PDA

View Full Version : M30 Broomhandle, Need Some Help


gjw
April 18, 2012, 07:48 AM
Hi all, I just pruchased a Model 30 Broomhandle. The SN is 8137XX. The gun is chambered for 9x19mm and the grip has the Red 9.

I understand that the SN places it within the contract order for China.

My question is: Were these Models supplied in 9mm to China?

Any comments or info are welcome!

Thanks so much!

Greg

meatgrinder42
April 18, 2012, 08:11 AM
It's a Chinese Contract pistol. The model thirty was kicked off by a 150,000 unit order to china. And all the Chinese M30s were in 9mm. Got pictures? I love these pistols. :D

The Red nine on the grip was because beforehand C96 pistols were chambered in 7.63 Mauser. The '9' on the grip was a reminder to the operator that it was not to be loaded with the 7.63 and was infact the 9mm. They pumped these into the German Army to offset the slow production of the extremely intricate P08.

4V50 Gary
April 18, 2012, 08:58 AM
Export Model 1930s had Made in Germany stamped in Chinese characters on the left side of the magazine well. Other Model 1930s bear Norwgian acceptance marks. Those imported to the US bear, "A. F. Stoeger Inc., Sole U.S. Agents" on top of the barrel.

Information was from page 144 of System Mauser by Breathed & Shroeder.

gjw
April 18, 2012, 10:28 AM
Thanks guys, don't have any pics yet, I'll post some when I get it. There are no Chinese markings on it however. Looks like it never got there.

Thanks gain!!!!

Greg

gyvel
April 18, 2012, 08:13 PM
It's possible that it's a relined/rebored barrel.

kilimanjaro
April 18, 2012, 08:48 PM
Lots of the 1930 models were 'restored' by replacing worn parts and lining the barrel in 9mm Parabellum. The Red 9 grips were done for the WWI Prussian contract to the German Army, and on later pistols should be considered add-ons. Have it checked by a gunsmith carefully, lots of the replacement parts are Chinese steel, poorly tempered. You don't want a soft, malleable bolt stop or sear in any pistol.

Not to say these things can't be fun shooters, but get it checked out and also get some strippers and a spring set.

James K
April 18, 2012, 09:04 PM
"And all the Chinese M30s were in 9mm."

I wonder if a source can be cited for that. AFAIK, and every source I have checked indicates, few (if any) 1930 models were made in 9mm Parabellum and none of those reported were/are in the Chinese contract serial range. However, thousands of standard 7.63mm guns were imported from China before politics cut off importation and many were rebored or rebarrelled to take the 9mm P. cartridge, often with fake Red 9 grips installed as well.

One indication is the rear sight leaf, which on the "Red 9" pistols was graduated to 500 meters, while that for standard 7.63mm pistols was graduated to 1000 meters.

While those fake "Red 9's" are perfectly good shooters*, they have little collector value, so anyone buying a broomhandle should do enough research to be sure he is getting fair value for his money.

*Assuming they have not been weakened by aggressive rust removal, and that the springs have been replaced.

Jim

gjw
April 18, 2012, 11:55 PM
Thanks all, I've learned a lot so far. The gun will be here next week, so I'll have more to report.

I kind of think that it's rebored. The previous owner, has shot the gun with no problems at all.

I have a feeling that she'll make a good shooter, it's not a collector piece, but will work for me and my boys!

Thanks again!!!!!

Greg

gjw
April 19, 2012, 12:00 AM
Forgot to ask, if this is a reworked M30, what's a fair price for one? I'd say it's in about 90% condition.

Thanks again!!!!

Greg

madcratebuilder
April 19, 2012, 07:57 AM
While those fake "Red 9's" are perfectly good shooters*, they have little collector value, so anyone buying a broomhandle should do enough research to be sure he is getting fair value for his money.

This!

Shooter grade used to run around $500 but I'm not current on the C96 market. You can still get the barrels relined, it's a fairly affordable operation.

Many of these were restored, reblued back in the 50's and now 60+ years later they can appear to be original with very minor wear. Inspect a collector grade very close. I see reblues passed off as original often.

Ever numbered part must match, stocks are numbered to the pistol.


A forerunner to your "Red 9" this 1916 Wartime Commercial, This variant is distinguished by the first appearance of the New Safety. It superseded the Prewar Commercial, perhaps as early as 1912. The war didn't start until August 1914, but this variant is called the Wartime Commercial nonetheless. It is identical to the Prewar Commercial (the later variety with six rifling grooves), except for a few changes -

* New Safety
* "NS" monogram added to back of hammer
* Hammer milling changed for New Safety
* Solid safety lever knob (no hole)
* 50-1000 meter tangent sight, without "900" meter mark. Most Prewar Commercials have sights with the "900" mark


The Wartime Commercial can be easily distinguished from the Prewar Commercial by the hammer, which is marked on the back with an intertwined NS monogram, and the safety lever knob. The only internal change is to the hammer. The number of grooves in the grip panels continues to vary.

The authors of System Mauser note serial 290090 as the lowest number Wartime Commercial they'd seen. However, my database has one with a much lower number - presenting serial 232232, a Wartime Commercial in all respects (New Safety, 30-groove grips, tangent sight without a "900" mark, etc).

System Mauser gives an observed high serial of 433900 for Wartime Commercials. My own database lists Wartime Commercials up to 426651.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/c96001cased.jpg

James K
April 19, 2012, 11:15 PM
I don't think there is enough "meat" in the 7.63mm barrel to actually reline them, even to 7.63mm. The conversion to 9mm was done in one of two ways: 1) the barrel was rebored, rerifled and rechambered, or, if the barrel was really bad inside and out, 2) it was cut off just ahead of the receiver, the stump bored out, and a 9mm barrel inserted and soldered in. The barrel at the front sight was reamed out, leaving a barrel band which was then soldered onto the new barrel. Done well, those look very good, and it is hard to spot the joints once the guns are reblued.

Jim

madcratebuilder
April 20, 2012, 08:17 AM
A 7.63 reline costs about $150+ and a bore to 9mm is about $300. There are still a few shops the offer this service. Redmanrifleing does great work.

James K
April 20, 2012, 01:30 PM
Thanks, madcratebuilder. I would have thought the liner for a high pressure round would have to be too thick, but I guess it depends on the definition of "reline"; the thin liners used for .22 and BP era cartridges usually can't be used with high pressures because they warp.

Jim

ronz
April 20, 2012, 07:09 PM
So $500-$600 would be a good price for a shooter grade gun? Any repos or ones to avoid?
I don’t want to completely jack the thread but a broomhandle has always been on my list just never made it up to the top

James K
April 20, 2012, 09:26 PM
Decent broomhandles in shootable condition will usually run at least $1200 and most will go for more than that. The Chinese imports vary from shootable to reworked and overpriced junk. Few were in good shape and the importers immediately skimmed those for high price sales. The rest were badly rusted and in varied degrees of disrepair. Most of those got a wire wheel cleanup, a quick reblue job and new made grips.

As we have been saying here, some were converted to 9mm with fake "Red 9" grips and sold with descriptions of the genuine Red 9 (WWI German Army contract guns), even though the Chinese guns never got anywhere near the German Army or WWI. (It was the same kind of pitch Mitchell's Mausers used to make the Yugo M48 sound like a German K.98k, pure baloney and hype.)

Jim

ronz
April 20, 2012, 11:23 PM
Thanks didn’t think I would be able to get one that worked for so cheap
just because it was rebarreled and the collector’s value was ruined

kilimanjaro
April 25, 2012, 10:54 PM
Call me crazy, but in my opinion the Mauser Broomhandle is such an iconic pistol, it is collectible in any configuration, from early C96 and pristine Prussians, to the Chinese rebuilds and rebores. There is something available to fit the pocketbook of every 'collector' who would love to have one. Just make sure to have it inspected and be sure to acquire spare springs and such.

mete
April 26, 2012, 12:34 AM
Didn't the Chinese have some in 45acp or is my memory off ?
I think they liked that gun because it's like a Chinese puzzle.

The C96 was the first 'reliable' auto pistol .

4V50 Gary
April 26, 2012, 05:17 AM
The Chinese shensi arsenal did indeed make a 45 ACP version of the Broomhandle. I wish I had bought one when they were $995.

BTW, I think the double stacked magazine was introduced with the C96.