the initial story holds water. As in "...and you were in fear of your life and you drew to stop the threat", correct.

3) The $250 - $500 I spend on an immediate call to my attorney before providing a dissertation to the officers is significantly money better spent than waiting until after with a defense lawyer. He's likely to remind me to tell the officer(s) at a very high level what happened: BG with knife approached, I was startled and in fear, I drew a weapon, BG ran. BG was an orange haired 5-5'6" man in jeans and Tshirt. That I'm currently very shaken, and will provide more details later. That's it other than name & contact info.

4) Don't hide anything like your weapon.

But then this is all hypothetical, right? :)

zxcvbob
May 8, 2012, 10:29 PM
I think it depends a lot on where you are. If you're in Chicago, Philadelphia, or New Orleans, keep your mouth shut, your phone in your pocket, and keep walking.

If you're someplace where you can be fairly certain the bad guy wasn't a moonlighting cop (and his "brothers" will take exception to you drawing on him) of course you mention that he ran away when you drew your gun. (the gun is legal, isn't it?) Your story doesn't make any sense otherwise.

The first one to report the crime is presumed to be the victim. Except for a few cities where anyone with a gun is presumed to be the bad guy in all circumstances.

Frank Ettin
May 8, 2012, 10:52 PM
Report the incident promptly and truthfully.

If the other guy gets on the phone to the police first complaining about the nut job waving a gun at him, you'll start out telling your story in a hole you'll need to climb out of.

pjp74
May 8, 2012, 11:33 PM
I have been in that exact situation about 12-13 years ago, working behind a supermarket in Mobile, AL, on the refrigeration, guy walks up, asks for money. Told him I was broke, he then pulled a knife on me and demanded my wallet. I was able to take a couple of quick steps backwards, at the same time drawing my Kimber, moment bad guy saw gun, he pitched knife in bushes, turned tail and ran. I immediately grabbed up my tools and pulled around front where I would be visible to other people (in case he came back with another weapon or a few buddies) and called the police. Officers said I did nothing wrong and that I was completely within my rights, took my name, address, and brief statement. I haven't heard anything about it since.

egor20
May 8, 2012, 11:37 PM
Frank Ettin


Report the incident promptly and truthfully.

My wife's been involved in 2 incidents involving drawing a weapon, one with no shot being fired. She called the police on the no shots fired and one of reason was the next person might not be armed and not be lucky enough having the BG run away.

moose_nukelz
May 9, 2012, 09:28 AM
Above all else, make sure you tell the dispatcher you are armed and give a description of yourself (height, weight, skin color and clothing). Stay on the phone with the dispatcher and do what they tell you until the responding units arrive. Shouldn't be an problems.

Tom Servo
May 9, 2012, 11:01 AM
If the other guy gets on the phone to the police first complaining about the nut job waving a gun at him, you'll start out telling your story in a hole you'll need to climb out of.
I've been in that exact situation. I reported the incident immediately after it happened. When the police caught up with my assailant several days after the incident, he and his accomplice had gotten their stories straight, which involved crazy me waving a gun and screaming epithets.

Lacking any other evidence, it would have been my word against theirs. One of the biggest factors in my favor was that I'd been the first to report, while the others had never contacted law enforcement at all.

Bailey Boat
May 9, 2012, 04:32 PM
IMHO..... A crime has happened (attempted robbery) and needs to be reported truthfully or it could come back to bite you in the butt. If you don't report it and the BG goes down the block and robs someone else and there is an attack you'll feel bad that you may have prevented it with your report...

Pbearperry
May 9, 2012, 04:56 PM
To pull a firearm to protect yourself and not report it to the Police can be a huge mistake on your part.Fleeing bad guys have called Police to report guns were pulled on them and the good guy ends up looking like a bad guy.

doofus47
May 11, 2012, 10:43 AM
Several reasons to call the police in my rule book:
1. Legal cover: I just pulled my gun; I should report this to the police before some well-meaning but ignorant 3rd party bystander who didn't see the bad guy's weapon does call 911. Then I become a bad guy pulling and waving his pistol in public.
2. Social duty: there's a bad guy out there running loose. This is the very reason we have full-time police. They can run a patrol car through the neighborhood a couple more times a week and maybe catch this yahoo before he assaults my grandma.

I don't have a big rule book.

Skadoosh
May 11, 2012, 10:53 AM
He/she who has their 911 call logged first wins. Generally, this will establish you as the victim/complainant.

Above all, be truthful. But, as with anything in life, only provide enough information needed to answer the question being asked by the authorities.

TLeo
May 11, 2012, 11:42 AM
Why would you not call the police and report a crime attempted against you????? The only reason not to do so would be if you are doing something illegal yourself. If you are carrying legally and would have been justified in using deadly force had the bad guy continued then it would be stupid to not tell the truth. Once you omit or change a fact it will be hard to believe anything else you might say and as another poster said..you don't want a bystander who might not have a clear view calling to report you as the aggressor.

RedBowTies88
May 11, 2012, 12:03 PM
Why would you not call the police and report a crime attempted against you????? The only reason not to do so would be if you are doing something illegal yourself. If you are carrying legally and would have been justified in using deadly force had the bad guy continued then it would be stupid to not tell the truth. Once you omit or change a fact it will be hard to believe anything else you might say and as another poster said..you don't want a bystander who might not have a clear view calling to report you as the aggressor.


There are many municipalities who value criminals rights higher then yours. They will do anything they can to bring you up on charges and try to get you on a technicality for protecting yourself.

OldMarksman
May 11, 2012, 12:35 PM
Posted by RedBowTies88: There are many municipalities who value criminals rights higher then yours. They will do anything they can to bring you up on charges and try to get you on a technicality for protecting yourself.Are you suggesting that having the incident first reported by a bystander or by your assailant is preferable to your being the first to report?

RedBowTies88
May 11, 2012, 12:43 PM
No, just commenting on the train of though that some may have. It's hard for people who live in the real america to understand that view soometimes.

TLeo
May 11, 2012, 01:33 PM
redbowties, I do live in the real world . I have been in law enforcement for 30+ years and seen just about everything and it makes no sense to not report an attempted crime. It seems some one else doesn't live in the real world if one thinks the police are all out to get you.
Paranoid much?

RedBowTies88
May 11, 2012, 02:05 PM
Thats not what I mean at all, when I made reference to "real america" I was making a reference to pro 2A states. Not the mindset of you or anyone else. I have no doubt that you're very much in touch with the real world...all im saying is the same inncident in 2 different states or even different areas of the same state can be and often are treated entirely differently.

in states like this as soon as a prosecuter hears the word gun they're going to try and come after you wether you were right or wrong. If they can nail you with a technicality you bet they will. This is why some people prefer to just pretend it never happened even though realistically they were in the right.

I know that doesn't make sense but when you have law abiding people fearing their goverment this train of thought is the outcome.

(I in no way personally condone not reporting an inccident to the police. just playing devils advocate)

Skadoosh
May 11, 2012, 05:46 PM
RBT88: I'm from the 609 area code of NJ (Willingboro Twp). I am sorry you feel that way, but I completely disagree with your assessment.

Nnobby45
May 11, 2012, 06:22 PM
Report the incident promptly and truthfully.

If the other guy gets on the phone to the police first complaining about the nut job waving a gun at him, you'll start out telling your story in a hole you'll need to climb out of.


I know that Ayoob, whose advice I take to heart, has pointed that out on numerous occasions.

Sometimes just talking to the officers and telling the truth is far better than all the memorized phrases and slick studied lines--especially when you had cause to draw your weapon.:cool:

RedBowTies88
May 11, 2012, 07:05 PM
RBT88: I'm from the 609 area code of NJ (Willingboro Twp). I am sorry you feel that way, but I completely disagree with your assessment.


Again, If it were me I would call asap and tell them everything. I'm just playing devils advocate becuase I could see why someone would want to keep an incident to themselves.

I'm from cape may BTW,... always nice to see fellower 609ers :D

Frank Ettin
May 11, 2012, 07:14 PM
Thats not what I mean at all, when I made reference to "real america" I was making a reference to pro 2A states. .....all im saying is the same inncident in 2 different states or even different areas of the same state can be and often are treated entirely differently...And exactly what evidence do you have to support that assertion? Any actual examples?

Yes, how a situation may be handled could have be affected by the points of view or personal attitudes of the LEOs or officials dealing with the matter, which might or might not be reflective of the prevailing attitudes of the community. Characterizing it as a Blue State vs. Red State thing is overly simplistic. Larry Hickey (http://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/images/stories/Hickey%20Booklet.pdf) and Harold Fish (http://www.haroldfishdefense.org/) had some very tough times in gun friendly Arizona.

...in states like this as soon as a prosecuter hears the word gun they're going to try and come after you wether you were right or wrong. If they can nail you with a technicality you bet they will...Again, what actual evidence do you have?

Lost Sheep
May 12, 2012, 01:12 AM
And exactly what evidence do you have to support that assertion? Any actual examples?

Since you ask,

I recall Meleanie Hain, a soccer mom in Lebanon, PA who had her concealed carry license revoked for carrying openly.
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2008/10/soccer_parents_wince_at_prospe.html

Unfortunately her story was overshadowed by her later murder at the hands of her husband. But the judge who ordered the Sheriff to restore her concealed carry permit found the Sheriff's action without merit.

I recall Brad Krause's story (sorry, I cannot locate any details, but I followed the story for a few months) who was taken into custody from his own front yard because he had a holstered revolver openly and legally carrying. A neighbor called the police to find out if it was legal. Police showed up and took him away. It took a while for the charges to be dismissed (disorderly conduct, which the defense and the judge found to be an egregious misuse of police authority and prosecutorial misconduct). It took several more months to get his gun back and when he did it was coated with an unidentifiable substance. Basically ruined the finish.

By the way, the neighbor testified on the guy's behalf.

edit: found a link to the story
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2843410/posts

This link connects to a story from Canada, but it does show the alarm some people have at even the thought of a gun.

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/canada/archives/2012/02/20120224-095016.html

There was this student who so alarmed his professor with a class assignment that he was called into the Campus Police office from his part-time job and grilled over what firearms he owned. The Campus Police even had a list of them already (which he kept at his home in another state).
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,504524,00.html
http://www.conservativecrusader.com/articles/professor-calls-police-on-student-supporter-of-2nd-amendment

Professor Calls Police on Student Supporter of 2nd Amendment

by: warner todd huston | published: 03 05, 2009

The assignment for Central Connecticut State University student John Walberg and his two classmates was to give an oral presentation on a "relevant issue in the media." The three chose school violence for their topic.

After the oral presentation was over, professor Paula Anderson of Communication 140, promptly filed a complaint with the CCSU Police against student Wahlberg claiming he made students "scared and uncomfortable." Professor Anderson deemed Wahlberg a "perceived risk" and felt it was her duty to "protect" her class.

Abuse of power under color of authority is a danger in any society, less so in a democracy, but it does exist. We (as are our police) are human, with all the human frailties that entails.

Of course we only get some of the story from the internet and the news, but these and other stories seem to support the contention that there are some places where having a gun brings an unreasonable assumption of "badness", even among those who should know better.

Lost Sheep

Frank Ettin
May 12, 2012, 01:33 AM
...Since you ask,...Yes, but those were isolated incidents and not related to a particular defensive use of the gun.

RedBowTies88 said:...in states like this as soon as a prosecuter hears the word gun they're going to try and come after you wether you were right or wrong. If they can nail you with a technicality you bet they will...The statement was a broad, sweeping statement to the effect that certain undesirable actions will always be taken in certain States in response to a defensive gun use, even if no shots are fired (that is the subject of this thread).

Yes, sometimes officials overreact or act improperly. They do so in connection with matters that don't involve guns as well as matters that do involve guns.

But a categorical statement that in some States (or regions) the lawful defensive use of a gun will generally be met with official overreaching is simply inaccurate.

Lost Sheep
May 12, 2012, 01:50 AM
Yes, but those were isolated incidents and not related to a particular defensive use of the gun.
Point well taken. But aren't all statistical samplings composed of individual incidents?

...in states like this as soon as a prosecuter hears the word gun they're going to try and come after you wether you were right or wrong. If they can nail you with a technicality you bet they will...

The statement was a broad, sweeping statement to the effect that certain undesirable actions will always be taken in certain States in response to a defensive gun use, even if no shots are fired (that is the subject of this thread).
True, RBT may have been hyperbolic. But where one person in a group feels empowered to go beyond his or her authority, the suspicion that there is an atmosphere of permissiveness or even support for whatever bias exists in that individual.

I don't mean to paint all with a brush applicable to individual rogues. But some alarm bells must be going off in your mind when you see individual incidents like these?

The incidents I cited didn't involve use of a gun. They merely involved the existence (and in Brad Krause's case the defense of privately owned firearms and the Canadian case, a drawing).

These reports make me a little uneasy. Don't they do the same to you?

Lost Sheep

edit: P.S. I apologize for contributing to thread drift. What one reports to police after defensive use of a firearm that involved no shots fired is a bit off topic to my focus. But i do think about what police might assume about me due to the mere fact that I carry. I did not think it was a tangential subject too wide of the O.P's question.

Frank Ettin
May 12, 2012, 02:05 AM
...These reports make me a little uneasy. Don't they do the same to you?...Of course they do, and for a variety of reasons some of which go far beyond the topic of this thread.

But for our purposes here, the thing is that in any human interaction there is always the possibility of an aberrant response. But the mere possibility of such response is not a good reason to forebear from doing the right thing.

And of course, in the real world no matter what we're talking about it is always a good practice to (1) know and understand the applicable law; (2) conduct yourself in a way that conforms to applicable law; and (3) do the right thing in an intelligent, thoughtful, careful and controlled way. If we approach things that way, even if we get an aberrant response we'll be best able to deal with it successfully.

Lost Sheep
May 12, 2012, 03:00 AM
...These reports make me a little uneasy. Don't they do the same to you?...
Of course they do, and for a variety of reasons some of which go far beyond the topic of this thread.

But for our purposes here, the thing is that in any human interaction there is always the possibility of an aberrant response. But the mere possibility of such response is not a good reason to forebear from doing the right thing.

And of course, in the real world no matter what we're talking about it is always a good practice to (1) know and understand the applicable law; (2) conduct yourself in a way that conforms to applicable law; and (3) do the right thing in an intelligent, thoughtful, careful and controlled way. If we approach things that way, even if we get an aberrant response we'll be best able to deal with it successfully.
Agreed, Frank.

And if we don't do the right thing, we let such aberrant behavior slide and get worse. (But no one wants to be the test case, right?)

Standing up to a mugger is often done with force or the threat of force (and can be scary). Standing up for rights is no less scary sometimes, but we owe it to ourselves to do it. (aside from the general moral responsibility to report crimes and attempted crimes)

We often don't think of the "after action" activities of reporting to police or even just returning home as requiring tactics and training. But they do.

Lost Sheep

ltc444
May 12, 2012, 05:30 PM
Concur with TXAZ. Treat the drawing the same way you would if you had actually fired.

It also depends on the Jurisdiction you are located in. In my case, if I were involved in an incident in Paul Babeu's jurisdiction in Pinal County AZ I would call 911 report the incident and then call my attorney. His advice is to inform them I am shook up and will schedule an "Interview" at a later time.

If the incident occurred in my home county, Apache County, I would speak freely as i am not on the Sheriff's enemy's list.

Wagonman
May 12, 2012, 09:11 PM
Since I live and police in a non CCW state I shouldn't opine about things I don't have knowledge of... But, when did that ever stop me.

Report the crime and your response to it. Lying even by omission will bite you in the bottom. Doesn't have to be a disposition just a sketch of facts in case it goes anyplace.... Lotsa stating of fear for my life and threats made and weapons displayed by offender would be in my report.

If you were right to use deadly force you were right to draw.

RedBowTies88
May 22, 2012, 09:32 AM
Sorry I forgot about this thread for a while but I just saw this and it reminded me of it.

And exactly what evidence do you have to support that assertion? Any actual examples?

http://www.northjersey.com/news/crime_courts/Cops_charge_allegded_robber__as_well_as_boyfriend_who_came_to_victims_aid.html

Could you imagine what he would be charged with if he came out with a gun? even if he didn't shoot the guy...

Willie Sutton
May 22, 2012, 09:51 AM
To defend my compatriot from Cape May (greetings cousin!), let me interject this:

In NJ, where I lived for years, posession of a firearm outside of your own propery is a crime unless you are directly transporting to or from a shooting range. No exceptions. If you ever use one to defend yourself, you WILL be arrested and prosecuted as a criminal. No exceptions. Those NJ residents who participate in civil disobediance and carry for defense in contravention of the law are already felons.. albeit ones who have made the calculus decision to accept trial by 12 rather than transport by 6 if they need to defend themselves. NONE of them will be picking up the phone to report that they have drawn on a bad guy who then ran... they will simply be hoping against hope that they can withdraw without anyone noticing. I daresay that most "disobediant" (IE: "Criminal" if you want to use the correct term) carriers in NJ would not even bother calling 911 after shooting a bad guy... even if other than their decision to violate the carry laws they are saints: Makes no difference if their defense was justified under defensive use of force laws: For the mere carriage of what they then lawfully used they will go to jail, no if's and's or but's. They would likely attempt to disengage and dissapear... alive and still scared of what the state will try to do to them. It's sad but true. There is NO rapport between the law and firearms owners in NJ.


This mindset is so ingrained into the NJ shooting community that members of same have a complete and utter distrust of law enforcement policies in regards to firearms. Nobody with any sense in NJ draws any attention to themselves regarding firearms in any way, whatsoever. Not at home, work, play, or anywhere else.

It really *is* another world there.


Willie

.

RedBowTies88
May 22, 2012, 10:04 AM
To defend my compatriot from Cape May (greetings cousin!), let me interject this:

In NJ, where I lived for years, posession of a firearm outside of your own propery is a crime unless you are directly transporting to or from a shooting range. No exceptions. If you ever use one to defend yourself, you WILL be arrested and prosecuted as a criminal. No exceptions. Those NJ residents who participate in civil disobediance and carry for defense in contravention of the law are already felons.. albeit ones who have made the calculus decision to accept trial by 12 rather than transport by 6 if they need to defend themselves. NONE of them will be picking up the phone to report that they have drawn on a bad guy who then ran... they will simply be hoping agaist hope that they can withdraw without anyone noticing. I daresay that most "disobediant" (IE: Feloneous) carriers in NJ would not even bother calling 911 after shooting a bad guy... even if other than their decision to violate the carry laws they are saints: Makes no difference if their defense was justified under defensive use of force laws, for the mere carriage of what they then lawfully used they will go to jail, no if's and's or but's. They would likely attempt to disengage and dissapear... sad but true.


This mindset is so ingrained into the NJ shooting community that members of same have a complete and utter distrust of law enforcement policies in regards to firearms. Nobody with any sense in NJ draws any attention to themselves regarding firearms in any way, whatsoever. Not at home, work, play, or anywhere else.

It really *is* another world there.


Willie

Appreciate the post Wille. Most people who have never experianced what it is like in a place like this will never understand what it is really like, and quite frankly I can't blame them. It's very hard to devolope an understanding of something that does not make sense in any way shape or form.

People in free America like to think that this is indeed a free a country and that the goverment isn't out to prosecute you. However the sad truth is that sometimes yes, they are.

Again I in no way condone or advocate the actions described by myself and Mr. Sutton. However to understand the mindset of those who do you really must live/have lived in a place like for some time. Walk a mile in someone elses shoes and all that jazz....

Willie Sutton
May 22, 2012, 12:21 PM
"Appreciate the post Wille. Most people who have never experianced what it is like in a place like this will never understand what it is really like, and quite frankly I can't blame them. It's very hard to devolope an understanding of something that does not make sense in any way shape or form"



The reciprocal of that is that somone like me who lived in NJ for decades, grew to the age of majority there, and tried to enjoy shooting there as a hobby, is essentially "scarred for life" in regards to their worldview of the way the police and prosecutors will deal with firearms in other venues. I'm VERY glad to be living elsewhere, enjoying my rights as a citizen (for the first time in 50 years, I might add), have my CCW, carry daily, and yet... still.... I feel a sense of "guilt" for the lack of a better word when I see a police cruiser out of the corner of my eye. Being trained with aversion therapy for decades is not something that is easy to lose.

NJ is a place where you have exactly the firearms rights that the police and the prosecutors office say you have... not more and not less. The 2nd Amendment of the Constitution of our Republic is a joke there. Shoot a bad guy IN YOUR HOUSE and the first thought of most of the people there would be "How the hell do I get this dead criminal outta here and into the meadowlands without anyone seeing me"...... because you WILL be charged and harassed and life will become a nightmare for you. Do this on the street... well, you may live, but you're going away for a long-long time. We have people in prison in NJ for shooting a pigeon with a BB gun out of their window: It's a felony there.

I never knew anyone who actually carried in contravention of the law here, and I certainly never did. Heck, I felt like a damned criminal just driving to the range with a .22 in my trunk. I'm sure some do... but not many.


Willie

.

Frank Ettin
May 22, 2012, 12:33 PM
...http://www.northjersey.com/news/crime_courts/Cops_charge_allegded_robber__as_well_as_boyfriend_who_came_to_victims_aid.html

Could you imagine what he would be charged with if he came out with a gun? even if he didn't shoot the guy... Actually, no.

According to the article you linked to, the boyfriend was arrested after he:...pummeled Johnston, fracturing bones and causing serious injuries to his face and head....

If one beats up someone else causing those types of injuries, he can probably expect to be arrested. He might claim self defense or defense of another, but all that will have to be sorted out later. An arrest is often the first step.

RedBowTies88
May 22, 2012, 12:34 PM
The reciprocal of that is that somone like me who lived in NJ for decades, grew to the age of majority there, and tried to enjoy shooting there as a hobby, is essentially "scarred for life" in regards to their worldview of the way the police and prosecutors will deal with firearms in other venues. I'm VERY glad to be living elsewhere, enjoying my rights as a citizen (for the first time in 50 years, I might add), have my CCW, carry daily, and yet... still.... I feel a sense of "guilt" for the lack of a better word when I see a police cruiser out of the corner of my eye. Being trained with aversion therapy for decades is not something that is easy to lose.

NJ is a place where you have exactly the firearms rights that the police and the prosecutors office say you have... not more and not less. The 2nd Amendment of the Constitution of our Republic is a joke there. Shoot a bad guy IN YOUR HOUSE and the first thought of most of the people there would be "How the hell do I get this dead criminal outta here and into the meadowlands without anyone seeing me"...... because you WILL be charged and harassed and life will become a nightmare for you. Do this on the street... well, you may live, but you're going away for a long-long time. We have people in prison in NJ for shooting a pigeon with a BB gun out of their window: It's a felony there.

I never knew anyone who actually carried in contravention of the law here, and I certainly never did. Heck, I felt like a damned criminal just driving to the range with a .22 in my trunk. I'm sure some do... but not many.


Willie


I haven't thats for sure... but I'll be honest and sometimes I do think about it. I almost grabbed my carry piece on the way out the door today after hearing about the 47 and 80 year old female tourists that were stabbed to death yesterday in AC in broad daylight. Hearing about such instances just make your blood boil knowing that those people didn't have a snowballs chance in hell of protecting themselves.

I would rather walk around all day in the worst parts of philly (while carrying thanks to my UT permit) then just drive through Camden on the way to jury duty:(

Frank Ettin
May 23, 2012, 01:11 PM
Just to remind everyone, this thread is about reporting a defensive gun use in which shots weren't fired. It's not about New Jersey.

Let's get back on topic please.

gvw3
May 24, 2012, 11:41 AM
I think you should do the report if you can. I live in Cook County Illinois. I can guarantee if you called this in in this state you would lose all your guns and your state licence to own them.

I don't carry a gun as it is not legal in this state. Only the bad guys get to carry in this state.

9mm
May 24, 2012, 01:37 PM
Call 911 tell that a person(s) tried to commit x crime on you, give info to where person(s) went running off to, his clothing, height etc...


I don't carry a gun as it is not legal in this state. Only the bad guys get to carry in this state.


I would leave

m&p45acp10+1
May 24, 2012, 02:26 PM
Both times that I had to draw my weapon law enforcement was called. I simply told them what happened. They checked my CHL, took a repoert, had me fill out a statement. Then returned my gun, and sent me on my way.

Shots were not fired on either occasion. Cops looked for suspects afterwards, and told me I would be notified if they found them. I have not heard anything back since.

9mm
May 24, 2012, 02:47 PM
have not heard anything back since When did this happen?

Bernie Lomax
May 24, 2012, 04:56 PM
As fate would have it, I was in a situation just like this just a few months ago. The only words out of my mouth were "I want my attorney." The officers then went on their way and I've not heard anything from my local LEA since.

m&p45acp10+1
May 24, 2012, 08:47 PM
9mm I have not herd back from them on the two incidents. Both happened several years ago. One was a guy with a bad case of road rage. The other were some guys triangulating me at night. The second was in an area where two other people that worked for the same company had been robbed. Both described similar situations happened before they were robbed.

PawPaw
May 25, 2012, 04:38 AM
Interesting responses, based mainly on locale.

I'm a cop from Louisiana and have been behind the badge for over 30 years. Louisiana is a gun-friendly state, to the point where I assume that half the people I interact with are carrying a gun, either on their person or in their vehicle.

Let me state for the record that in 30 years of practice, I have never had a problem with a law-abiding citizen carrying a gun. On the occasions where someone reports a crime and tell me that they pointed a gun at the offender, I ask the question "Did you shoot him?" That lets me know if I'm looking for a wounded offender, and to check the hospital emergency rooms. I'll ask basic information to complete my report, but I will not ask to see the firearm. Just whether the gun was a long gun, a handgun, dark or stainless, that sort of question to help me complete the report. "He pointed a shotgun at the offender and told him to leave the premises immediately."

I remember one little old lady who was known to carry a cap-and-ball revolver under the seat of her car. She pointed it at a fellow one day and he nearly crapped himself when she thumb-cocked the hammer.

But, the responses from the folks in less gun-friendly states is illuminating. I've never run into that mindset. Yeah, there are folks here who don't like the police, and cringe when they see a cruiser in their rear-view mirror, but that's based on traffic tickets, not 2A issues.

zukiphile
May 25, 2012, 10:07 AM
Interesting responses, based mainly on locale.

On the nose.

That doesn't even mean that if you live in NJ or Chicago and you have an interaction with local police that it will necessarily turn out badly. I believe we are less likely to hear about contacts that don't generate a problem. I worked in a rather anti-gun city, but I know many POs who wouldn't give anyone a problem for carrying, even before legal permits, unless the person was engaged in some other crime.

However, in these places one doesn't know which sort of individual a PO will be until he has that contact.

But, the responses from the folks in less gun-friendly states is illuminating. I've never run into that mindset. Yeah, there are folks here who don't like the police, and cringe when they see a cruiser in their rear-view mirror, but that's based on traffic tickets, not 2A issues.


Emphasis added. I note this because it is true and funny.

I am a middle aged man and suburban homeowner. I am bald and boring and ooze stability; POs don't see me as a problem and my interactions with them typically reflect that. However, when I was 17 and thought the only correct position for a gas pedal was all the way down, the police viewed me with appropriate suspicion.

When I see a car running radar, I still instinctively lift the pedal and think "Oh ****!". For a split second, I forget that I am no longer 13 and driving illegally. I wonder how old a fellow needs to get to shake that reflex.

jgcoastie
May 25, 2012, 11:17 AM
I drew down on a guy once while I was stationed in Kodiak. My daughter was very young at the time and I had her in a backpack carrier while I was fishing (Mrs. JGCoastie needed a break, from both of us I presume).

Long story short, the guy made several threats against me and my daughter because she was being louder than he liked (yeah, small children make noise, whouldathunkit?). He started stomping towards me telling me he would shut that little @#$%! up one way or another and I drew. I wasn't about to get in a fistfight with my daughter strapped to my back...

I drew down, yelled at him a couple times, and he stopped, turned, and ran to his vehicle. Several bystanders called the State Troopers and MILPOL (joint jurisdiction area). The officers from both agencies took my statement and description of the guy, talked to all the bystanders (one had written down the license plate number of the guy), and then they left.

I was open-carrying at the time and not a single one of them asked me for my gun or asked to look at it. The only time they mentioned it was after I asked them what they wanted me to do with it.... They said to just leave it holstered and that would be fine with them...

Gotta love Alaska.:cool:

Willie Sutton
May 25, 2012, 04:35 PM
"When I see a car running radar, I still instinctively lift the pedal and think "Oh ****!". For a split second, I forget that I am no longer 13 and driving illegally. I wonder how old a fellow needs to get to shake that reflex"



Never... it's operant conditioning. Same reason I freeze for a second and think "holy cow, there's a cop and I'm carrying a pistol" even with my CCW firmly in hand.

Once we are trained to "feel guilty" it stays forever.


PawPaw... that was a superb post. The thing is that guys from down there (I lived in Houma for a while BTW) don't feel a twinge of guilt about carrying a pistol in their car. Pull them over in NJ as they pass thru and they don't have any hesitation about saying with all innocence "sure officer, I've got my pistol *right here*" and then get hauled directly to jail. It happens about once a year, or at least makes the papers once a year or so.



Willie

.

ltc444
May 25, 2012, 10:19 PM
Drawing is effectively the same as drawing and firing. Report immediately, Call attorney and respond the same as if you had fired.

1. in fear for my life.
2. shook up
3. Conduct interview later when you are coherent.

PawPaw
May 26, 2012, 08:04 AM
PawPaw... that was a superb post. The thing is that guys from down there (I lived in Houma for a while BTW) don't feel a twinge of guilt about carrying a pistol in their car. Pull them over in NJ as they pass thru and they don't have any hesitation about saying with all innocence "sure officer, I've got my pistol *right here*" and then get hauled directly to jail. It happens about once a year, or at least makes the papers once a year or so.

Thanks, but that's the point, it's all based on locale. In New Jersey, evidently, it's against the law to carry a gun in your car. (Not bashing NJ, just sayin'). Here in Louisiana the vehicle is considered an extension of the home, therefore having a gun in your car is an absolute constitutional right. They teach us that in the police academy, whatever you can do in your home you can do in your car. SO, folks in Louisiana are ingrained with that in our heads. If I were driving thru another state and a cop asked.... Well, just last year I was driving thru Georgia and a cop stopped us. He asked if we had any guns in the car. I had to count on my fingers for a moment and told him "Yeah, four." H just shook his head and laughed.

I'm really saddened that my badge-toting brethren in other states hassle people over what I consider a constitutional right, an iron-clad constitutional right. But I blame that on The People. If The People want iron-clad constitutional rights you've got to work for them, you've got to agitate for them, you've got to politic for them and you've got to be smart about it. But, you've got to get The People on your side. That's the American way.

Aguila Blanca
May 27, 2012, 03:46 PM
Report the incident promptly and truthfully.

If the other guy gets on the phone to the police first complaining about the nut job waving a gun at him, you'll start out telling your story in a hole you'll need to climb out of.
Agreed.

"Police? I am at [location]. I was just assaulted by a [description] male/female who threatened me with a [weapon]. I have a license to carry and I displayed my carry gun, at which point the assailant ran away. What would you like me to do?"

Aguila Blanca
May 27, 2012, 03:56 PM
And exactly what evidence do you have to support that assertion? Any actual examples?
Since you ask,

I recall Meleanie Hain, a soccer mom in Lebanon, PA who had her concealed carry license revoked for carrying openly.
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/ind...at_prospe.html

Unfortunately her story was overshadowed by her later murder at the hands of her husband. But the judge who ordered the Sheriff to restore her concealed carry permit found the Sheriff's action without merit.

Bad example.

Melanie's license was not revoked for drawing a firearm in self defense but not shooting. Her license was revoked because she practiced open carry (which was -- and is -- legal in Pennsylvania where she lived) and had the chutzpah to do so at her daughter's soccer game. Some other soccer mom got her knickers in a twist and complained to the sheriff, who got his knickers in a twist and pulled her license. Fortunately, the court spanked the sheriff and her license was restored.

Her case had nothing to do with the topic of discussion in this thread.

The irony was that PA allows unlicensed open carry (except in Philadelphia), so the net effect of revoking her license was to make it illegal for her to carry any other way EXCEPT open carry. I think her county's sheriff was hiding behind the door the day brains were handed out.

giaquir
May 27, 2012, 04:07 PM
Massachusetts!

"We don't encourage self-help"
-Martha Coakley-

bigalshootmupper
May 27, 2012, 08:39 PM
I will try to keep it one topic - I would report it, I live in GA, but I understand why others would hesitate to report. I work in a large corporation, used to work with 1000+ people from all over the world. Because I talk with many people, really talk to them about the rights of protection with firearms, you would be surprised how many people feel you shouldn't have a firearm to protect yourself. These people I talk to say that because you have a firearm, that you are the one who is making it too easy for people to use force upon others. I tell them that I have never used force on others and only carry to protect myself and my family. They say that there are too many guns in American and it is because of me that there is crime in America. If the majority of people feel that I am the cause of all of this crime, then I, too, would feel a little uneasy announcing to the world that I used my big bad weapon to defend myself. I should feel proud that I stood up to this evil that chooses to use these weapons to further their gain illegally, but knowing that there are a large group that want all people disarmed, including people like me and you, yes, I can see how you may not want to put on a police report that you carry a loaded weapon that can instantly kill someone. All I am trying to do is keep myself protected to the full extent of the law.

Frank Ettin
May 27, 2012, 10:40 PM
...If the majority of people feel that I am the cause of all of this crime, then I, too, would feel a little uneasy announcing to the world that I used my big bad weapon to defend myself....You're not announcing anything to the world. Your reporting to the police that you were the victim of a threat and that you lawfully and justifiably defended yourself. And you are doing so because it's your civic duty to report criminal conduct (the other guy's) and to head off and minimize the risk of a false accusation being made against you.